I've just about decided I can get by with a wheeled skid. I have read where New Holland requires a cab jack to lift the cab for access? Is this true for all of the skid manufactures or does this just apply to New Holland's? I know for sure their older versions (LS?) needed a jack, but I'm not sure about the newer L series. I was interested in a New Holland L190. I have read they are like $800.00 plus? Also, does New Holland come with pilot controls? And if so, when did they start making them? And would a grapple be difficult to run with a New Holland? How would it differ running a grapple with a New Holland vs ,say, a Cat? I would have a root grapple on it 98% of the time. I appreciate all the help. I have been back and forth with this like forever now, lol. I'm getting there, though, and do appreciate all the help you can give me. Thanks! PS I'm limited to Cat, Deere and New Holland as I don't have any other dealer support for any other machine in my area.
cat has never needed a jack, they use gas shock assist with a lock in the up position. Cat was first to have joysticks . All cats are joystick operated. I think to get joystick in any other brand you need to go fairly late model.
New Holland started pilots (which is what I believe you are referring to when talking about joysticks) in 06. There would be no difference in running a grapple with a NH or any other machine. The longer wheel base on the NH allows for a somewhat better ride and perhaps a better ROC if your moving a lot of material with a grapple. The Deere and the older NH have about the same lifting geometry. I did not know NH required a jack to lift the cab. CASE on many models prior to the latest had a no tool cab lift system. You rotate two locking levers and pull the cab over the front wheels.
Thank you for the replies. I would have to do most of the work/maintenance myself so would like easy access to the underside of cab. I don't even know what's down under there and don't know if I really need access to that area or not. I know there is a place in the rear, too. Is that where all the filters are? And what components are under the cab? I just read where folks with the LS series New Hollands were having to either borrow or buy the jacks for the cabs. Some people had figured out a way to do it with a chain hoist and come along. The New Hollands seems to be a better buy than the others, used. The Cats seem to be just out of my range. It would be nice if I could find a decent NH L90, but I just need to better understand about the cab and whether I need access to the area or not. Hey appreciate the help once again. I hope I'm not getting on any nerves.
http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9797359 Here the machine I was interested in. As always I think it is over priced. Seems that's the way it is in this area. Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this machine.
You will want access to the area under the cab. All kinds of debris can accumulate not to mention the ocassional need to service components. I do not use the jack for my New Holland skids because I have other equipment that can lift and tilt the cab. To be honest I havent "needed" to tilt the cab that I can remember but it does make some services much easier. Looking at the link to the machine on Machinery Trader it is a very nice machine. I havent looked closely at the L190 but it should be a solid machine. If I were going to spend 30K on a new to me machine it would have tracks instead of tires.
You are thinking Excavators ….. Not Skidsteers ……. Cat got into the Skidsteer way late compared to all of the other big players ….. Case I believe was the first to have full hand controls when Bcat and the others still used foot & hand control combo's …..
Thank you, frogfarmer. Do you think the asking price is fair for a wheeled machine with enclosed rops, under 700+ hrs and '08 model? Of course I am always looking to talk that price down if I can. I too would love a track machine, but my wallet just won't allow it. This will be for private property use. I will not be making any profits so trying to keep operating costs down. Thank you for your reply!
Nope. I'm for sure talking Skid Steers. Cat has always had joystick controls. As far as I know they were the first with full pilot controls
Still looking to get some opinions on that L90 machine in the link I provided. I was planning on looking at it tomorrow if I got enough positive feedback. I'm relying on your expertise! Is it worth looking at? I noticed the bucket seems to NOT match the age of the machine. Don't know why.
I am not a NH owner, but I would say that a decent deal for you on this machine would be 25-27K. I would not sweat the bucket. It sounds like the guy trades pretty often as I do. I will run a bucket through several machines to save having to buy a bucket on a new machine. When a bucket starts to get worn out or bent up I will trade the bucket with a machine that is getting replaced. The machine looks well taken care of. The foam filled rear tires look like they squat a bit on the rear where all the weight is. It is loosing some ground clearance, perhaps may not be an issue for you but it doesn't look right. When it comes time to replace those tires I would go with a set of Hulks either in 12X16.5 or you can put the larger 14's on that machine. It could be speced from the factory either way. The larger tires give you some additional floatation. The L-4 or 5's (Hulk type tire)cost more but well worth it. You don't have high flow so as long as you don't want to run a mulcher, planer, or other high flow attachments you should be all right. I believe the gpm on the aux. flow should be around 22 gpm.
