I am looking to buy a telehandler that weighs around 15,000 lbs., can reach around 36 ft. and lift around 5000 lbs.. My question is which brand and size is best suited for my situation? I am looking for a machine that is reliable. Im not looking for something with alot of bells and whissles. Which models to stay away from. The machine will be used for roofing and pole barn construction.
Skytrak 6036..... no question one of the best telehandlers ever made. Three position steer, great visibilty, rock solid reliable, easy on tires, reasonable price. There are also a ton of used parts out there so its very inexpensive to repair and most all auto parts stores have the basics in stock for tune ups. Second would be a Lull 6044B37. The only reason its second is that there are more moving parts and typically masons owned these machines and they are very rough on equipment. Good luck!
I would have to throw the older Gradall's in the mix as well. I still have a '98 534D6 that I bought new. It has moved a lot of material over the years and performed every time we needed it. Same as barklee said about the Skytrak's - easy to work on, rock solid and most parts can be found easily. You really can't kill 'em although I have tried. I bought a Cat TH460B new in 2005 and was disappointed with the machine, I later traded it in on a 321CLCR track hoe because my work focus shifted. It was a strong machine but it was plagued with electrical issues and had the instrument cluster replaced twice under warranty - when I traded it the fuel gauge went out again but the dealer didn't say a thing due to the history of the repairs. Ol' blue as I call her will always crank and rise to the task, pun intended.
Definitely should have added the Gradalls. They are the same caliber as the Skytraks for all the same reasons. Only one downfall is the lack of three position steering. However, its really only a downfall if you require it i guess.
Are there any years with the skytrack that a person should stay away from? Is there an hour limit I should stick to with this type of machine. I just dont want to get something with one foot in the grave.
Well thats so hard to say....... We have a 1988 Skytrak with 12,500 hours. If you were to look at it im am confident you would think it was only 5-6 years old and had 2500 hours. I personally think as a rule of thumb that around 5000 to 6000 hours is when it seems major problems start happening. That said, i dont usually buy anything with over 3000 hours. However for the right condition and price i would surely look at something with higher hours.
what are your thoughts on rental units? I am a little nervous about the previous usage (abuse) of the machine, but there are alot of them out there.
most used lifts out there, were previous rentals. and i dont think you'll find a lift that goes 36' and 5000lbs, and weighs only 15k pounds. most 36' lifts weigh 20k or more.
Gehl has the RS6-34 that weighs 15,100lbs., lifts 6000 lbs., and reach of 34' 3". I just dont hear much about them. They also have the 553, which has the same specs. I went to an auction to buy one but the price was through the roof (in my opinion). I just dont want one that is know to have boom problems, ect.. I already have a skidloader that is turning into a money pit, I may end up divorced if i buy another one.
I feel your pain. My T250 is nickel and 1/2 dollar'ing me to death. Although my wife would divorce me if I brought home a new which I would like to do.
I had a Gehl 11,000 lb machine and i was not impressed at all. They arent real rugged, look one over real well and you can tell the difference. I have a 10,000 Lull and it would lift considerably more than the gehl any day of the week. I will say that they are set up pretty nice and are not bad to operate but i dont think that offsets the usability factor. I dont think buying one would be a bad thing and im not saying they arent a decent machine, but i do think there are better options out there. Pull up a load chart and see what the maximum capacity is at full reach. I would guess the Gehl is rather light out toward the end.
Well I did what u said and you were right Skytrack has twice the load rating at max reach with 1799 lbs. and the gehl has 900 lbs. Things like this are what i was wanting to know. Using equipment the way that i do to the max, but not abused. I am willing to adjust my requirements to get the durability that is needed to stand up to my construction site needs.
We have one at work with similar issues, half the gauges work, sometimes. A lot if electronics in an open cab, doesn't seem like a good mix. Ours also moves at a snails pace. And the way it takes itself in and out of gear automatically when you brake makes it really hard to be smooth. Was yours the same way? I've ran some older forklifts that weren't as "nice" but they were way faster and smoother.
