I just bought a Case 550E, 13,500 lb. dozer. My trailer that I've been using for my excavator is a Cronkhite 12 ton with 18,200 payload. The current ramps are steel with angle iron crossmembers, ladder style. Do I need to add wood to these to keep the dozer tracks from slipping while trying to load? The excavator is a rubber tracked machine and loads fine. The dovetail on the trailer is also expanded metal. Does that need wood as well? Thanks, Greg
The ramps should be fine but I would be a little worried about the expanded metal. Hook the grousers on that metal when loading and you could end up with a mess. Wood covered ramps weight a ton and when you load on any kind of angle with mud on the tracks sliding off will be a real problem.
Do you normally back it on or pull it on? Thanks
Hi Greg... :waving What you refer to as expanded metal is this, right? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...aun_9651.jpg/1024px-Streckmetallzaun_9651.jpg Not this? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Diamond_Plate.jpg/1024px-Diamond_Plate.jpg If you have a wide blade, you can 'see around' it better with the mirrors... backed on. HeavyEquipmentForums Either way, you shouldn't have a problem... IMO. A picture of, or a link to a picture of, your trailer would be good, also. OCR...
Yes, it's the first link. I'll try to see if I can upload some pictures. Thanks, Greg
I have angle iron ramps and dovetail on my current trailer as well. What I did was take an old set of rubber tracks from a MTL, cut them into 4 pieces - one each for each ramp and each side of the dovetail. I put them on with the drive lugs down into the angle iron. By cutting each side into 2 pieces, I can move them around easier, and slide them under the dozer when transporting. This has worked quite well when loading the D3.
Oh, And my prior trailer had wood ramps and dovetail, which was real exciting when wet, and a nightmare in freezing precip. Had to sand them several times to get the dozer loaded.
Here's what I do to load the dozer. First block the trailer wheels, front and back, both sides. Four blocks. Next crib the truck front wheels. Four blocks. Next crib under the trailer rear bumper, height almost touching. Lower ramps. On my trailer, the ramps are angle iron with the corner bend pointing to the machine, set inside a pair of rails that are channel iron. If you eyeball and see any side to side slope on trailer due to not picking a flat enough spot, get nervous...if the trailer is one a hill either down or up..... rethink any of these conditions. Put pieces of old conveyor belt on ramps. Drive dozer 'blade first' to align with trailer. As soon as climbing onto ramps, note the rear portion of tracks: when it first goes up the ramp, the front of the track slips and pulls the belts a little, dont worry about that ....then, as it continues up, the back portion slips on the ground or the road - During these times as the track fights, the steering can be a little abrupt. Once you are on the ramp, the steering will also be touchy. Go with a light touch. As you go over the crest at the teeter point where the ramp angle becomes the bed, start to lower the blade so it doesn't fall so far and this helps avoid a hard down landing. Try to not steer at the teeter point as it will be quite touchy. At the teeter point, the rear bumper cribs support the trailer - see comment at end about this. After the blade touches, raise it up to clear the deck of the trailer and proceed carefully to the head board or mark or wherever your scale experience data says to stop. Set the blade down and then the rippers. Make sure in neutral: lock brake, idle down. Take a breath. Be glad you didn't slide off. Climb off trailer and start chaining. Somewhere in this or at the policy time set by the Regulators, engine cool, shut down engine. Keep chaining until it is secure. Only then think about moving the rug...remove cribs, then blocks, I do the trailer side on the drivers side last. * When that dozer crosses that teeter point, all the weight from the dozer is at that point whereas a two axle rubber tire machine has its weight distributed (not necessarily evenly but nevertheless distributed) from one axle to the other. These rubber conveyor belts from the quarry do a good job of providing a buffer between the tracks and the ramps. I am looking for some more and have to go for a ride to get some more pieces. Local places don't have any extra at this time. I like the idea of the old rubber tracks that were mentioned above. I learned about this conveyor belt idea when I got my dozer - someone mentioned it to me. The machine referenced above is a JD450G with steering levers. Trailer is a 12Ton tag. There is a video of a dozer being loaded on a steel deck tag trailer on the roadside with some cross slope, it is almost at the final spot, and when it starts sliding sideways, it goes smartly off the trailer...has made me want to put some removable edge bumpers. They would probably stay there for a long time - only need to remove them if I have to pallet and forklift something. I forgot once to put the cribs under the tail, the dozer seemed like it wasn't as steep of an angle as I remembered...then when I looked, the truck was off the ground on the back axle....but I had blocked the trailer tires and the front tires on the truck so it didn't take off.... Chain it good and make sure your chains have a smart line on the pull. It will move if you don't do this correctly. Wish I had a pic of all this, then I wouldn't have so many words. Hope this helps.