My Deere CT322 has a gas shock system of some sort... it worked at first, but 1200 hrs in, and 3 or 4 cab lifts later, it no longer works. Also, the closed cab shroud configuration makes it virtually impossible to lift the cab if the bucket is not raised, which poses a pretty serious problem when something keeps the machine from being operational, and the cab needs to be raised to fix it. I have no experience with New Holland, but my mechanic swears they are the best skid steer.
I think the misunderstanding is the term "joystick". CASE has been hand controls since the beginning, which is a joystick especially when compared to the hand/foot controls of the other machines available for decades. The hyd pilot controls were first brought to the market by Takeuchi I believe. Bobcat has had hand controls for years as well, but they went to EH without ever using hyd pilot controls as did Deere. CAT started out with hyd pilots and now EH on the larger platforms. CASE went from mech servo, to pilots to EH. So when generic term like "joystick" are used it means different things to different people.
KSSS, thanks a bunch. That's what I was looking for. Lots of useful information and I appreciate that. I did noticed the tires and that one being low. I would definitely put new ones on if I decided to purchase it. I would assume the loaded tires didn't affect the drive train in that short of hrs, I would hope. I had read that they can do that. And thanks for the info on the type tires. That was actually my next question and you already had it covered! I'll need some that will work fairly well in a compacted to semi compacted sand. I have a lot of pines that drop needles and there are an equal amount of hardwoods dropping leaves onto the floor. So there is a bed of pine needles and leaves with sandy loam just beneath. I definitely need the floatation down in my bottoms, but will steer clear of that until completely dried up. I have had to compromise on some things and I will not be able to do some of the things the track machine can do. Well, I can, I just have to wait for the right time. I have a slight slope to my property (less than 9 degrees) and some of it is flat as well. I'm pretty sure I can make this machine work. I know you said you weren't a NH owner, but do you or anyone else know some problems or issues these machines might have? Or problems I may want to look for when I go and look at it? Thanks again for all the help!
Until the L200/Alpha series NH had the entire boom attached to the cab. This is why expensive jacks were needed if you wanted to tilt the cab. With the L200 series they moved the boom to the frame which is why they lost the access to the engine and such. As you mention John Deere was the same early on. Later on Deere moved the boom off of the cab but retained engine access. They did this by basically putting a big roll bar behind the cab for the boom to attach to and the cab pivoted on that bar. The new machines today use this design as do a few previous generations. We used to run all LS170 NH SSL's and I never saw the need to tilt the cab ever. With all of the panels removed inside you can access everything. Maybe tilting the cab made drive motor replacement easier, not sure never had to do one. It doesn't sound like you are going to be wearing yours out any time soon so I wouldn't sweat tilting the cab. Maybe by then you can pick the jacks up cheap used somewhere or make your own. The LS and L100 series require the jacks they are a similar platform. Basically as long as you have the boom in the air, the engine is very easy to work on. Remove the side panels and you have all of the access to all of your filters , starter, alternator, etc. Radiator can be easily removed if you need more access to the "front" of the engine. Nothing you do for regular maintenance will be under the cab except for adjusting the controls which you will not have to do with a pilot machine. The seat flips up in the NH machines so you can get at a lot of the stuff under the cab, if you need more access the seat and other panels in the cab can be removed in a few minutes. Half of the machine comes apart with a 9/16" socket. You will be able to replace any hose and most of the componenets without ever thinking about raising the cab. Is it as nice to work on as some other machines? Not always but its not bad IMO. Case didn't use full joystick pilot controls early on, that is what he was referring to where both the drive and boom functions are pilot operated. Bucket means nothing, we do the same as KSSS, trade every couple years/2k hrs but usually send the worst bucket with the trade ins. All the dealer wants is some sort of a bucket because just having a bucket makes the machine worth a lot more when they are selling it, the condition of the bucket effects resale very little. If you want a nicer bucket, they will surely work a deal with you as a lot of dealers want used buckets they can put on used machines that did not get traded with a bucket. The L190 you linked to looks nice and clean. Thats not many hours for an 08. KSSS would have a better idea of what is "normal" for hours in the construction and landscaping industry, but for ag 1000hrs+ per year is common. I would say that L190 was not used very hard at all and has a lot of life left in it. I haven't priced new NH's in awhile nor have I priced one of that size but new you would be looking at 40-45k for a comparable machine easily. If you do get it, look into relocating the hydraulic coupler block. We had a lot of issues with those. They are mounted to the attachment plate and get corroded very easily. We do operate in manure which is much more corrosive than dirt and such so you may not have the issue, but we did a lot so we would move the solenoids and valvebody underneath the cab inside the right hand fender and just run new hoses along the boom up to the ram. We make all of our own hoses so it wasn't hard to do, but if you are wondering what it costs I would say to budget a few hundred bucks, worth it though if you save one solenoid.
