Hey guys. I am looking for anyone's advice on a solid compact track loader to do swimming pool excavations. I have a contract to do about 250 pool excavations per year and currently have a John Deere 332e that's not standing up to the task. After about three hours of digging I can't even make it out of the ramp because how much it goes down in power. I am looking at purchasing a bobcat t770 brand new. But would like to know if there are any better alternatives. I'm looking for a bare bones machine with nothing fancy. One that'll just dig dig dig non stop. I would like to have a machine in the 80+hp range Thanks guys.
If you want a CTL that isn't fancy but will dig with the best of them, have a look at the Takeuchi machines.
Another vote for Takeuchi. I had a TL250 that we used on a large house pad in 2013. We cut and piled 2k yards, 8k fill imported, 1k of the piled cut spread and the rest loaded and spread on another lot. I'd burn 4.5-5gph pushing fill, but man it could push.
Back in the day we used an International 100E to dig pools...and we did a gang-load of them. The 100E weighs in at about 15k with a 4n1 bucket and is pretty narrow. Being narrow really helped in maneuverability in the tight confines of back yards and pool bottoms. I own a Kubota SVL90 and love the way it works, but I'll agree with both Mark and Lumberjack on the Takeuchi choice. The TL250/TL12 is heavier, narrower and has a nice tighter turning radius than the Kubota. My choice came down to the dealer, but if I dug a lot of pools I may have gone Tak. They are tall though, but if that's not a problem for you get a Tak with a 4n1 and go to work.
If you a want a bare bones digging machine I'd look at the Tak too. I just purchased a new Cat 279D because I wanted frills and get all the equipment one brand. I use a CTL for utility support, backfilling and fine grading work, not heavy digging.
Why not a excavator?
often times the dump trucks are out in the front of the house and mobility is necessary to load the trucks with dirt.
I'm not sure what your budget is, but would a CTL/SS/Mini Wheel Loader to transport the dirt and a Midi excavator to do the digging be an option? I'd think a large mini or a midi excavator digging and piling and a "skid steer" moving the dirt to the waiting trucks at the road would have to be faster then digging and transporting with a skid steer alone. Depending on the distance to the road and if you kept the 332 you could even run 2 machines transporting dirt to the trucks while an excavator was digging the pool.
This is what I was thinking as well.
I don't have a budget for a mini excavator. And I would also have to hire a 2nd operator. In some cases the mini excavator would be ideal but the soils here in Houston are rock free so a skid steer will do the job just fine. Just need to find one that can stand up to the abuse day by day.
Then go talk to your Takeuchi dealer, that would be the best machine for your needs it sounds like.
We use our cat 299d2 to excavate swimming pools. We dig 4 a week, any ware from hard pan all the way down to white sand. The 299 will climb out of a ramp better than the bobcat t770, I find it digs better than the bobcat also. The cat is does not beat you up as much as the Deere or the bobcat. Good luck let us know what you decide to get.
Thanks for the advice, is there any technical reason why Takeuchi would be the better choice for digging in tough clay? Over lets say a bare bones bobcat or cat? Thank you, I will also stop by the cat dealer and have a chat about a 299. They are pricey but if its a work horse i will consider one.
takeuchis are at the top of the list when it comes to brute force in digging. bobcats tend to have weaker drive motors. cant comment on the cat. and the takeuchi hydraulic over hydraulic controls are very nice and easy to use.
Take a look at the 279, I'm impressed so far.
I have a Kubota svl90-2 and it is a great machine. I demoed a tak tl10 and the 90 side by side and the Kubota surpasses the tak. While I know that the tl12 would have been a more fair comparison, it didn't take long to long for me to decide which machine was right for me.
CAT 259, 279, 289 of 299.....loads of power to haul full loads up the ramp. We use out 299XHP and there is nothing it can't power through and the ride is magnitudes of order better than the TAK...this keeps the operator working faster and fof longer periods of time. The 200XHP's are expensive but cost is relative, these machines make very short work out of a pool removal...Time is money in that game as it is in so many others..... Ride control of the new CAT iron is a great feature....good luck and let us know what you end up getting...lots of great equipment on the market these days...
Thanks guys, I went to CAT and liked the 289D, my only concern was that the lift height of the bucket was only 10'5", that will barely clear the top of my dump trucks and not a lot of room to shake the bucket. My John Deere 332E had a similar problem. The T770 has an 11" dump height and this works out. I really like the 289D and it was a very smooth machine and I like how its well thought out as far as ease of serviceability. Another concern I had was the power of the CAT D (269D, 279D, 289D, 299D) machines. They jump from 74hp up to 100. There is no in between. Will a 269 with 74hp perform the same as the 289. They have different ROC but will the force to excavate be much of a difference?