The square shooter (and those with the Terex name) is built beefy...gets the job done. After it was grouped with Genie, the beef appeared to be shaved but it was rated for a couple more feet of reach.... The Skytrack (which I believe was under Ominquip) had a unique axle pivot control with a three stage valving: free, metered, and lock....but the hydraulic valving were under the floorboard, looked hard to work on and the manual had a great amount of steps just for the operator to verify the operation. The square shooter had a simple system, lock or not locked, and it has a pair of rams (one at each corner) as opposed to only one for each axle...direct drivetrain (not hydraulic) is beefy....the boom has a chain in lieu of cables like one certain blue machine had. But if yard work is needed, those Gradalls in my opinion are the best for yard work cause they move around like a warehouse forklift, but the ops at height aren't set up the same as the other control scheme although you could two hand it, whereas the mode control of the square shooter makes a certain two functions together quite impossible. We certainly did a lot of jobs with those Gradalls but when we went to buy one, we could see the old school machine was going away.... the tires they do wear fast. And yes, crab and four wheel steering seems to be the desired feature these days. Please note: all the above is my experience with 8k machines with about 40 feet reach which many times we wish we had a little more reach, mostly outward, not directly overhead.
Tyler I don't recall if mine did that but it's been a while and to be honest I didn't run it that much. I think Cat tried to be too complicated on the THxxxB's and they created a problematic machine.
There are many good brands of telehandler like Caterpillar, JCB, Matbo etc. You can choose according to your need and specification.
I Have telescopic handler ,it need to add the three segment telescopic boom .if you need,you could see my homepage.
Depends on what your going to use it for. Gradall would be my choice. We've had them all gradall's seem like they're just better overall. They don't have the four wheel steering but rear wheels turn much sharper then other models. I think their turning radius is is actually shorter then the others. The biggest difference is that a gradall is hydrostatic where lull, skytrak, and terex have actual gears. In deep sloppy mud gradall is the worst. I've sank a skytrak and a terex to the frame in mud and drove right on through. In all other situations my pick would be gradall.
I know this is an older thread, but it still applies. I'm also considering a telehandler, I have questions in the design of them, I've been told there are telehandlers designed to lift only then others are designed to dig and lift, can anyone shed light on this for me, I'd like to have the height and the durability to dig as well, how many do both? I'd be happy with that almost 30 foot of lift height, and that 5-6 lift is enough. I want to load trucks with gravel, sand, logs, firewood, and also use it for a work platform and forks on it, to moving lumber and things. I've also been told they make an adjustable basket, that you can maneuver from up on the lift, as an add on, anyone have any experience with those as well, they run off the auxilary hydraulics I'm told, but I've never seen one in person either. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.
I wouldn't do much digging with one unless it is a european design or targeted towards farmers (like Manitou, NH, JD and some CAT and Gehls). In north america they are primarily designed as lifting machine, but in Europe they are mainly designed for farm and light contruction use. The cooling systems, axles and structures are not designed for heavy digging. Think backfilling or moving gravel. If you still want to dig stay away from ZF axes. Not quite the same, but when I worked for Lull we had a guy bend a gooseneck plowing snow when he snagged a curb. ISZ
I would totally agree with that. A USA style machine is not what you want for digging anything, maybe scooping up debris around a jobsite but that's about it. You want an AG style machine. Look at a JCB 531-70, Manitou MLT 625-75, Bobcat versahandlers, or some Cat TH model machines. These are all built for what you need. I dont have experience with any of these machines, we dont ever really have a need for this application. It should give you a place to start though.
i would rent one of each before i buy. i mostly have experience with gradalls. very reliable. they dont like being left out in the rain. i dont like the boom hoist control. too sensitive imho.