The New Holland seat lifts and locks in the up position for open access under it. Cab tilting is not necessary for normal maintenance.
Yes this is the big issue, misunderstanding terms. I wish more dealers and salespeople could get properly educated so they can educate their customers. People often associate "pilot" with the ISO pattern, but "pilot" is just a style of control. Low pressure pilot hydraulic system operate by joystick servos. You can theoretically plumb it to control the machine however you want, but since most OEM's offered it in the ISO pattern, the generalization of "Pilot" meaning ISO pattern happened. Then theres the term "joystick" as you mention. To me a joystick is simply that, it has equal travel in all directions and pivots on a fixed point. Many of the Case controls were not this way as the drive sticks were still "manual". I think the only thing that has not caused confusion is EH. Everybody knows what that is, maybe because everybody seems to equally hate EH. Deere now offers electric foot controls for those who want them. I think the next few years will see more people going to either H or ISO pattern since most machines are all going to EH controls. Bobcat seems to be putting up the biggest fight but that could just be my area too. Deere offering EH foot controls is great, but much like operating H pattern on joysticks when you are used to older Case controls, I think people will hate it and just learn a different pattern. Just my speculation though. On the topic of tires, it looks to me like that machine has 12" tires on it. When looking into a lot of the other tires, check out the Bibsteel AT from Michelin. I love them on our SSL's, we run a lot of hours on concrete and gravel and the wear life on them is outstanding as is the soft cushy ride. What you would probably like most is the puncture resistance, being a steel belted radial they really do resist punctures much better than fabric bias tires. I've fixed on puncture between the two sets I have on our SSLs. The 12" set has just over 1200hrs on it now and the 10" set is around 500hrs. Traction is very good. If I had to criticize them it would be the bead protection, its not as good as the factory Cat tires (Titan) but honestly I'll fix bent rims any day over punctures. Bent rim just requires a smack with the hammer, no dismount needed. Pricing wise they are only about 100-200 more than a high quality Bias and you will get your money back in tread life and downtime if you run a lot of hours. In your case with limited hours it may not be worth the investment which is understandable.
durallymax, thanks for all that great info. You guys answered more questions than I ever thought would be answered. I'm definitely taking a trip tomorrow. Hopefully he'll still have it available. I have looked a long time for the right machine. They are SO hard to come by in this area. Lots of junk and they think they're sitting on gold. I haven't figured that one out yet. Anyway, I do appreciate all the help as I never could have known enough about it to know whether it was worth pursuing or not. Thanks!
One more question for you guys. Do tires on these machines already come mounted on the rims or do you have to mount them? For some reason I thought you bought them with tire already on rim. Maybe I read that wrong?
' Only if they are the airless tires do they come mounted. If you stay with the size that is on the machine any 12X16.5 tire will mount on those rims. If you go to the larger tires you will need different rims. I am not aware of anything in particular with the L190 to look for, especially at such low hours.
Great, thank you!
As KSSS said the tires will mount dismount like any other tire however being foam filled they usually have to be cut off.
Grit, sorry for chiming so late. Did you go look at the L190? What did you think? I bought a 2007 L190 about a year and a half ago. It had just over 1000 hrs on it when I bought it. When I bought mine it had 14" tires on it that were pretty well shot. I changed out the rims and put a new set of 12" tires on and filled them with foam. My skid has standard controls where the joysticks control the wheels and foot pedals control the bucket/loader arms. This works well for me as that is what I am used to. To be fair though, pilot controls were on my wish list when I went looking. Overall I am very happy with the machine. It does all that I have asked of it. The 2008 that you are looking at has the updated (pressurized) cab. I think the interior will a little nicer than mine. I have owned NH skidsteers (3) since 2003 and never had to raise the cab on one. I believe (as others have said) that you can tilt the cab with a chain hoist or come along. If you have another tractor with a front end loader (as I do) you can also use that to raise the cab. I have been a happy New Holland customer for quite awhile now and as I said before a happy L190 owner for a year or so. If you have any questions that I can answer, you can post them here or PM me. By the way as part of the deal I got a service and parts manual with my loader. Best of luck, Tim
Tim, thanks for chiming in. Sounds like you a real pleased with your machine. This will be the first skid I have ever owned so this is all a new experience for me. I have a lot to learn about where everything is and how to locate them. I guess I could use a manual. Well, I am happy to say that I am the proud new owner of a 2008 L190. Went and looked at it today and it pretty much looked just like the pictures. It does have a couple of issues, but I decided to pull the trigger anyway and hoping it's not going to cost me too much to fix it. One, it's going to need a new harness/lead? that goes to the bucket. I can't think of the name of it now, but it releases the bucket so you can put other attachments on. It was severed in half because it is ran between the frame and loader arms. Bad place for it. Two, the blower for the AC/heat doesn't work. I HOPING it is just a fuse, but it could be the blower itself. Hopefully there's nothing else wrong with it because I don't want to get into compressors and all that. Anyway, besides that, the only other thing it needs is new tires. I tried to check it out the best I could -- or with what little I know of the machines, but it seemed solid and it ran good. He's actually the one that shot me a number and I bit at 26,000. So you were right on, KSSS. With my ag exemption I don't pay taxes so I figured that was a pretty good deal. Just hoping I can get these issues fixed and I'll be a happy camper. Heck, I'm a happy camper right now, lol. I appreciate everyone's help at it was more that worth the 6 hr drive there and back. Thanks again!
