Hello everyone. I am new here and to be honest new to skid steers. I have been looking for a skid steer for a few years, not wanting to purchase anything expensive. I am simply a homeowner and will be using my skid for personal purposes. I found a Case 1845b (I think a b) from a man who used it to move a small hill area in his yard. He was the 2nd owner and was selling due to his health and the fact he didn't need it anymore. It has the 188d diesel engine and as you can see in the picture needs some attention. I purchased it not running in December 2020 and have really done nothing to it. Cold weather is around the corner and I want to have her up and running for the snow. As the thread title states.... Where Do I Start? What I'm hoping this site and forum will do is help me understand the machine and it's quirks. 2 questions I have off the bat are: How do I truly identify my machine? Is there a model/serial number that will tell me exactly what I have? Year, model, options? I will grab a pic of that today and post it if that helps. Suggestions or a script to help me troubleshoot why it will not start. - I have installed a new battery - We drained and filled here with new oil and changed the filter - New fuel filters - Dirty Jim (the guy helping me who knows diesel engines and has a backhoe and excavator) cracked fuel lines etc to see if fuel is flowing - We pumped some ether into the intake She wants to start but I am sure fuel is the issue... getting it there. I purchased a pump rebuild kit... have not done anything yet. Suggestions??? Anything at all anyone wants to contribute I am all ears and grateful.
[/ATTACH] Welcome to the bizarre world of 1845 freaks, you are among the many The ID plate should be under your left leg, but it could easily be missing. If it is a # is stamped on the chain case.....somewhere. I'd use a remote fuel source like a soda bottle of fuel. run a line into the pump intake, (not pictured) then run the other line, the fuel return (blue line) into the bottle too. Crank it, crack lines, suck on it, whatever it takes to have clean fuel going in and fuel with not air bubbles coming out. I guess you've got a low pressure, transfer pump in there too. See if that's doing anything.
I'll try that. Side question... I tried to attach a pic... how the heck does it work? I'm familiar with other boards.. I read the sticky. I want to post pics of what I have so people can see what I am dealing with.
oh ... I think I figured out pics. I have disconnected some lines to see if fuel would come out. Does the primer pump operation work like this? Unscrew the pump plunger, pump, then screw it back tight before cranking over? When I prime should it get solid like pumping the fuel ball on an outboard motor fuel line? I took off the radiator and hydraulic radiator to gain access to everything. Should I NOT crank the engine without the hydraulic radiator connected??
yeah that will make an oil mess if you crank it
You can run a hose from your hydraulic lines into a clean bucket with a lid on for trying to get it to start, or better yet, connect the hoses, bypassing the cooler. If the cooler is shot, you can run it all winter without the cooler if you want to. I've never seen a priming pump like that except attached to an inline injection pump. Is that a "custom" add on? I'd get rid of it if you can't prove it was original. You will have a hard time priming the fuel system if everything is old and leaky and there's no priming pump. Use a temporary tank, mounted higher than the engine, or add a couple PSI of air pressure to the tank with a piece of inner tube with the air valve clamped around the filler. Are you getting any fuel through, or out of the injection pump? Does it have an electrical shut off or cable shut off? and is it working?
Thanks for the replies. My background is that I have only driven skid steers... never worked on one because I have never owned, one until now. Add to that the one I have driven is gas, not diesel. Diesel is new to me. I am mechanical and understand principals. I am not afraid of this 188d engine... actually looking forward to understanding it and keeping it alive. So, if you could bear with me I think the learning curve will be relatively quick. That is what I will due. You stumped me with "inline". This primer pump is obviously before the injection pump. I have been told to add an electric primer pump. Suggestions/recommendations on that thought would be welcome. I am getting fuel to the pump. If you think creating a remote tank and mounting it high above the engine to create some fuel pressure is enough to give the injector pump a boost I'll do that with an old jerry jug I have (God knows over the years I've collected a bunch). I'll report back what happened.
Quick question, the fuel shutoff on the injector pump... I am assuming when it is pulled forward the shutoff is engaged. Disconnecting the wire cable (it is shot and needs to be replaced) will result in the lever springing backwards opening up the fuel flow. Correct?