Ok, what makes these machines more durable then, from the looks of it, these style machines only have lift heights of less than about 20 feet give or take some, depending on make and model. So if I want height, I need to buy one for that, and if I want to use it for loading gravel, sand, moving snow or things like that I need a different one for those tasks then, if I'm understanding this, is that about right? As for renting one, that's not really an option in my area, for what I could afford to buy, I'd end up buying one wherever and trucking it in, there are virtually no telehandlers for rent in my area, even those that lift higher, we've been trying to rent one, they are either always rented out when I need it, or are sold and no longer around to rent out. Its not something done I guess in my area that much, I'd have to drive a quite a few hours one way to even find to rent, so for short jobs, its not worth it, and after doing that a few times, you might just as well buy one and get on with it. So while on the subject of renting, its been stated in prior threads that the 100 hour mark is the number of hours per year to break even on renting, is that hours on the meter or hours you use it, like for example, in a basket working while the engine is shut off. Most jobs we need it for are to use a basket with a person in it, who's working, in a weeks time, its used every day all day long and we wouldn't put 5 hours on the hour meter of the machine.
99% of the time rent is based on how many days you have the machine and they give you 8 hrs per day. If you are renting by the month they normally dont watch the hour meter. The question about breaking even on one really depends upon what size machine you are going to buy. They vary anywhere from $1400 per month to $3000 per month (depending upon your area). Also on the condition and hours of the machine you buy. I would say that 100 hours per year on the meter wouldnt cover the cost of purchasing one. At 5 hours per day x 5 days = 25 hrs per week x 4 weeks = 1 month rental or 100 hours. Most rental companies do not rent the ag units, they rent the north american style booms so i think you might have a hard time finding one of these to rent. I am not too versed in the AG type machines so i cant really tell you what kind of reach you can get from one. I would call a JCB or Cat dealer and see what models do what you need to do. I was trying to look these up online and i dont want to tell you the wrong machine. If you google JCB Ag handler or Cat Ag handler it brings up each companies offering. I think just about every telehandler manufacturer offers a few models. In the JCB's i think the loadall machines are all set up for digging??
I have a TH63 Cat and It has done well for the 2.5 years I have had it. It lifts 41 feet 6000#. I have forks with tilt carrage and a 5 yard light material bucket for loading sawdust and horse manure it loads a 30 foot demo trailer in 10 buckets and lifts high enough to pack the load getting twice what the loader can get. It uses the same quickattach as the IT 12 and cat backhoes. I mostly run it myself and defnitly could see a dumba$$ break it up with the bucket but if you run it like you have some common sence it will be fine. The bucket can put alot of stress on the gooseneck if you dig with one corner of the bucket. I don't know how to work without it any more I use around the farm for feeding and building barns and for the excavating bussiness it is my shop crain, loading manure for topsoil and tree trimming lift with the basket on the forks. I picked mine up for less then 20K with 1700 hrs and it has definently paid for itself already with very few days it doesnot get started.
i have 3 customers that are building contractors fabbing up hotels, condos etc. each one owns at least three telescoping lifts. they have skytrack, lull and gradall. out of the three the gradall is made the cheapest. breaks constantly. week steering cylinders, electrical probs etc. the skytrak units are made the best. dont get me wrong skytraks have probs too just not as often as the rest. gradall and skytrak are now owned by JLG. if your in the north central us check with lingle equipment in saginaw michigan. i order all my parts through them and get them next day. they have online service and parts manuals and just overall good folks to deal with.