Congratulations Grit, I'll bet that machine will serve you well. While you have the AC cover off take a look at the cooling (evaporator) coil. Mine wasn't cooling worth a durn so I checked that coil and it was plugged with dirt. Took me a while to clean it out but it sure cools well now. In these hot Texas summers you are going to appreciate that A/C. Tim
Congrats on u'r first machine ! …… It'll be be a great learning curve, finding out all of the do's and can'ts and don'ts ….. LOL ….. I wouldn't get to bent outta shape over the tires that are on it …… Run it till you NEED it ….. until you get into a traction situation, the worn faces will be advantage to you, the machine has good weight to it and they auger the ground up pretty good when spinning around ….. the worn tires will let you glide around and make your moves feel smoother until you get used to it, removing the Herky-Jerky stuff, with time you will find out what we mean ….. One of my first machines (owned) was the JD 8875, it was a hybrid JD/NH …. the chassis was identical to your New Holland and the power plant was a JD 3-cyl Turbo'd engine (frigg'n noisy bast**d …. LOL) Have FUN and be SAFE !!! ….. cheers !
Thanks, Tim. That was one of the main things I wanted was that cab. Too bad the air don't work. Hopefully it's not a big deal. The seller hinted of a blower so maybe he knows that's what it is. He said they were no more than a couple hundred. Don't know how true that is. Do you know how much a new harness for that bucket doohicky would cost and how hard it would be to replace?
Craft, thanks for that info. I don't know how long it's going to be until I can get me some new tires. Any suggestions on where to buy and how much I might be looking at? One of the tires are pretty low. I guess I can't fill it with air when it has foam in it?
I plan on pulling the wheels myself. Do I need 4 heavy duty jack stands? Anyone know ft lbs of the lugs? So many questions. I need a manual!
Grit, sorry, I do not know what that harness will cost. I wouldn't think much as I believe it only has two wires in it. I do know that that hydraulic attach plate is the berries . I have one on mine and it sure beats manhandling those levers. I just use a 3 ton floor jack to pick up one side (2 tires) of the skid. Tim
Tim, that's ok, thanks anyway. If I went to my dealer for the owners manual, would it have information like what type hydo fluid, oil, air cleaners, ect in it? I need to change oil, ect and need to know what type.
On the tires I'll have to have them all off at the same time to get them mounted. So I assume will need 4 jack stands? Could use two jack stands and a floor jack to keep other end up but might fail. Just trying to get an idea. I assume it would be like a car or truck.
A big block of wood fit tightly under the rear of the machine, cross-ways so it doesn't tip sideways ……. then push down with the bucket and lift the front end up ….as it goes up so will the back ……."TA-DAA " ………. OBTW ….. you will find out in a hurry that the door doesn't open if the boom is too high up LOL ….. remember "Use Your Head" and be safe !
Actually if you use the bucket to prop the machines front wheels off the ground you can put some timbers under the front of the frame.