Thanks, Oceanbob. That's a very thorough description. Any excitement backing it off? Greg
The reverse and unload business goes pretty good ... pull up the rippers and then the blade a little ... test the response and if it goes smoothly, creep to the tilt point, easing along (allow 'mental' time for the machine to complete the tilt motion and then once it is almost at the ramp angle, allow it to proceed along) and then continue idling down the ramps, and once the tracks hit the ground and the machine begins to level out, remember to pull up the blade a little to keep it from hitting the ramps....and yes the belts are put on the ramp area just because they work to put it on the trailer and am not seeking any more thrills. If you go 'fast' at the tilt point, the machine is rocking/rotating while you are continuing to put it past the balance point all the while...this makes it fall harder (not good operating!)... if you keep your wits and think, you can make this a nice smooth motion - no different than cresting a mound, gotta allow the machine to make its move...
Having slid off a truck once I do not like beavertail rigs. The best way to move a Cat is a tilt trailer.
What caused you to slide off, Tom? Greg
I was loading D2 with roller behind on flat bed truck backed up to bank and 4" x 14" planks. Roller caught on something and off she went. Happened in '83, still cant think about it. I was being stupid. Be carefull everyone. Tip over point is precarious. Steel on steel or wood is slick. Conveyor belting is good. Get an Eager beaver trailer.
Yair . . . I find all these ongoing dramas loading dozers interesting. I have never had to contend with much snow and ice but honestly in hundreds of loads/unloads we never had a drama with D8/D9g size tractors and of course smaller ones were a non event. I prefer ramps and "beavertails" to have (say) inch by inch solid steel welded on about twelve inch centres . . . something solid for the grousers to grip and I would take issue with a few of the operational points mentioned by oceonobob in his #8 post. By all means get the trailer set up as level as possible then line the tractor up straight and centre on the ramps . . . loading the same machines onto the same truck you get to know your sighting marks, it makes it easier with an offsider. At all times during loading and moving on the trailer blade and rippers should be hard up against the stops. Once lined up idle up the ramps and don't touch that bloody steering as you come to the breakover point just let her rock over with maybe a blip on the decel . . . its easy with a P/S or torque converter, with a stick shift of course you'll be feathering the clutch. Any stuffing around with the blade is going to get you into trouble, don't touch it just leave it hard up against the stops. Once she's rocked over and sitting flat check which way she's pointed . . . with a 9g on an eight foot trailer there is not a lot of track to play with. I don't know how you steer the modern tractors if you only need to shift a bees-**** but I have noticed that a lot of operators don't know how to steer a conventional power shift steering clutch tractor either . . . I see a lot of in and out of gear and blipping of decel and over correction and all kinds of B/S. So. We have our D9 on the trailer, she's teetered over and sitting flat, we've got our foot on the decelarator and she's at low idle. We look down the inside of the track and see we have to move a bit to the right to line up with the decking on the trailer. No problem, we plant our left foot hard on the right brake and pull her into gear . . . still at low idle our right foots on the decal. Of course she stalls out on the convertor which is exactly what you want. You then flick the right steering clutch in and out as quick as you can, just a flick and see what happens. Some times that's enough, she'll move a fraction or maybe it's not enough and she just takes up the slack in the track. If she won't move shove the throttle back and reset with revolutions a bit above low idle and try again, you are controlling the turn by the rapid in and out of the clutch which is more controllable than the in and out of gear and blipping throttle carry on I see around here these days. Once you are lined up waddle forward lower the blade onto the goose neck and push it into float, lower rippers if you have them and lock on the brakes. All done . . . we never used to chain them but that's a whole other story. You have probably seen this but I am sticking one of the old girls on here . . . . Cheers.
