A while ago I posted up what I found and asked others to say the strange things that they have found or dug up,there has been some really interesting things. At lunch time on a jobsite I was at, I asked a backhoe operator what was the strangest thing he found an this is what he told me. While digging footings for a small contractor for a remodle in an older area of town they found a metal bucket wrapped in tar paper. It had $28,000 in cash inside. Some of the bills were silver certifcates but most was still somewhat current dated money (60's and 70's). He and the contractor split it!. He said the homeowner just bought the house and said the lady that lived there before died in the house. His thinking was why should they tell the new owner. I think with times as hard as they are I would think twice but I know that the right thing to do would have been to try to contact the old lady's family or make an effort at least. I don't think I could have spent it with a clear consense. How about the new homeowner should it have been split 3 ways?
In my opinion, that money belongs to the new owner. It's his property. I would have a real hard time telling him tho....
finders keepers!
belongs to whoever the spoils belong to. that being said. i might have just taken it home quietly.
I would have told the owner!........ but then I would have charged hime $25,000 for the footings
I often wished through the years I could have dug up something that was really valuable such as Real hip has posted. It never happened. There is a situation similar to the metal bucket story that happened in Cleveland,Ohio. The money wasn't dug up but was found by a remodeling contractor in a bathroom wall. It was $182,000.00 in depression era bills with an estimated value of $500,000.00. I have posted a link to the newspaper article. It was kind of sad how the participants ended up after the money was split. They were taken to court and a judge determined what to do with the cash. So now there is a legal precedence in the USA on finders keepers. http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/12/whatever_happened_to_the_fight.html
That is funny !
Guys first off, your assuming a lot of things, but I also have a question. If you did the digging and hit a utility who pays for the repair? If thats true then why is anything of value automatically the owners if he knew nothing about it in the first place? What if it were an explosive material you found, would the digger get extra pay for not killing himself or anyone around him? If you have a guilty conscience then exactly who would you give it to? What if it never belonged to the late owner at all and that person knew nothing about it, then literally you'd be giving to someone who didn't deserve it and cheating the rightful owners out of it, and then how are you easing your conscience? IF you give it to the current owner and there is a rightful heir to the money then your cheating that person out of it and giving it to someone else instead. I'd be more diplomatic about it, I'd get down on one knee at the time of discovery and ask the lord to send me the rightful owner of the cash, the one who buried it, to come claim it in the next 5 minutes, if they didn't show I'd take it home until they did, go to church and put some of it each week in the offering plate and maybe even buy myself a new pickup so I'd make it to church on time each week as for a guilty conscience, I'd feel more guilty having everyone fighting over it and knowing I caused the fight or giving it to the wrong person and cheating the rightful owners out of it,so basically no guilty feelings here. Lastly does this guy need any other digging done?
Seems like it should go to the estate of the old lady that had died
Randy, You bring up some interesting points, I think the old lady had lived in the house for a long time as it was told. Nobody seems to get along during estate issues, there most likely would have been a family feud. To each their own regarding a clear conscience. If the operator dug up a water main then the contractor most likely would have had to pay to fix it. Buy I think it would only be fair to try to locate the original family.
I know I'd be tempted to keep the money and I like to think I would do the right thing but I wouldn't have any doubt that I was not entitled to it. If you found someones wallet full of cash would you not try to return it?