Congrats on it, see my earlier post about redoing the hydraulic attachment to avoid issues in the future. You remove the block from the plate and put it inside the right fender, shorten the wires to there and there is a hose you tap into for the pressure supply. Then run two new hoses all along the boom and connected to the block to operate the ram. This keeps all of the expensive and fragile stuff out of harms way inside the fender/under/next to the seat and works great. x2 on the tires. new tires versus old tires all SSL's just suck for traction equally just like wheel loaders equally suck. The older big NH's used a non turbo motor and man that thing was noisy and slow. When you threw the throttle all the way up to you could count to 5 before it would finally hit the RPM's. Like I mentioned earlier I like the Michelin Bibsteels the best. If you setup a national fleet account through Michelin (which anybody with a business can) you can get good national prices on them. If you have any semis this account will benefit you drastically as the savings on truck tires are huge. Without a national account expect to pay $500-600 for 12" Bibsteels. In comparison a Firestone Duraforce DT last time I priced one was $380. Those are bias though. The Bibsteel is a steel belted radial. You wont get much tire for under $300. You do get what you pay for with tires. Bibsteel AT If you hate flats but want pnuematic performance, there is always the Tweel but its double the money. The rate ours are wearing at is amazing though and they are retreadable, but we put over 1000hrs a year on them, with lower hours it may not be worth the investment. I still like the Bibsteel more for most things. Nope a regular 2-3 ton floor jack will do the truck. Yes it would but you should be able to find a manual online for free with some proper google searching. Just get some 6x6 blocks of wood and set them under the frame, you will be good to go. I use the bucket to lift the front for tire changes also but it should be noted you shouldn't use it when working under it, close friends relative was killed trying that.
Thanks for all the great info! This is a great place! I'll be referring back to this thread as time goes on. The information is invaluable and will help me when I start working on the machine. I don't have it in my possession, as of yet. I'm waiting on a release of funds, but should be expecting delivery this coming Monday morning. I'm excited! Thanks again everyone for all the help!
Yeah, the operators manual will have all the capacities and lubricant specifications. I got that with my skid plus I got the shop manual. The shop manual can easily cost $500-$600 but it contains all of the information you need to service, maintain and overhaul you skid. If you plan to do all of your own service, the shop manual is a really nice thing to have. If you look at Messicks.com they will have a parts list and graphic breakdown for your machine along with dealer prices. You can also find this through the New Holland web page.
Thanks, Tim. More valuable information I can use. You guys are great. Thanks a million. I won't use this thread to continue with my learning experience, but do have one more question if I may... I have decided to either go with the Galaxy Hulk or Galaxy Beefy Baby. Which tire, in your opinion , has the better traction? Traction is going to be extremely important. Wish I could go with a radial, but at this point either of these will have to suffice. Thanks!
Beefy baby will get much better traction, but the Hulk will wear longer. CNH's new parts sites let you tie into your dealer of choice for pricing and such. They are really slow if you don't have fast internet and go down often but it could be worse. I still miss the old site. Somehow I found the complete repair manual for LS170 and LS160 online for free. Maybe with some time on google you can find one for your L190.
durallymax, I looked for a long time and never ran across a repair manual or owners manual. I saw some smaller and older models, but not mine. I found one '05 service manual if memory serves. I guess I'll have to go the dealer route for the owners manual and hope nothing major happens where I'll need a full repair manual. I was going to ask if there were any online company's where any of you have purchased tires and were pleased with their prices and overall experience dealing with them. I guess that's about the only place I can buy these tires is online. A recommendation would be appreciated as it seems there a many, many that offer these tires. Oh and one more thing, I have read it is extremely hard getting tires off that have been foam filled. I have four (4) I would have to fight to get off. Is it worth it, or should I just buy new rims? I need to come up with something that I can shoot in there and dissolve that brick of mess. Oh how I wish I was Genie sometimes.
Hey Garrett, as I said, I had the tires on my skid foamed. I heard some where that if the carcasses are good they can be recapped while still on the rim. I was talking with a guy who worked for Bandag the other day who said that they have dealers who actually apply the new tread. He mentioned GCR and Southern Tire Mart, both of which are local to me. I will check with them today to see if this is possible. May just be wishfull thinking on my part Tim
Thanks, Tim, but I think the foam in these tires have broken down. Maybe the reason that a couple of them are half flat? Wouldn't that require more fill on top of a recap? I was thinking it might just be easier tossing the old tire and rims in the corner of my barn and just buying a new set of rims and dealing with the old tire and rims at a later date. But that is highly dependent on how much I could get 4 new rims for. Seems I'm in a pickle. Who says money ain't everything.
12" Cat rims are $90. I think NH rims were more when we had to buy them. Bobcat was cheaper than NH but their rims didn't last as long in the manure. You could also try an aftermarket rim supplier.
Wow, I can't find any 14". I decided to go with the bigger ones, but I'm not having any luck. Do the different manufactures swap between the two? Like, can I use Cat's 14x17.5 rims? I called the NH dealer in my area and they wanted $600.00 each!!! WOW!!!
I am almost positive that the CAT rims will work. Cat rims work on my CASE machine so I have to assume NH is the same.