Yes, you almost always pull to shut off, push in to run. Sometimes it helps to have the throttle set to full speed for starting. Yes, the arrow is pointing to the overflow/return line. You should have fuel coming out of that when you crank the engine over. Yes, the primer functions as you described. I still say it looks odd and I'd get rid of it eventually, but it seems to be working so that's probably not going to keep it from starting. I like to use a temporary tank because you know it's fresh fuel and it eliminates what could be in the tank plugging up. You have a Stanadyne rotary injection pump, that style of priming pump is typical on inline injection pumps, you'd know them when you see them, the injection lines come out the top in a line, separate pumps elements off a crankshaft. Does the engine seem to crank over fast enough that it should start? Does it sound even when cranking over? have you checked the obvious like engine oil level, and coolant before you removed the radiator? No problem starting it with no coolant, just remove the belt so the water pump isn't turning, and shut it off as soon as it runs smooth, or less than a minute, NO LOAD. Obviously you didn't get fuel out of the overflow/return. Did Dirty Jim open the lines to the injectors at the injector to see if there was fuel there? I would remove that return fitting so you can see into the top of the pump, and crank and prime until you get fuel running out. then loosen the injector lines at the injectors, and crank until you get spurts of fuel with no air bubbles, then tighten and it should start. If it's been sitting a while, I would use fresh fuel, #1 if you can find it. If you can't get fuel out of the return/overflow fitting, then take the side window off the pump and see if it's turning with the engine, two small screws holding a small metal plate on the side of the injection pump.
Duh.... inline like an inline-6 car engine. I have seen these inline injection pumps. I understand now. The engine cranks over and has compression. Dirty Jim did crack some lines open and we managed to get her to fire with some ether. She just wouldn't run on her own. We suspected she wasn't getting any fuel. I have printed what you suggest and will go down the list to see if we are getting fuel. Thanks
The engine will run, drive and load with ether only, with the injection lines completely removed. Be careful of excessive ether use on a diesel. Use the starter, but not more than 20 seconds at a time, and plenty of time to cool off between, and a battery charger hooked up to keep the battery up. Only use ether once you've got some smoke from the exhaust, indicating fuel being injected into the cylinders, obviously you'll have fuel to the return fitting, and out the injector lines before you bother to check the exhaust for fuel mist.
More than likely, if u bought a non-runner., the inj. pump is gummed up.. U can try to take off the top cover off the inj.pump 3 screws but b forewarned, they tend the break.. If u make it in successfully, the metering valve is probably stuck.. Do some light searching for “Stanadyne metering valve” so u can get a mental pic of what ur looking for.. The mv MUST rotate freely.. if u pull it open, it should spring back closed.. Be SURE to get that shut off in the run position.!! Once u get the mv loose, put the cover on & try to start it.. If it’s pumping fuel up to the injectors, that’s great.. If not.. it means the pumping plungers are stuck and the pump HAS TO come off for repair.. The plunger are deep inside the pump..& there are special tools needed to gain access..
Hey Pump Guy... thanks! When I purchased the skid it was sitting for a while but the previous owner thought for sure it would start. I'll try your suggestion.
@pumpguy , here is a pic of my pump. The arrows are pointing where the metering valve is, correct? Just stick my fingers in there and make sure things move around without disassembling any? akso, lever A is the fuel/throttle and B is the fuel shutoff, correct? I’m heading there first thing tomorrow
Ok.... looking at the picture with the A and B, moving B moves the metering valve freely. Moving A does not move it. the picture below shows the timing mark (?) behind the little cover. When I cranked the engine it did not move. Sooo, must I pull the pump or is there something else I can try first?
There's two marks, and they line up at TDC, one mark is stationary, and one mark moves. If you're sure neither part is moving when you crank the engine, then it's time to pull the pump, but clean it up first. And probably set it to TDC by the valves?
Oh.... hmm. Well, I didn’t know one was stationary. I’ll have to go look again. Can you tell me Delmer, looking at my pump, the lever that moves the MV, B in the picture, is that the fuel shutoff? My goal is to try EVERYTHING before I pull the pump. thanks
if nothing moves inside that window when the engine turns, then nothing else matters. Remember, it's a four stroke engine and the pump shaft will turn at camshaft speed, which is half crankshaft speed. The internet will identify the parts better than I can. "roosa master DB injection pump" "fuel shutoff" or whatever will find plenty of pics.
Yes “B” is the shut off.. it moves the metering valve from run to shut off.. “A” won’t move the mv.. it only holds pressure on it.. Yes, there are 2 lines behind the window.. 1 that rotates and 1 that’s stationary.. It’s BEST to time the pump/engine before pump removal.. just rotate the engine BY HAND until the 2 lines meet then STOP.. Now u can take off all the lines and linkages and the 2 or 3 nuts holding the pump to the block.. The drive shaft will stay in the engine.. u pull the pump off the shaft, so make sure you have enough room behind the pump to pull it back..(filter head removal?) Good luck with the removal and I’d love to get my hands on it for a rebuild.. Just remember, it costs more if u help.!!