I own and operate three of these model CAT CTL's.., the 259D, the 289D and the 299 XHP....The difference in ROC is due mainly to the weigh of the machine itself and that is the main limiting factor. The 259 does perform every bit as good as the 289, in some case better. The same motor pavkage driving less weigh around proves to be a very good package, for me the 289 is. Big under powered due the size the weigh of the machine itself ...I can climb bigger hills fully loaded with the 259d better than the 289 D but the 289 can carry more weigh. The 299 XHP is an animal and lacks for nothing. It out performed anything on the market today in my opinion. The best thing to do would be to Demo each size on chula work conditions and pick the one that best suite those needs, I think you will find the 259 and the 279 to be all the machind you need. Make sure you get the wrigh pavkage, it will bring up the ROC numbers quite a bit....hope this help. Other son here have great advise as well across varies brands. Hopefully CM will chime bavk in ad he just bought himself a shiny new 279 and He is a wealth of experience and unbiased information....good luck..keep asking questions nd try them all B 4 U buy !
I am torn between the 299D2 and the T770. Both have been optioned to be bare bones pretty much. the T770 is bare bones with no options, I am being quoted $71,000 for the machine The CAT 299D2 I am being quoted $75,592 but it has ride control and an advance display. I am thinking if I can get CAT to get down to the price of the T770 I will go with the 299D2 Any opinions on pricing? Thanks so much for every ones help, its really helped me narrow down on what will work best.
Both machines are open canopy, not cab, heat and a/c correct ? Just wondering. Cat is more hp and but 1000 lbs heavier. Any other options? Power quick tach? With the advance display you can add security codes and backup cam ($400). Maybe get Cat to throw in the cam, wiring is there already.
The 299D2 comes with the following : 299D2 Includes 78” Bucket with teeth, Standard Flow, Manual Quick Coupler, wide track, ride control, and Advanced LCD Display, this does not include closed cab or AC/Heater The T770 comes with a delux instrument panel and a 78" bucket with teeth, no closed cab ac/heat. End the end I think I made the final decision to get the T770 for the simple fact that bobcat will provide a free rental if your machine goes in for any repairs. Cat wasnt offering that, instead they assured me the machine could be fixed in most cases in 24hrs if it did have any issue with their field service techs.
I have ran the t770, and own the 299d2. You will notice that the cat will out dig and climb the bobcat, I fell the cat can dig a swimming pool faster, and I am not as tired at the end of the day. One thing the bobcat has that dam fan that blows out the side of the machine, which means you have hot air blowing off the walls of the pool back on you when you are inside the pool. On a hot day it gives me a headache every time. The 299d2 comes standard with a back up camera. Correct me if I am wrong but, the 3.8 engine is larger in the 299 than the Bobcats 3.4 in the 770 also. If you were to get the cat I would still get the bobcat 80" ci bucket, instead of the cat bucket. Good luck
Thats a good point about the exhaust system. Im battling between bobcat and cat right now, its going to come down to who can provide the best financing at this point. Bobcat is providing 0 down .9% and Cat is requesting 10% down. I will report back by friday which machine takes the win. I'm really hoping CAT can come back with 0% down as I don't want to put any money down because I still am paying for my john deere 332E.
I went ahead and signed for a 2016 299D2. Thanks for everyone's input.
Pics or it didn't happen!! Haha congrats! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have a t770 and a t750 Bobcat, and a t630 and an s590 and a 7753. Bobcat rules around here because our dealer is class A. The other dealers are ok, but not to Bobcats standards in Tulsa Okla. I have two Kubota kx-121's that also are top shelf, but I fell into them cheap. Dealer service means so much. Pool demo is so much fun when you have a highflow breaker too.
:witpic
What does a cab add with heat and AC to the cost of a new ctl these days?
Congratulations on your new 299 let us know how you like it. We love ours you made the wise choice, it is worth the extra dollars. Did u get a cat tooth bucket or the bobcat tooth bucket.
Excellent pick Stickpro...it's a pretty simple pick once you try them all, the BIG CAT and it's features shines....As our Motto goes here on HEF, pictures or it didn't happen my friend ..... Congrats Farmer
Congratulations, the 299 will do anything you need. I demo'ed 289 cat, 750-770bobcat, TL10 tak, 238 new holland, 75 Kubota. Liked the 299 but not at 13k more than the T770 which I ordered and was just delivered yesterday. Dealer also made a big difference for me. This is what makes it great to have so many options, everybody can find what they want. BTW- I have not posted any pictures of my new toy yet...