That is my advice as well 06Pete. Randy if you are moving loose materials and know how to operate (which I believe you do) a NA style telehandler will serve you well. I have a 1998 Gradall (bought it new) with tilting carriage, man basket and light material bucket. I have moved many a CY of #57 stone backfilling retaining walls, etc with it and haven't had a problem in 15 years. Of course you have to know the limitations of the machine - it is not an excavating machine. Don't load the bucket with the boom extended, don't ram into a pile and don't try to dig hard ground with it. Loose materials like crushed stone, sand and topsoil can all be loaded with a normal telehandler. You have to adjust how much you load due to the weight of the material - use common sense and understand the capabilities and limitations of the machine you are using. I wouldn't sell "Ol' Blue" as I call her for what she is worth. She's worth more to me to have around for those lifting and high reach chores that come around every now and then. Currently I have it rented for a couple of months to a building owner doing a re-roof on a large industrial building. Not getting many hours, she's earning her keep. I also have two selective demo jobs coming up that Ol' Blue will come in handy with. She's paid for herself time and time again.
Thanks for the information guys, I'm not planning on using it in place of a dozer or skidsteer, I'm just needing it for lifting things higher, and to have a work platform to weld off of and use for some building projects, was my main goal. We do load a lot of logs, but I didn't figure those would be much different than handling lumber. Has anyone seen or ever heard of a swivel single person work platform, and adds about 10-15feet of reach on the telehandler, that can be used as an aerial lift, that moves side to side and also up and down, slides in and out, and runs off the auxillary hydraulics, I've seen them advertised in the past on the internet, but never seen one firsthand, just wondered if anyone had experience with them.
I have seen warnings labels on my th63 about one but never have seen one in person so I know cat made them. I would guess they would be expensive as it does not appear to be alot of them. I would figure that paying a man to move it from the ground would be cheaper than purchasing and maintaing one. I have had the thought of attaching a old bucket truck boom to mine but then think of the trouble to rig up and then how much trouble I could get into with another 30 foot of reach and I leave well enough alone. If you load alot of logs you might want to think of a grapple as logs like to slide off of forks or just add a top clamp to the forks. I would make sure one had the aux. hyd to the forks as the tilt forks help alot and also leave hyd to use for other things such as a grappel.
Also remember the OSHA man when using man baskets on forklifts. I am not the safety police but it's a quick way to get a fine.:cool2 If using a man basket on a telehandler, the basket has to be approved by the manufacturer to be used on the machine. Another thing to consider is a telehandlers "stability triangle". I have learned the hard way that this must be respected.. When you have the lift extended at full range, you cannot move the machine. Adding an additional extending man basket on the fork attachment will change the geometry that the machine was designed for. I don't know how this would work out stability wise but its something I would consider carefully.
That is a really good point, make sure you get a machine that has aux hydraulics mounted on the side of the boom. I have seen a Cat basket that swivels but ive never seen one that telescoped in and out. That doesnt mean they dont make one though. Manitou makes one that fits on their rotating telehandlers but they are about $7000. We have a 20' platform for our machines and it works pretty well for 75% of what we do. They can be a pain sometimes but its inexpensive enough to justify. I would like to get a 10' basket at some point, i think that would be a bit more usable. Those Cat TH63 machines are pretty nice, have you had good luck with yours? Any down sides?
I have had no trouble with mine except one day it would not start moved some wires around it started and never had the problem again. I guess there is a bad conection somewhere but as long as it works I am not going to worry. I haven't found any down sides with the cat the only other lift I have ran is a skytrack and thought it was less operator friendly but OK they all have their blind spots sitting on one side but if you keep the boom low on the cat you can see over it then for a few feet up you have a hard time seeing the right side but then a few feet higher and you can see under it.
I don't know if its true or not, but the basket has to be narrower than the tread with of the machine its on, so less than 8 feet wide at most is legal. As for the basket being made for the telehandler, it has to have the brackets to hook directly up to the machine, no longer are forks that slide in the basket to stab it are allowed, is how it was explained to me. Does anyone know if this is actually correct, I don't fall under osha requirements per say, but its not to say, they couldn't or wouldn't stop in if they saw a machine up in the air and someone in a basket on it.