So I have done everything. A friend even gave me a portable lift pump to add fuel pressure at the pump intake. I cracked the banjo bolts at the fuel lines at the pump.... no fuel. I must now pull the pump. Actually having the pump rebuilt will be peace of mind moving forward since this old girl is new to me. Brings up a question, there isn’t a Fuel pump between the fuel tank and the fuel filters or anywhere in between the pump and the fuel tank. Is that ok? Or is it advised to add one.... a lift pump. I’m being told there needs to be one.
Did anything move inside the pump, so you could see the second line? If nothing moves, then nothing else matters. Send thepumpguy a message for instructions on how to send it to him. He's a professional. Obviously, you won't be able to time the engine by the pump if it's broken. I'd time it by the valves, when both valves are close to opening on #4 it will be on TDC on the exhaust/intake stroke, so #1 will be TDC compression stroke.
The lines did move. The pump is spinning. So just line up the lines before pulling or is there something else I need to do/align? Is is advised not to attempt a rebuild yourself? I have rebuilt many different carburetors and am not afraid to attempt it. I purchased the rebuild kit months ago. And I enjoy the challenge.
Just line up the lines.. that’s it.. U can snag a rebuild manual off the web.. RoosaMaster DB rebuild manual should get u close.. u have to buy 2 special tools that combine to make 1.. It’s a cam screw removal tool and bushing.. they’re sold separately. A kit is just 1 part outta about 7-10 that need replacing.. when u get it off, stick your finger in the front of the pump.. where the drive shaft goes. If u can feel any grooves.. the brass tube will need replacing..
I appreciate the pointers. If I decide to just have it rebuilt, what’s that going to set me back? I’ve watched a few videos....read a few threads... rookie rebuilders aren’t always successful. also, is the manual available online for free somewhere? And where would I buy those tools?
It’s to late in the evening to get the parts numbers for the tools.. I sent u a prvt msg.
I got your message, thanks. And I appreciate your help.
The cam screw BIT TOOL# is:: Stanadyne 24992 the BUSHING that it rides in is:: Stanadyne 21178 Continue at your own peril.. Good luck.
It's tough when you have no shelter to work on your toys here in the northeast. Cold, snowy, rainy... eh, that's life. I have my skid home (that's another story) and pulled the pump. I found a pretty good video on youtube and disassembled it. Here is what I found... First, the pump is a Roosa Master DBGFCC 431-54J . Pulling it apart and looking inside it was all gummed up with what I am assuming is the rubber gasket on the weight cage. Some of the parts have caked on fuel and maybe gasket material. I soaked all the parts in a can of ChemDip. It cleaned pretty good... still need to scrape with a razor to clean it up better so everything moves and fuel flows better. Question - For those who have torn apart a pump to clean it up, do you screw with the adjustments or do you leave well enough alone? - Roller adjustment via leaf spring screw (you know, pumping 30lbs of air and measuring with a micrometer) - Adjustments on Throttle lever Stuff like that. Finally, I have a copy of an old service manual for John Deere dealers. Same pump in general... but I would love to find a copy of a manual specifically for my pump. Anyone have one? can show me where to get one? Thanks
UPDATE- I am rebuilding the injector pump… when I disassembled it the plastic ring on the weight cage was everywhere. And so I thought I may as well replace the injectors also. Eliminate any potential fuel delivery issues. I have a 1984 1845 … 188d. What injector should I purchase? On the old injector it’s stamped 20350A5. Looked up that number with no luck. Any help?
As far as adjusting goes..don’t touch them until u get it running.. The speed adjustments are external and easily set.. As far as the R/R goes, (leaf spring) try to measure it BEFORE u year it apart.!! If u can get a measurement on it and the shoes are extended against the leaf spring and u can’t push them back in without a lot of finger force..GO FOR IT..BUT.. if ur smart, you’ll measure it w a micrometer BEFORE U TOUCH THAT SCREW.. Oh, if u move/remove it, U GOTTA KNOW what the actual measurement is SUPPOSED TO BE.. Do yourself a favor, hold the rotor up to a light and look thru the leaf spring for any leftover flex ring material.. if there is none, there’s no sense in pulling it off.. Disclaimer >> THATS NOT how the pro’s do it.. We have the tools and specs to reset it correctly.. THATS the thing about tearing into your pump..”A” it takes special tools. “B” there are specs that need to b known..& they aren’t available to the general public.. Sure, it can b done but it ain’t “right” As far as injectors go.. I googlehoo’d them and a gazillion choices came up..