I load and unload right off the back... My blade won't quite lift high enough, so to load, I angle and tilt my blade to get a corner bit on, level and straighten blade as I run forward just a little. Then, I lower the blade, lifting the dozer up until the ripper teeth almost touch the ground... I have to lift that high, or the blade trunnion housing hits the lowboy. I drive forward, sliding on the C-frame, until the tracks start to climb the lowboy, raise my blade... keep going as I lower the ripper, which helps 'push' me, and almost levels the dozer on the lowboy, so I have very, very, little of the over-center drama... I keep going, as I lift the ripper, and look at the deck just like Scrub said... :thumbsup Angle my blade so the left bit is even with the edge of the neck, and... I'm on. I'm actually unloading in those pictures, but it works the same, either way. Also, I only had two ripper shanks on, instead of my normal three, and I had them in 'backwards', so they dug in a little more then usual... hardly leaves a mark, otherwise. OCR Photos by Terry Jones, USFS.
Great work OCR. That makes anybody who needs ramps look a bit soft. What type of job did you have your ripper shanks in backwards for? If they were in forwards, wouldn't they dig in and make it difficult to go forwards when you were trying to climb up onto the trailer?
Yair . . . Good one OCR , it bugs me to see mole-hills made into mountains, the discussion here and stuffing around with rubber belts and tyres like some of the loading (and falling off) vids on youtube. Now you have gone and done it I'll fess-up that we often didn't use the ramps at all with the larger tractors . . . not as interesting as your set up though. Cheers.
Anybody else got any idea?
Yair . . . Plant Fitter . I think OCR turns the hooks backwards when he knows he has to load . . . he mentions he's coming off in that series of pictures and if they did dig in going backwards it is really no problem as he can just wind the truck forward with the tracks. Cheers.
I don't know the blade width of the case or the width of your trailer but you may want to check with your state's DOT reg's. Alabama requires construction equipment to be hauled with the rear facing forward if the bucket or blade overhangs the trailer. I have to load my D5G xl rear forward because the blade hangs over the edge of the trailer a few inches even when angled.
I've never liked to haul dozers with the blade toward the back of the trailer for a couple of reasons. First reason is ease of loading. It's just a lot easier to load going forward (at least for me) as you can see what you're doing so much better. Backing on, you really can't see where your tracks are in relation to the trailer. Another reason, if you have the blade hanging over the side of the trailer at the back, it's a lot easier to snag gate posts, telephone poles, etc... when making sharp turns. If you have a short truck and trailer, it's not that bad. But my truck has a 287" wheelbase, and the 3 axle lowboy I've got hooked to it right now is 46' long... A lot of times, if I'm just moving locally, I'll pull the dozer far enough ahead that I can sit the blade on the neck. That raises the blade above mailboxes, gate posts (unless they have an overhead) and idiots in cars that can't stay in their lane... This is mainly with a TD15C. When we had a D41 Komatsu, you could angle the blade enough that it didn't stick off the trailer, and sit it on the neck. Made it really easy to chain down with the blade completly up out of the way. The 15, if you set the blade on the deck, you have to chain the front tracks before you can let the blade down. Then you usally have to raise the blade to unchain it.