I definately would do the right thing. I would tell the new owners about the $5,000 cash i had just found
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_trove State laws The law of treasure trove in the United States varies from state to state, but certain general conclusions may be drawn. To be treasure trove, an object must be of gold or silver.[83] Paper money is also deemed to be treasure trove since it represents gold or silver.[84] On the same reasoning, it might be imagined that coins and tokens in metals other than gold or silver are also included, but this has yet to be clearly established.[85] The object must be concealed for long enough so it is unlikely that the true owner will reappear to claim it.[86] The consensus appears to be that the object must be at least a few decades old.[87][88] A majority of state courts, including those of Arkansas, Connecticut, Delaware, Georgia, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, New York, Ohio, Oregon and Wisconsin, have ruled that the finder of treasure trove is entitled to it. The theory is that the English monarch's claim to treasure trove was based on a statutory enactment which replaced the finder's original right. When this statute was not re-enacted in the United States after its independence, the right to treasure trove reverted to the finder.[89] In Idaho[90] and Tennessee[91] courts have decided that treasure trove belongs to the owner of the place where it was found, the rationale being to avoid rewarding trespassers. In one Pennsylvania case,[92] a lower court ruled that the common law did not vest treasure trove in the finder but in the sovereign, and awarded a find of US$92,800 cash to the state. However, this judgment was reversed by the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania on the basis that it had not yet been decided if the law of treasure trove was part of Pennsylvania law.[93] The Supreme Court deliberately refrained from deciding the issue.[94] Finds of money and lost property are dealt with by other states through legislation. These statutes usually require finders to report their finds to the police and transfer to their custody the objects. The police then advertise the finds to try and locate their true owner. If the objects remain unclaimed for a specified period of time, title in them vests in the finders.[95] New Jersey vests buried or hidden property in the landowner,[96] Indiana in the county,[97] Vermont in the township,[98] and Maine in the township and the finder equally.[99][100] In Louisiana, French codes have been followed, so half of a found object goes to the finder and the other half to the landowner.[13] The position in Puerto Rico, the laws of which are based on civil law, is similar.[101] Finders who are trespassers generally lose all their rights to finds,[102] unless the trespass is regarded as "technical or trivial".[103][104] Where the finder is an employee, most cases hold that the find should be awarded to the employer if it has a heightened legal obligation to take care of its customers' property, otherwise it should go to the employee.[105] A find occurring in a bank is generally awarded to the bank as the owner is likely to have been a bank customer and the bank has a fiduciary duty to try to reunite lost property with their owners.[106] For similar reasons, common carriers are preferred to passengers[107] and hotels to guests (but only where finds occur in guest rooms, not common areas).[108][109] The view has been taken that such a rule is suitable for recently misplaced objects as it provides the best chance for them to be reunited with their owners. However, it effectively delivers title of old artefacts to landowners, since the older an object is, the less likely it is that the original depositor will return to claim it. The rule is therefore of little or no relevance to objects of archaeological value.[32] Due to the potential for a conflict of interest, police officers[110] and other persons working in law enforcement occupations,[111] and armed forces[112] are not entitled to finds in some states.[113]
Thanks stock, in my state I'd be entitled to the cash, legal and everything, but at the same time, if the one who buried it appeared and could describe it I'd hand it over, way above and beyond the call of duty, and to put some in the offering plate on sunday would be even more of a perk and a good deed, now my conscience is clear, and of course where to find something valuable to dig up. Next question while on the subject, how does the treasure thing work on sunken ships in international waters? I was always told that the shipping company if they had to pay out claims was entitled to it till the end of time if they staked a claim on any treasure found later in life or the ship was located to begin with, say in early shipping times where gold and stuff was shipped aboard sailing ships. Not that there's a big chance of me digging any up in the midwest but you never know.
Now that you mention ships here a recent one......... http://news.discovery.com/history/silver-haul-gairsoppa-110927.html
Now Stock you opened up a new can of worms! haha.The money was found in California (not named in the law you cited). I like the reasoning of WaterDoc, but,.. again if you found it what would you do?