I had read that the offset can vary a little between some. Don't know if this is true or not. If so, it's just a matter of finding out which ones are exactly the same.
http://www.trucktireretreading.com/servlet/the-1630/New-Holland-LS-180/Detail Well, after an exhaustive search, these are the only ones I could find. They are for the series of machines before mine, if I'm not mistaken. Would these fit my machine? I have no idea if they are China made junk or not. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Cat uses a very deep offset on their rims compared to Bobcat rims. May be the same as CNH though. I'll measure one where I get back to the shop if I remember. I do not know about the 12" ir 14" But the 10" Bobcats and NH machines used the same offset. Cat uses a deeper one though. Cat would probably be the cheapest if you can and wouldn't look that far off from the color. I've been really surprised at how cheap Cat parts for our SSLs have been. I figured they'd be a rip off.
Thanks, durallymax. I don't think I understand, though. So you're saying the Cat's wouldn't fit, but the Bobcats might (depending on the offset of the 14")? Boy this stuff is driving me crazy, lol.
Here is what I could find on the offset. With the exception of the all wheel steer bobcats and I believe some of the newer M series, most SSL's use a 8 lug pattern with 8" centers and a 6" center hole. The offset is slightly different between brands and sometimes brands offer multiple offsets depending on if you are trying to keep the machine a certain width. Bobcat rims - 3 3/4" from outside - 6 3/4" from inside Case rims - 4 1/2" from outside - 6" from inside CAT rims - 8" from outside - 2 1/2" from inside NH Rims - 4" from outside - 6 1/2" from inside
I got the same kind of sticker shock when we went to replace some JCB skid steer rims last year. Fortunately with the help of a guy on this forum who was a dealer half way across the country we managed to twist the factory's arm and got a major reduction in the price. I did try to see if the Cat rims would fit but no luck on the JCB. If I was you I'd talk nice to your local Cat dealer and see if they have one on the shelf you could "borrow" to see if it will fit. Even if they make you buy one and charge a 10% restocking fee to return it it would be money well spent. $90. rim 10% restocking fee is only $9.00, you'll probably spend that much on lunch today!
Thanks, durallymax, that's what I was looking for. I knew they differed somewhat, I just didn't know the measurements of each. So it's like the Cat rims are turned inside out in relation to the NH and vise versa? But overall width and everything else is unchanged. If that's the case, I don't see why they wouldn't fit. But which ones would I ask for at Cat? Or off of which model/year? kshansen, thanks and you're right. It would be worth purchasing one just to find out even if having to pay a restocking fee. I've burned money on worse things. Probably don't want to get into that, though, lol.
Here is a chart that shows cat's specs on their rims. http://www.albancat.com/UserFiles/Uploaded/cms/aaup-tire-app-cat.pdf 142-8759: 16.5x9.75", 8x8 hole, 6" pilot hole, 10mm offset (outset). $95. 142-8731: same as above but with 3.39" offset (outset). $95 as well. A rim should be returnable, the stick they put on it when you get it will tell you if it is or not.
Thank you!
Grit, I just talked to the guy at the GCR tire store here in Abilene about recapping foam filled skid tires. He said that they could not do it. However he also said that they charge $25 each to cut the old foamed tire off of the rim. I have bought skid tires from them before and they were very reasonably priced and as I said they are the ones that foamed the tires I have on my skid now. Sure beats $90 per rim to cut them off rather than replace them. Tim
Thanks. I'll probably end up having someone cut the tires and foam off my 12 inch ones if I can't find something that works for the 14". I really need more floatation the 14s would offer. I have a guy that deals in used rims in my area that is looking for me some also. Maybe he'll come up with something for me, and at a decent price. Thanks everyone for the help!
Grit, I've come to this discussion a little late, but I'll make 2 points: 1. If you're really looking for better flotation, or traction, consider OTT's (over the tire tracks), in either rubber, steel with rubber pads, or all steel. I have a 2012 NH L220 with all rubber Camoplast OTT's over 10x16.5 tires, that I leave on all year. Your L190 doesn't appear to have any clearance issues with overhangs or fenders (like my newer L200 series), so it should be easy. Also, the spacers which are used to push the wheel rims out further for clearance might be useful in your search for rims even without OTT's. 2. The cab on my NH L220 pivots forward, after you remove 2 big nuts. Even though the cab has a gas assist on it, it is still VERY heavy to get moving. The technique is to stand on the 2 front tires & pull on the cab handles (one on each side), but I feel like I need a 100 lb. counterweight on my a*s!! Sometimes I get tired of grunting & just rope thru the handles & hook to my tractor's loader & pull. IMO they could have provided a little more gas assist, or some kind of lever system in the back to get it started. Otherwise, enjoy your L190.