Ok guys, I've been asking questions, and now more questions to ask someone not selling me a telehandler, what the difference in brands, as far as the mechanical standpoint of each, the lull, skytrack and others, does one run a vehicle automatic transmission where as others run their own transmissions, can anyone shed light on the differences for me, and whats better for getting parts. I tend to keep things till parts are no longer available for them and its a big deal to me. We've been looking at the sky track 5028 and 6036 and the simular lull units, and also the gehl 553's and the newer model of the same unit, can't recall the number 5-34 or something like that. We did ask about the jcb units, but was told parts are really high priced and dealers in my area are pretty short supply, one dealer network in a couple hundred miles with a couple stores. We looked at the terex 6-36 but my dealers are totally new to them and know very little about them. I haven't even located a lull or sky track dealer yet in my area. Thanks for any information.
My first choice out of the machines you listed is the Skytrak 6036 or 6042. We have one with 12000 hours and it still runs like a brand new one. Parts are not hard to find for those, there are a ton of them out there, they are basically built the same since the 80's. My second would be the Terex 6036, they are a very strong machine and still supported by the Genie parts network. The Lull 644 is a great machine but are scarce to find a nice used one. Plus they have more moving parts than other machines and are known to be a bit more maintanence. I wouldnt buy one of those unless you need a traversing carriage. Gradalls are good machines too, i just dont like the fact that they only rear steer. Other than that they really nice machines. You wouldnt go wrong on one if you can get past the steering. The newer JLG machines are basically a Gradall with 3 position steering I would look at some of the Cat machines as well, i dont have much experience with them but several people on here have commented and like them. You probably know the deal with Cat parts already?! Basically all these machines are used by rental houses and they stock parts or can readily get them for about every one. I personally wouldnt buy a JCB or a Gehl. They both are a little spotty to get parts for and have a mixed perception with buyers. If you bought one and didnt like it, i think you might struggle to sell it. My choice bar none would be a Skytrak. I dont think anyone builds a better 6000lb machine, but my opinion might be a little unbalanced!!
Barklee, can you tell me what makes sky traks so much easier to work on, what makes them different than some of the others, and also on the gradall machines can you shed light on the different models, and how the model numbers correlate to the lift heights and what's different about the models, a 524, and there are straight 524's then b models and also c models, along with 534's b models and c models, and the lifts on any are anywhere from 25-37 feet and I'm understanding they are only rear steer, is this on all gradall machines, or was there newer one's that had different steering options, some have perkins engines, some cummins, did they offer different engines or just over the years, they had changed engine manufacturers. How do the transmissions differ in the different makes, I was told some run simple automobile automatic transmissions where others run their own more specilized transmission and drive system. In today's trends of merger mania, who owns what company, are most still independent or bought out by one or two companies and were merged up. I was also told pettibone started it all years back and one of the best all around machines made, I've never seen one, let alone heard of them, are they still even in business today, and if so, whats so much better about them verses the other makes, or is it just personal opinion.
Cat if parts avalibilty is important parts are always available and I find they are not any more expensive than anyone else plus almost all parts are available next day or no more than second day.