Notrite, if I found a wallet full of cash I'd try to return it, because most people have some form of identification in their wallet, I've done that many times, but unless there is a name on the money or in the chest that's buried, your only guessing as to who put it there, or how it got there at all for that matter, it could have been from a bank robbery and a neighbor buried it there, or it could be from DB Coopers cash he stashed there or a host of other things, your only guessing and most times your going to be wrong, in some instances it could belong to a company or an insurance company if money was paid out on a claim or if its involved in a bank robbery it doesn't belong to the land owner but the bank from which it was stolen or the insurance company that paid out for the robbery. Now go one further and imagine it was someone that stole it from several houses, like a thief and buried it there for safe keeping so it wouldn't be found on his person or property and he got shot and killed in another robbery, would it belong to the one who buried it or the one's it was stolen from in the first place? There are literally thousands of possibilities it could have been from and no real way to identify who put it there at all, only a guess and a lot of assumptions, to say it legally belonged to the current owner, is again an assumption just because he owns the land it was found on, that doesn't make him the rightful owner of it though, imagine if someone found a body buried along with the cash, now it becomes a crime scene along with the money its all taken into custody and from where it goes from there is where the investigation leads it to, not necessarily the land owner, and unless you dug up every inch of the yard you really couldn't rule that out either. So again if the one that buried it showed up to claim it your only guessing as to how it got there and why and also who owns it, if he or she did appear to claim it, you can bet there will be a lot of questions asked as to why it was there and it wouldn't be me asking them, but the law instead. As for the wallet of cash, if there was no identification in the wallet, does it then belong to the property owner it landed on? or the police to figure out who owns it? or to ask the neighbors if they saw someone drop it? or wait until someone asks or reports a lost wallet and then have them identify it for you? Luckily of all the wallets I've found they all had identification in them and could be returned, all those that I've returned I was paid a reward more than the cash left in them, they wanted their ID back and all their credit cards as well and it was worth more to them than what cash they had in the wallet in the first place, all volunteered a reward, so in the end by doing a good deed I was rewarded more than just taking the cash and tossing the rest. Keys are another big one to find, someone drops them in a parking lot and there's no way to find the owner of them so you go start asking, they'll eventually need to start their car so trying to find a vehicle ignition key to identify what vehicle they drive is a good start, but being a good citizen sometimes takes time and a lot of patience, but again those were just dropped, say in the last hour or day, so its a good bet the owner is around close by somewhere, you just have to find them, not decades later. Good point real hip, stock what would you do with the found cash?
Wonderful response Randy88. I think you really hit the nail on the head by reminding us to just be a good citizen.
What I have always done ..........................
Funny!!!!!!!
Randy88, my screen name is norite, hopefully you are not taking a clever shot at me here, I posted to this thread thoughtfully, hoping to contribute to the discussion at hand and meant no personal insult to any of those who have posted here, including you. My point was that I thought that I would not arbitrarily consider myself the rightful owner of the found money. I would consider it my duty as an honest citizen to return the money to it's rightful owner if obvious ID was found with it (ie a wallet) or turn it over to the police so that they might determine who the rightful owner of the money was.
I think that sums it up pretty well! It is hard times out there and it would be very tempting to keep it and keep quiet. That was what the person did that told me the story, I don't think it is right however! A wallet would be a no brainer to give back for me if it had ID in it. In this case it was a bucketfull of loot! I see this operator every so often and when he tells me about some hard luck he has lately I never resiest in telling him he had it coming. Like you Norite we admit to the temptation to keep it!
Norite, I didn't mean to poke fun at you at all, seems my glasses were not on straight and I misspelled is all sorry about that, hopefully I didn't offend you in any way, all I was getting at was just who would the rightful owner of the loot really be, its anybody's guess really and to say it belonged to any one in particular by using assumptions from who owned the land it was found on to who dug it up to whoever one deemed owned it is about as accurate as anybody's guess, the only real way to know would be for the one who buried it to step forward and say they did and why they did it, otherwise anyone might as well stake claim to it, everyone after the person who actually buried it has about as much right to it as the next person. When something of value is found its only human nature to want a share of it, just like when something goes bad and costs a lot of money everyone try's to figure out who else is to blame and have someone else pay for it. But the wallet idea was also a good point of view, if there was no identificaiton in it would it belong to the person who's property it fell on? Or only if you were working for that person when you found it? If the person who owns the land should be given the loot, then why not the person who owns the property where the wallet would be found as well? Not trying to be smart, just asking a simple question here on HEF to those reading this post, come on people what do you think? Over the years I've found that in order to do the right thing sometimes is hard to do if your not sure what the right thing to do is, 99% of the people out there are basically honest, but the problem lies with everyone's idea of the right thing to do.
Looks like we are all on the same page here, honest citizens all, trying to do the right thing, subject to temptation as humans. Never realised it could be so complicated as Stock pointed out all the legal stuff and Randy has shown so many possible scenarios which could have occured. Then get the lawyers involved and I almost hope I never find any money, would have to be a lot of money to make it worthwhile. I think I'll stick to trying to win the lottery.