Thanks for the pointers... Regarding the injectors, I have also googled them using the number I posted and what comes up certainly looks the same. Am I to believe that all I need to do is look for a Case 188d injector and what comes up will work just fine? And that it won't need adjustment? I did not pull the leaf spring for exactly what you are saying. I didn't want to screw with the measurement. I held up the rotor and looked between the spring and did see some possibly leftover flex ring material. Small little pieces. I blew them all out and there is nothing now to interfere. I'm not going to remove the leaf spring. Since I have you... the pump is a CC rotation. To replace the parts that need to be oriented properly, would I install them with the "cc" up? or does the "cc" need to be facing the drive side of the pump?
Cc is up, looking at u.. Same w the cam ring.. Don’t buy any old inj for a 188.!! Your part # is the 5 digit number.. leave off the end #’s..
Thank you "pumpguy". With this info I can put it back together and hopefully she will live again. The injector has number 20350. That is all I need? I will look.
U got it now.. happy hunting..
Just saw this post... this might help.
Hey Knuckles ... thanks for the pump manual. I had found that online, saved it, and have printed certain sections. I appreciate you attaching it. I've read through it and like anything that you are not familiar with I am sure I am missing some finer points. I'm becoming familiar with the pump. I just hope when I put it all back together and in the skid it works. If it doesn't I'm not ashamed to admit defeat. But that won't stop me from trying... I'm sure I'll pull it out and see if I can find where I screwed up. Pumpguy .... wow, cost of the 20350 injector compared to others is more than double. Shoot, I get needing to use the correct one. Are you saying that this number is OEM? and the best one for the job? And that some others would work but maybe wouldn't last as long or tune as well? or that any other simply will not work?
I was reading the post and read where it was a Roosa Master pump ... Kinda hard to forget a name like that. I used that manual a couple years ago working on a 58 Ford 901 and it did help me out.
The correct injector will have the correct number and size of holes, and pointed in the correct direction, and correct pop off pressure. Others might work, some would change the pressure or hole size and survive. Some would change the direction and burn out pistons in short order. Some wouldn't fit obviously. If that number "cross references" to newer numbers, then they will work. Roosa Master became Stanadyne, still very popular.
I see all your points. Just asking. I don’t want to do this again. Best to spend the $$.
I learned the hard way to use only new Stanadyne or Case OEM injectors for replacements. Justsayin.
Where is a good place to purchase these injectors? For a good price
The last time I bought Case oem's was on ebay. Be very careful there tho. There are a lot of rebuilt and cheap aftermarket ones listed on there. The last Stanadyne's I bought were from a fuel injection shop. No discounts there or at CNH dealers.
So here I am with this engine.... - I have the pump all together and installed - Timing was straight forward - My fuel priming pump leaks when I pump it. - There is fuel to the fuel filters - I pulled the manual... looked up the injector based on the engine serial number. Purchased injectors off of Amazon - Installed all injectors, all lines, replaced the exhaust manifold. - I cracked all my in injectors and cranked it over... no fuel seepage. I am going to get at it again... going to make sure there is fuel to the pump and then crack 1 line and crank it over. Am I doing that step correct? Also, what about pulling the primer pump and replacing it with an electric lift pump? If that's a good idea, how many PSI pump? AND, Im guessing the lift pump just says on all the time? or do you turn them off once the engine is running?
Well, I think my pump rebuild attempt might have failed. Everything looked pretty good. And went back on it was going smoothly and I even added a lift pump because my primer was badly leaking but in the end no fuel was coming out of the injector holes at the pump. Any suggestions? Or should I have it professionally rebuilt?
U wouldn’t be the first.. & definitely not the last.. Send it to me and I’ll try to help.. To contact me directly.. use my screen name @ aol.com
so here is a question…. You can see the top part plunger is spring loaded. On my pump the bottom part is fixed…. Doesn’t move. Is that right or is the plunger stuck frozen? I think it’s not supposed to move. I think it’s just one solid piece. Is that correct?
It moves w fuel pressure.. Where are the pieces that go on the pistons that r cupped and ride against the screw in the bottom of the pump.. u got’m.?? U do know there r shims inside the spring piston.??
My mistake... wrong pic. There were some very thin shims. I knew they came from here but forgot where. Do they go in the end between the spring and the screw on cup? I wish I could find a good exploded view pic of my pump. All the ones I find seem to be a little bit different. I'll lay out all the pieces and take pics so everyone can see what I have. I've looked and messed with this pump enough now that I am confident where everything goes. Appreciate the comments and advice.
The shims go UP IN the piston then the spring.. R u sure u have those pieces on the correct side of the pump.?? The “fixed piston” goes on the CC side..the housing is stamped..
Yup… I read that the fixed side is the “power” side and goes on the side marked with the orientation of your pump….. CC for my pump