Thanks, SW, and I will sure give those OTT's consideration. Anyone know if those LS190 wheels (in the link I provided) would fit my machine? Just trying to find out if I can extend my search -- Although I haven't found many LS190 wheels, either. Still need to check out the Cat wheels, too.
The ones in your link will fit your machine. If you just want width, there is a wider cat rim and tire combo in the link I gave you. Its a 12" wide rim and they put a 15" wide tire on it. PN:178-2270. I cant get my account to login so I cant check how much extra it costs.
I just checked and my Parts Store quotes $127 and some change for the 178-2270
Thanks, durallymax. I looked over your link yesterday and I was pretty tired. Admittedly, I didn't really know what I was looking for in that list. It's a long list and it was a little overwhelming at the time. If the 14x17.5 gives me more height, I would prefer that over just (more) width. The 14s should be plenty wide. Is that part# 178-2270 for tire and wheel? If so that would be great if i could get that combo in a 14x17.5. I hate to sound like a broken record, but this is all new to me and I haven't the slightest idea about how to mix and match tires from different manufactures. I just want the exact or closest match I can get to 14x17.5. If that's rims only, that's fine. If it's a combo tire and rim, that's even better. Appreciate the help. And thanks for your patience for this dummy.
I bought a set of wide CAT rims to run 33's to run on a CASE 440 for a particularly nasty job. The offset was perfect. I would also put those tires on a 465. I am not sure if that applies to NH. However like the CASE 465 in picture, many of those machines due to their weight, run the wide 33" tires. They are excellent, you just don't want to burn them off on asphalt since they can be spendy.
I believe it is just for the wheel.
Grit, you may want to call the parts manager at Abilene New Holland as when I bought my skid from them I traded my 14" tires and rims in for some new 12" tires and rims. That was a year and a half ago but they may still have them. Parts manager's name is Darrell and the number is (325) 675-0602. Tim
Thanks, Tim! Yeah, that's been a while ago, but it's worth a try. I give them a call Monday. Thanks a bunch!
ohh crap it wanted to double post ….. edited the first out ……sorry
So I'm a Bit Confused Here ??? ….. About the foam filled Tires …… To get the liquid into the tires, which turns into foam expanding inside of the tire, I'm assuming that it is injected thru the tire stem ???? ….. so if the tires as in this NH machines case, is the tire stem ruined ??? or can you not just add air to the tire and bring it up to the full inflated pressure again ??? …….. I know nothing about the technical factors of foaming tires …… I HAVE been thinking seriously of doing this to a set of tires/rims that I had on my Bcat, they still have about 65% profile left but the tires won't hold air to great anymore (cuts and abrasions have caused the fibre cords to weaken) ….. So I thought that they would make a good set to install when putting on the Grouser OTT's As in Grit's machine couldn't you just add air back in to compensate for the weakness of the foam breaking down ??? …. it appeared (visually) that they were the 2 rear tires only that looked low ….. could the tires NOT get a top-up of foam liquid to bring them back up to full shape ??? Now i'm looking forward to the replies on this …….. it might help me make up my mind if it's even worth spending the money to do my set of tires or save-up and buy some solid tires for the OTT's …… Cheers Ps: Those tires on your new to you machine, Grit, don't look to be in that bad of shape …. what 50-60% profile still left ??? ……. maybe the questions i've asked above might save some serious coin for you if they can be topped up ….
Craft, I don't know if they have that much tread left on them or not. I think the centers are worn more than the outside. Overinflated from the foam? I think I had ask the question whether or not I could add air to the tires earlier in the thread, but don't remember and would have to go back and look. But that would be ideal. From the little research I did on the foam, I don't think I can add air. I am curious as to the answers to your questions as well. Those tires are going to really bother me. I'm going to have to do something.
Yair . . . guday fellers. I haven't been following this thread but just caught the last few posts about foam filled tyres. I know nothing of the performance when applied to skids but we get our implement and mower tyres foamed. Although expensive in Australia (about a hundred bucks for a thirteen inch implement tyre) it is well worth the cost as they just last and last . . . no way could you ever add any air though and you have to cut them from the rim. Cheers.