So, what would you all do, if instead of finding money, you found a bucketful of toxic waste?
Box it up and send it to the EPA.
I would try EXTRA hard to find any kind of identification on it and then either A. send it to the EPA with a note or B. return it to the owner. Dumping it on the owners lawn would/might be funny but I'm sure I could be sued for something then.
i'd call the epa and have them deal with it... i aint touching toxic waste.... i wanna have kids someday!!!!!!!
I'd take that bucket of toxic waste and dump it in my favorite lake. I hear two-headed fish are twice as easy to catch.
Ha, ha, ha, at the fun EPA comments. The point is that nobody has suggested that they'd tell no one, and keep that bucket for their very own.
except Granpa, but maybe he's so odd as to count as nobody. In all seriousness, that's food for thought, digger. I once found some money on a jobsite, and told no one, course it was only $5, but still the most valuable thing I've ever found....
That's why I posted it. What makes the two scenarios different? I'm not suggesting that I'd not have to struggle with the decision myself, but I'm fairly sure I couldn't keep that money and have a clear concscience about it. :beatsme
Digger what makes the two scenarios different, who's pocket the money goes into or flows out of and why, that's the only difference, but I'm sure if you dug up toxic waste, somehow it would cost you out of your pocket for something, thats why I'd have no guilty conscience about pocketing cash I'd dug up, for once it would flow into my pocket instead of out all the time, but again its just my opinion. Does stock have a legal precedence on bad things dug up and who pays or is legally responsible for that? I'm pretty sure someone would have to explain about why it was there in the first place because when I've done a one call toxic waste was never mentioned as a possibility or something I might find or is flagged for anyhow, so I"m not sure who's going to pay what on that deal. That in itself might be a definition of having a really bad day if you hit and dug up some toxic waste, maybe even a bad year in one fell swoop there, but depending on what kind it is I"m pretty sure its NOT covered in my insurance policy for clean up and environmental damages on toxic waste, let alone disposal fee's. If you think the property owner eye's would get wide and he'd get excited over found cash, imagine what he'd look like after finding some buried toxic waste on his property? Can we all assume if that we dug up some toxic waste the owner would be informed or do we need to do a poll on that one as well? I'd think to look for someone to blame he'd be the first on the list on that deal, because I'm not thinking hiding it would too much of an option, let alone later on something would turn up and your name would come up as someone who once dug there if you'd try to keep it quiet and make a bee line for the exit sign, someone would eventually come hunt you down and ask questions, or attempt to blame you for burying it there.
Years back we were having an Officer/NCO professional development class conducted by our Battalion Commander. He walks in and set 2 cans of coke on the podium and said "gentlemen, I have a dilemma, I sopped on the way in here to get a pop and the machine gave me two, what should I do? Think I was lucky and give it to someone or maybe drink it myself, or should I call the vending company and return it?". Then he started call on individuals and asking their opinions. I was about the 20th person he called and was thinking that everyone was telling him what they though he wanted to hear. I stood up and told him "sir, if it were me I'd drink and not worry about it!". Everyone else had said they would return it. He dismissed me from the class and told me I could take the rest of the day off. The he gave a 3 hour lecture on integrity and told everyone else that I was the only one to give an honest answer. Now in the case of finding money it would depend on the circumstances. If I knew for sure when I found it that there was no way to determine who owned it I think I would keep it. An example would be depression era money. Properties changed hands in some cases several times in the 30's. Then maybe once or twice since then. So how to determine???? No way you could unless you knew you were on property that was family owned like an old farm site that may be 5th or 6th generation. On newer money say for the 70's or 80's it wouldn't be too hard to find out who lived there while that money was in circulation. In the case of finding a wallet or bank bag, yea I'd turn it in or look for ID. Toxic waste???? I'd be on the phone in a heart beat! But I do like the idea of shipping it to the EPA. If I'm digging for someone on thier property I'm guessing that the clean up cost would be on them. Rick
That's because they glow in the dark! You do have to use 2 hook's though!