The Gradall numbering system has always been a bit confusing to me so i cant really help you there. If its a 534 there should be numbers after that eg. 534 9-45. The 9 is 9000# and the 45 is height. I think alot if not all of the Gradalls have a hydrostatic transmission. I have never seen a Gradall that wasnt a rear steer machine, so i am guessing they only offered that option. I know a few people who have had them over the years and they are a very solid machine. Also being that they dont make them anymore the price is a little better. The only negative i ever heard was that side by side a 6k Gradall couldnt go through the mud like a 6k Cat machine. How often would you ever be in severe mud though? They were bought and sold about a million times to its hard to say on the engine combination. Our skytrak has a Perkins so i wont say anything bad about those engines (older ones anyway). I personally have always thought the Cummins were dogs, but thats just a personal opinion. All these machines in general run either a powershift type 3-4 speed trans or hydrostatic. I cant comment on the hydrostatic as i have never owned one. Of the common machines out there: -Oshkosh owns: skytrak, Lull, JLG, and builds Cat TL models -Terex owns: Terex and Genie -Manitou owns: Gehl, Mustang, Mantou -Skyjack owns: Carelift and Ingersoll Rand (all now called skyjack) -Pettibone owns: Pettibone and Traverse lift -CNH owns: Case, Kobelco, and New Holland machines (i have no idea who builds them) -Alamo Group owns Gradall and dont make the telehandlers anymore (that i know of) JCB is JCB..... I think anymore they are all so similar that its personal preference. I think in each size range and vintage there are machines better than others. You need to narrow down the size and reach you require, then a budget price and we can go from there. I guess if it was me i would at minimum want a 6000# and 42' reach machine. The 36' comes up short more often than not for building type construction work. In the states its easiest to find and get parts for JLG, Terex, or Cat brand machines. Thats really because all the national rental companies use these brands. Another thing to look at is a low boom vs a high boom machine. The low boom is a european design. I have found that you either have to have the boom too low so you can see over it or too high to see under it. I dont have enough experience with all the makes to say they are all that way but i know the Manitou/ Gehls are that way, at least i think.
Thanks for the answers, it helps a lot, next question, which is better, the rollers for the boom's sections or the slide guides, I've seen them both ways, the slides maybe more than the rollers, nobody has ever really said other than when the slide guides get worn, the booms don't extend and retract like they should, but I'm told the slides are easier to repair. As for the size and lift, I originally wanted that 5000 lb and between 28-34 feet, to me, its got more to do with the overall size than the lift per say. Right now I don't have any telehandler, so anything would be an upgrade. To my current needs, I am wanting something over 20 feet, how much more, I'm not really sure at this time, yea the more the better, to a point, then it gets to where its too large to do 50% of what I need to do, cause its physically too large to get in where I need to. I'm wanting a jib boom to raise rafters, but I only have one large building to do, sometime in the next few years, otherwise its just mainly remodeling and renovation and the height is for a work platform more than physically lifting anything. I need to do painting of some buildings, right today, 35 feet high would be plenty good for most anything I'd have to do. As for the price range, the cheaper the better, two reasons, first is I really don't know what I want in a machine, let alone after I'd get it, what other jobs I'd have for a machine if it were larger or with more height, once I figured out exactly what I wanted, I could always upgrade, we've rented a couple of gehl 553 size machines, with 34 feet of lift, worked great and I thought it was about the idea size, but I only used it a few days, also rented a couple of jcb 506 machines, not as handy or compact as the gehl, but worked fine. I was thinking somewhere in the 5-12k range in price, something to use for a few hundred hours till I figured out exactly what it was I wanted, I've checked on renting or leasing, and unless its an almost new if not new, its not an option, and I'm not wanting or affording that much of a machine, let alone justify one that high priced. Some of the gradall machines, older ones sell for my price range, is why I was asking about them, most cats are higher priced, same as the skytrak's and gehls, terex isn't overly high priced, from the auction results I've looked at. This machine in all reality wouldn't get more than 50 hours per year on the hour meter, but a lot of hours up in air with someone in the basket, weeks worth of time spent using it for a areal lift and the engine shut off. After I figured out exactly what it is I wanted I could always upgrade, sell the old one at auction and move on, was my thought, rather than spend 15-25k on a used one to only find out, I hated it and wanted something completely different for size and lift height or options or whatever. I have rented aerial lifts in the past, mostly less than 32 feet in height and did anything I needed doing, just they are few and far between, that and a total pain to keep working, with all the electronic controls and switches.