Sorry for the late response guys, here is a picture of the 299D2 at my yard. I has 36 hours on it, im guessing they used it as a demo unit, but thats fine I'm not complaining. I was too anxious to try it out and went mudding with it. Its been raining a lot recently, but I just had to try it out. The bucket is off of my John Deere, its a 78" bucket. Thanks again guys for all of the advice, I will dig a pool with it Monday morning (if the rain holds out) and will report back. I have a question: When I am sitting idle at 1100rpm or so, the machine will rev up to 2300rpm and just sit there, is there any reason for this?
I was actually quoted 71k for the bobcat 770. I purchased the 299D2 for 73k and it had more bells and whistles.
I believe its around an extra 6-7k for a closed cab with AC and heat. They get up into the mid $80,000s
Wow, that seems high for the T770, I got a cabbed A91 packaged, joysticked loaded, roller suspension, 2 speed, CI bucket with Rezloh edge, weight kit, shop and parts manual for 66K. Cat quoted me a 289 at 74K and a 299 at 80K. The 289 felt like it ran out of power on some jobs, so I would have wanted a 299.
Oh wow, Im glad I went with cat then. I was almost going to sign for the T770 until the brought the price of the 299d2 down. The T770 I was getting was bare bones with self leveling kit and a keypad display. Nothing else.
The Cat tech came out to program the user code in our 279 and we asked him about that as ours does the same, he said if the computer detects low voltage it will automatically speed up the engine to get the voltage back in spec. Our 279 will do it sometimes on start up and then idle back down. Does your 299 have the automatic reversing fan? It's a nice feature.
I purchased a 289D a couple of weeks ago that I really like so far. It replaced a Kubota SVL 75 with about 2500 hrs that was beginning to have issues and the dealers around here (North Atlanta) don't seem to understand the speed of service needed for folks who make money with their equipment vs the gentleman farmers who buy their tractors to cut their grass. They had my machine almost a month earlier this year, which is unacceptable. Yancey has all the parts virtually at their finger tips and can turn you around pretty quick. I figured time to trade in while I still had pretty good value. I got the new 289D, enclosed cab, air ride seat, advanced display and 78" tooth bucket and extended warranty for $61,500. I think I got a decent deal. I have developed a good relationship with my rep, bought a 305E and a D4K last year from him and cat seems very competitive on the smaller machines. All that being said, I believe the increased idle is for burning off the DPF.
Cool thanks for that info. It makes sense. I'm not sure if it has the reversing fan. I don't think it does. It says I have the option: COOLING, FAN, DEMAND.
These are the only two I have of my machine, all my other photos were on my old phone that broke. We were digging a pool and had to crane the machine over the wall. I started digging at 10:00 and the crane was lifting the machine back over at 1:00. We were having a good day that day.
Was it high flow? Based on my dealings with the local cat dealer you got a great deal, they had a 289D XHP demo with 75 hours that they were hard over on 67K. I would have like a 299 and could have lived with a 289 but could not pass up the value the T770 provided. I think the OP got a good deal based on what my cat quoted.
I know that you're using that cutting edge for wall trimming, but is it adjustable for the bottom curve too?
I have never seen the cutting edge design before, and my fathers been in the business since 1993. We have always trimmed the walls by hand with 6" blades with handles, similar to a shovel and driving them downward, standing at the top edge of the pool. I'm always looking for tools to make the job easier and faster.
It is welded to the side of the bucket. The only adjustment I get is when u roll the buck over or back. I usually use the bottom edge to get the bowls on the deep end of the pool.
The cutting edge is a used grader cutting edge welded to the side of the bucket. U make your side cutting edge vertical and you trim the wall that way, it takes a bit of practice but after you get the hang of it only way to go, around here the ground is to hard 75% of the time to trim the wall with the shovel, and this way is so much easier and a lot lees labor involved. If its up to me and I can do the work with the machine instead of the shovel I am useing the machine.
What an awesome idea.
It's a standard flow.
I just wanted to update and say the cat 299D2 now has over 1000 hours of constant pool digging (I purchased new), its been the best investment by far, so glad I went with Cat vs bobcat. No downtown whatsoever with this machine, but our bobcat t450 has been in the shop 5 times already. Big thanks to Stick Pro for his recommendation. I went with the bobcat 80" bucket after all.
Next rain day take the metal guards that go over the hoses from the drive motors down through the sides of the frame under the cab and inspect the hoses. I have had to replace them on both sides at around 1500 hours and it is not fun in the field. We wrapped the new hoses in flexible rubber like tile square.
This bucket can dig square holes without having to relocate the machine: http://www.leadingedgeattachments.com/2way.htm Neill