And I would NOT put boards on the dovetail or ramps. My old 3 axle folding neck lowboy had boards on the dovetail when it was new. there was always sliding issues with that. So I put a piece of 3/8 plate all the way across the dovetail and 1" barstock for traction. It's a non issue now. Did the same for the sloped part where you go from over the axle bolsters down to the deck. I slid a 225 Cat hoe off the side once, transitioning from the top over the tires to the deck. Broke over fine, but as soon as the end of the tracks got on the wood of the sloped part, it slid forward and off the side at the same time. No harm done, as the deck sits very low to the ground, but it'll jarr your teeth when it lands...
Another note, whenever loading an excavator, I really don't use the ramps and dovetail very little. I guess if you had a smaller excavator it wouldn't matter, but a 200 Komatsu or larger, your rails run pretty much at the outer edge of your trailer (especially an 8' wide trailer). You will quickly destroy ramps running that much weight on the outside edge of them. I was taught to pick the front up with the hoe, and keep it up off the ramps. I'll usually set it down somewhere on the top 1/3rd of the dovetail, mainly to check my lineup (if you have equal length bar welded on your dovetail you can use it to judge where you are, just like you can use your boards after you get up on the trailer), then I track forward until my final drives are past the peak of the dovetail (I prefer to set up to where my drive motors are toward the front of the trailer, makes it easier for the next part, since you are in essence backing on. You're pedals work the right direction) then spin the upper around and pick the other end up until you are level with the trailer. Then I will back up until the machine is on the trailer all the way. I then pick the bucket up, and spin around to where the upper is crossways with the trailer, boom out to point where it feels like weight is balanced between counterweight and bucket, then track on to where I want the machine to sit. I do it that way as it's really easy to keep machine centered on trailer, by watching inside of tracks compared to flooring boards on trailer... It works best if you have a spotter to guide you during the backing up process, but I've done it many, many times by myself. If you have a legal width machine, it's really not a big deal loading. But a machine that half of your track pads is hanging off the trailer, it can get squirrly pretty quick if you don't know what you're doing...
Me neither but I don't make the rules here. Had a driver sidelined by the State DOT a few years back hauling a D6N XL. We had the wide load banner on the front of the dump truck and back of the tag trailer, dozer facing rearward and orange flags on the dozer end bits - the blade was not sticking over much on the trailer angled. We had a yearly wide load permit. However we didn't have an escort vehicle, a little tidbit I was not aware of at that time. DOT finally let the rig go when my foreman got there with his pickup and an "orange rotating beacon" (as stated in the regs) to follow him back to the yard. ALDOT also threatened me with never getting another wide load permit as well, it was a pretty good ass chewing. You would have thought we were hauling nuclear waste through a school yard.:bash
:thumbsup.. Yup, sure works good for me. HeavyEquipmentForums OCR
I'm working on that, but between my internet connection, my phone, and the story... lol Well, I'm slow...:bash OCR...
Piling logs/ brush?
I have no ramps on my big lowboy, a 50ton Rogers double drop solid gooseneck, and I have loaded trackhoes, dozers, track loaders, skidders, feller-bunches, and even my Case 580sk, with no problems. The backhoe and everything tracked goes over the side, and the wheeled logging equipment goes over the rear with help from a ditch or pile of logs. I put blocks under the corners when side loading big stuff, just to make sure the trailer doesn't get tweaked. I have never tried putting the dozer blade down to lift the front of the tracks, because I always figured , with my luck, the cutting edge would dig in and tear up my deck. For dozers I just put a block of wood or pile of dirt back far enough that it will lift the tracks over the trailer and let them come down on it. For the draglines I use staggered piles of mats on the ground. For the 580 I put the front end on the trailer from the side at an angle, up to the back wheels, and then swing the rear end on with the hoe. Loading trackhoes on trailers that belong to people who don't like side-loading, or when I can't get to the side of mine, I do it like has already been mentioned, and OCR showed.
OCR............The backwards rippers???????