I think youre going to have a challenge picking up a nice machine for that price range. I watched a Pettbone 6044 sell for 11,000 last month and i thought that was a really good buy. It had around 6000 hours on it though. Although for what your doing that might work. Im not sure about the roller question. The only machine that i know of is a Terex that uses the rollers and i think they use wear pads also. I guess really for what you are doing i would think any of the above would work. I would say that the majority of the time you are going to get your best deal on a discontinued machine or an off brand. There are a ton of Gradall, Skytrak, JCB, Lull, Terex machines out there. Im sure if you shop you can find a nice machine for a good price. I am kind of looking for a 6000# machine i can keep at the shop all the time, but i have to be able to steal it. For me, im not going to look at anything older say than about 1998. It just seems to me that you never get done fixing odd little problems on machines older than that and i refuse to own anything that is constant problems. We started out with 1985-1986 Condor man lifts and it was literally every 2-3 days and you were replacing a hose or wiring or fuel repairs on those machines. They werent even worth having on a job for all the down time. Even to use around the shop it wasnt worth it. We could have rented machines for the cost of those lifts over the 5 years we had them. If you find a machine worth looking at heres a few things i look for. Oscillating carriage bushings, rear ends, drive shaft joints, wheel hub seals, steering knuckles, tires, boom wear pads front and back, inner boom hoses, boom chains, insure transmission shifts smoothly through all gears, run booms out completely and sight them for twisting damage or dings. Obviously you know all the other things to check out. Good luck and let me know if you find another really cheap machine!
Sky Trak 5028 is a very weak power wise with a NA cummins. The transmission is a C6 I think. You would be much happier with a 6036 or 6042. As far as the LULL 644, Barklee didn't mention if he meant 644B, 644D or 644E. The 644B has about 85% commonality with the 844C so it is overbuilt. Visibility to the rear is limited. The 644D is a handy little machine but it does have weak gearboxes and gets rust in the fuel tank. A side engine machine with good visibility. This is the lightest of the three mentioned with the least produced, so it will be the cheapest. The 644E has 85% common with the 944E so it is overbuilt. Another side engine, but with a high boom, so it has excellent visibility. If you find a 644K it is the same as a 644B without transaction, though it can be converted with the addition of the cylinder, rollers and a valve section. Gehl and Mustang are identical machines, formerly Dynalift. Very heavy built, not the best visibility. Fairly simple design except the newer 519. Terex/Square Shooter - I believe Terex bought the design from Hyster. Old school design, very basic. Rollers are old school design, before UHMW nylon was easy to get. Rollers aren't as good since they point load the boom box, need grease, and require a taller boom. Pads do wear out, but of more concern is that they should be shimmed as they wear to keep the boom tight. I know that Lull and Sky Trak have a champher on the pads as a wear indicator, when the champher is gone change the pads. Otherwise you wear wear down to the bolts and trash the boom. ISZ
Thanks I learned more in the last few posts than the last few years asking locally. So is gradall a completely obsolete machine, or does someone still have parts available for them? If the 5028 skytrak runs a c6 transmission, what does the 6036 run for a transmission, there are two sides to this issue, first is, anyone can get a c6 transmission whereas a dedicated transmission, like is in a jcb, is far higher priced and a must to get from a dealer when needed, the jcb might be better, but also much higher priced and limited availability at times, I just talked to a mechanic this week who's working on a jcb transmission, the case alone is 10k and on some models, no longer available, they're going to junk out the machine due to the high cost and age of the unit, otherwise its not in bad shape, just the parts exceeded the value of it. One owner told me he thought cat parts were high priced, jcb is about the same and nothing on them is standard stuff available anywhere else, something I'm trying to avoid. As for engines, my thoughts are either deere or cummins, the deere has sleeves and can be overhauled, the cummins is a sleevless engine but plentiful and parts are available locally for me, perkins isn't as common and for me harder to get parts for, I'd opt to avoid any ford engine, jcb, or some of the others. What axles do these machines run, axles they built themselves or something they used off of something else and are readily available anywhere for parts. I know I don't want a sliding carriage machine, we've already ruled them out, far too