I got a call from a lady who says she has some dirt and concrete she wants hauled off. We set a time to meet. I get there and find two large piles of dirt next to the farm house and some feeding floors. She says that the dirt is left over from putting a new foundation under the house. Apparently the foundation guy was supposed to take care of it but didn’t. She goes on to explain that the house belongs to her boyfriend and the both live 60 miles away in the city. He wants her to make arrangements to haul it off. They are working on the house and plan to move there from the city. The project looks in trouble. I ask how she wants the estimate done. She says no estimate, he’s got lots of money, just do it- hum? The more I talk to her the flakier this deal gets. It’s not a bad job, just worry about getting paid. I told her I would do it, but now I am thinking about telling them I want at least half the money I think it will take up front. I have never done that. I almost always work for people I know. How would you handle this?
Your gut is trying to tell you something here... YOU might wanna listen to it.
Couldn't have said it better myself.:yup
Here is how I would aproach it. take a tape and a piece of paper and transit and estimate as close as you can to how much dirt is there. Add 30% for swell. Calculate your trucking, do this by the yard if its hired trucks - otherwise you will pay by the hour for the convience store to stay busy. Add in pretty comittee costs to seed and mulch the area, and possibly a machine to spread the dumped fill out. total this all up, and add another 20% for them being the hard to deal with folks you are expecting them to be. Get them to sign a contract, and post all the money up front, not just half. If they ask why on all the money, tell them thats your policy for new, and out of the area customers. Don't be afraid to walk away either, not getting bad business is a good thing.
how big a job is it? if it is a day or two with a skid and a dump, well is it going to break you if they don't pay? if it is 10-20 grand job then i would get some paper work. in my mind this is a day or two job, (with out seeing it) so i need work so i would do it, and i don't have much going on so i have time to go after it.
What is wrong with cash up front? You arrive with your equipment they pay before you unload and then proceed to making money.
I'd ask for half up front in cash. If you decide to take a check, make sure it's good before you start the job. If you never get the other half, at least you covered expenses and made a little bit.
I think you need to show a bit of trust unless you have a good reason to suspect fraud. If I was suspicious, I'd just write it out on a piece of paper what you are being requested to do, the date, location and either a fixed price or hourly rate to do it. Both of you sign it and give a copy to the customer, keep the original. A deposit of $1 will make it a legal contract. If the customer is honest they won't mind putting it in writing, if they refuse, let them find another victim.
Lets be honest here. You can write all the agreements/contracts that your little heart desires but they are not worth the paper that they are written on unless you spend money and time (sometimes a lot more than you would have ever made on the job) on legal processes to try to enforce them if things go bad. Money up front demonstrates the customers committment to the job. They are the one who wants the work to be done so they should bear some of the risk. 50% up front is a POLICY that I employ in my company for individual homeowners unless I have already built a relationship with them. The balance is paid upon completion. They take the risk in the beginning, you take it at the back. This also can be viewed as a way to keep you on track and the customer informed. They will retain some control at the back end because they will keep the balance until the work is done to their satisfaction. IMO you are exposing yourself to extra risk, in this situation, because you are not even dealing directly with the owner. Come up with a deposit amount, that will cover your risk (the amount it will cost you to do the job), so that you won't end up paying to get someone else's job done. If you tactfully explain the concerns you have, request the deposit, and maybe a letter from the owner requesting that you do the work (even a phone call, recorded in your dailies [....you do keep daily records right?] would help to reduce your risk). Follow your instincts! They are speaking to you because they can hear the alarms that you may not. I must say that most of the time my instincts have been correct when I reflect back on things. Maybe this applies to you as well. They are a built in survival mechanism that has developed, over the course of your life, to protect you. A lot of people might refer to it as "baggage" which comes, at least in my view, with a negative conotation. IMO it can be a very useful tool in this circumstance. Another suggestion is to be VERY clear about what you are going to do and what the customer can expect from you, and vise-versa. If you are concerned that, by being too specific, you may reveal an expectation that you can not fulfill, or if you want something that they may not be able to comply with, it will be best for both parties if you get that figured out before the work ever begins. If all parties are working in good faith, and you do as I just suggested, than you will avoid 99.99% of all contractual pitfalls. Lastly, the very fact that you have posted this querry has led me to a couple of conclusions. Maybe corrrect, maybe not. You decide for yourself. 1) That you would really like to do this work. 2) That you are out of your comfort zone regarding the situation (not the work, just the circumstances). These (2) factors are working against you and clouding your judgement. Thus you have decided to ask the throngs of heavy equipment geeks who lurk around here. The bottom line is this. Do what you need to to get comfortable or just let this one go. Don't lose sight of the fact that most of us do not do this for practice anymore. We are in it to make money. You could do this job better than any job you've ever done. Fastest, most efficient, lowest cost/highest profit margins you've ever had on a job. It won't matter if you can't collect. You would have lost less money watching Oprah or sitting in a bar.
DG you put that in words well.
Yep, you saved me a lot of writing, and I probably wouldn't have done as well.
I think it's better to deal with the owner.I have heard of owners saying no I did not tell you to do that.You say who told you?Never heard of them.If thet are not married your out of luck.
I would at least get the actual cost of doing the job up front... If hr has lots of money, it wont be a problem....Maybe he has lots of money because he doesnt like to part with it!?!?
I concur with Digger, and also had the same concern as 2stickbill. bottom line is this, 1. Talk directly to the owner, give him an estimate- even if he does not ask for it - therefore no suprises. 2. Get a 50% deposit based upon the estimate, 3. Do the job, keeping the owner informed if any unforseen issues arise, 4. request final payment before you leave the Job.
Wow you guys in other states have it good. Out here in commi-fornia max down payment is $1,000 or 10% of the total job, whichever is less. I wouldn't be worried as much about getting paid if I could get 75-100% up front.
Yes I remember those rules. Lean notices are required also. Even if you don't intend to lean the job you must send a certified letter to the owner telling them what you are doing to their land and that you are preserving your right to lean should you have to. It's all a big joke though because the owner can simply bond around your lean. When I took my contractors license exam ("A" classification) the study book for the law portion was 5x larger than that of the trade portion. In fact the study company that I used did not even provide me with a trade book until I requested, and even then it was provided begrudgingly. I'm wondering why we have not heard anything from the OP. I hope that our comments have proved helpfull. I, for one, have pushed a lot of little keys and provided some hard learned advice in the process. It would be nice to know that it was not a total waste of time.
Thanks to everyone who has responded to my post. I ended up sending the owner (who I have still never met or talked too) a letter. I estimated the cost and told him I wasn’t comfortable proceeding unless he saw what this was likely to cost him. I asked for 50% up front and a signature on the proposal. I guaranteed the work would be done within 14 days of receiving deposit and signature.