Grit: I don't remember anyone ever mentioning if they could be re-inflated or not ??? …….. New, the average tread depth ~26/32", very few tires I have found over the years have more than that …. so from what I remember, you are getting the machine delivered tomorrow ??? ….(there goes my C.R.A.F.T. again ….LOL) so once you've got it home it'll give you a base line to estimate the actual tread left on the tires …… The JD/NH that I had ripped a set of tires off in under 800hrs ….. the L-190, like the one I had is a heavy loader, Don't do any harsh donuts on hard ground or asphalt or concrete …. I remember I did a job back-filling a trench on asphalt, it was really old pavement too …. After the job was done it looked like brand new stuff, there was that much black rubber left behind from me, like driveway paint …LOL …. Kind of another reason I'm encouraging you to try and salvage what you get is what you got thing …. at least for a while till you get a feel for things, and it'll buy you some time to look things over and figure out if you really need more floatation OR ???…. cheers !
What does CRAFT stand for? LOL. It was supposed to be tomorrow, but I had to wait on my release of funds. I had the money tied up in bonds. Anyway, it is now in the bank and awaiting processing. I'll be wiring the money over some time tomorrow afternoon and should get the machine Tuesday if all goes well. Hey I'm all for saving money, and if I can, I will. Every little bit of info helps me all that much more. Great bunch of guys here and I don't know what I would have done without the guidance from others.
check out www.prowlertracks.com for tires and oem replacement rims. also consider ebay when shopping for rims. I would go with some 12/16.5 tires/rims and put on a set of grouser OTT when conditions required it. amazing what a set of tracks will accomplish.
Tim, good news! That number you gave me was a godsend! I got 4 rims (14x17.5) and 4 D Stone 14 ply R4 mounted and shipped for 1759. I don't know if that's a good price, but I think it is well worth it considering they are coming mounted and shipped. Thanks a bunch! You saved me lots of trouble.
Hey Grit, PM sent. I am glad that they were able to help you. Sounds like you got a heck of a deal Tim
Thanks. I tried to get him to explain what the D Stones looked like, but he had a hard time describing them. I asked if they had lugs and he said the lugs overlapped like the beefy baby I was going to purchase. They didn't have any babies. The D Stones were kind of the deal that went along with the rims. I figured they couldn't be too bad being 14 ply/R4. He said they were about 130lbs? The rims by themselves were A LOT. Much better deal with the tires. I was a little reluctant giving out credit card numbers and stuff for something I never even looked at, but I trust they will do me right. Thanks again!
http://tires-usa.com/deestone_tires.php?page=10
Hey Grit, I checked the lug nut torque specification in my L190 operators manual and it said to torque lug nuts to 125ftlbs. Check them every 50 hours. For those of you following this thread who might be interested in having your foamed skid steer tires recapped, I found a place in Orange MA that will do it. Pete's Tire Barn can recap skid steer tires that have been foamed without removing them from the rim. The price I was quoted was $240.00 each for a 12X16.5 tire plus shipping. Shipping from Abilene, Tx was going to be $513 each way for a total of $1986. I also checked on the price (locally) of having my old foamed tires cut off the rim, 4 new premium tires mounted and having all 4 of them foamed at just over $2500.00. Pete's Tire Barn is the only place I have found that performs this service. For me the shipping is the killer. Though even with the shipping it is still cheaper that 4 new foamed tires. The gentleman I spoke with (manager of the recapping dept) said that it would take 4 days once they started, as they could only do one tire per day. With a week shipping each way, I am looking at a minimum of 3 wks down time. Sure would be nice if I could find someone closer that could do this. Tim
Thank you for the link, durally and thanks Tim for the specs!
Makes sense that they could, here's a video of them doing a Tweel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYmtiOUEg3g&feature=c4-overview&list=LLRMqVcsuXJBjzMl65cki4ug
Well, got my tires and rims today. Overall I'm real pleased. The rims might have been Tim's with all the cobwebs on them, LOL. The wheels themselves are in pretty good shape and pretty well matches the age of the machine. Just a few scratches here and there, but they look good. For some reason I thought they would be wider, though. The new tires, that is... Come to find out they are not. I measured the width, and the old tires (12x16.5) are the same width as the new ones (14x17.5). For some reason I thought they would be wider, but they're not. Did I already say that? A little confused about that cause no one mentioned it. Anyway, they are definitely taller! Which I like. I need all the ground clearance I can get so that is a positive. Maybe I won't need the wider width anyway. I don't plan on running it in wet weather. And I will be allowing the ground to dry out before I start working again. I knew this when I went with wheels, though, and can deal with it. It is better than going broke forking out big dollars on maintenance costs of a CTL. I'm not making a living off this machine. Anyway, just thought I'd share. I'm surprised a mod hasn't shut this babbling mess of a thread down. I sure do talk a lot.
BTW, does anyone know the 8 lug tightening sequence (pattern) for the NH L190?