many moving parts and for me, little benefit of any sort that I could see for anything I'd have, I could see on certain things, they'd be worth their weight in gold, but not for my work or needs. As for going through mud, not really a concern, I'm mostly on cement, or indoors and if outside, if its muddy I'm doing other things, I couldn't get my welder close enough to the lift to work anyhow. ISZ, what do you mean by the terex being old school and very basic design? What makes them different, compared to the others? As for the price, its just a starting point, those with plenty of cash, can have instant gratification on purchases, those of us with limited cash, are by default made destined to do a lot of looking and asking questions to figure out what to buy and what not to buy and hopefully do it once, rather than trade at every whim when the next need or desire arises, something I've become used to over the years. I guess I'm trying to figure out, what's important to me, and that trade off of for a few thousand more, I could have a certain upgrade or option that would make it worth it to me, which at this point in time, I don't know yet, if that makes sense. Nobody has mentioned outriggers? I have also noticed, most telehandlers don't have any on them either, except the larger ones, 40 plus feet in height or over 8k, usually 9 or 10k machines, can they be added to any machine, if so, how or do they need to be installed new? To me, not ever using a machine with them on, I'd think I'd like them, for stability and eliminate the sway in even slight winds or doesn't it work like that? On the man lifts I've been using, the sway drives me nuts trying to weld and my thought was outriggers on boom machine that doesn't pivot would greatly cure that problem or am I thinking wrong or just dreaming? The question a while back about the boom with a basket, was strictly for welding, I could angle or do whatever I needed while in the basket to get into position to weld, and most of the sway would be eliminated, instead of the sway being from ground level, the base of the machine would be more stable and only up on the end by me, would things be movable, greatly reducing the sway and making my job far easier, I know this means little to 98% of the people, but was what I was thinking, maybe I'm totally wrong, thus the idea of spending few dollars, if I'm right and it would work, I'd have died and gone to heaven and then spend more money and upgrade, if not, to auction it would go and start over rethinking the whole process again. I've never seen one of those basket arms in person, and haven't seen them advertised in a while, but everyone I ask, keeps thinking I'd want to lift something off them and can't comprehend needing to move only a few inches sideways and then extend out a few inches to get into the ideal position to do a weld, then change again for the next, the person on the ground either can't hear you in the wind or background noise, or just can't seem to get me where I need to go every few minutes and this was my idea to solve that problem and still have a machine to do other things and use as a telehandler as well. Are outriggers readily available and can they put on machines that don't have them and do they stabilize the machine to eliminate most of the sway, on pivot machines, like swing manlifts or articulating lifts, the sway comes from the pivot portion of the lift, not the extension portion of the lift?
I truly dont know if anyone makes Gradall parts anymore. I do know that many of the parts are off the shelf items when you really think about it..... I.e. engine parts, trans parts (not proprietary like JCB), hoses, many hydraulic parts, etc. If you needed say, wear pads, i dont know for sure if they inner change with a JLG machine? The booms look identical though. I personally wouldnt worry about that with the Gradall. On the outriggers..... Generally speaking they are only installed on a larger machine 10,000# lifts. However, some 8,000# Lulls, Gradalls, Etc have them. I have no idea the rhyme or reason to that and i dont think they do that anymore on the JLG branded machines or Cats. The older TH model cats had them on just about every machine. Several of the JCB machines also have them. My opinion is that they are a pain in the arse, although handy in a rare situation. I really wouldnt worry about having them given what you are doing with the machine, but thats up to you if thats valuable. The only complaint i have ever really heard on the JCB machine is the transmission is weak and extremely expensive to replace. As i understand they are JCB built along with the engines but i dont think parts are hard to get for them..... at least i wouldnt think so. Having worked off these machines for several years i have never really found them wobbly like a man lift. You are correct in that most of the play comes from the turret rotation of a manlift. I dont think you are really going to get away from the fact that they are a little bouncy, with or without outriggers. Maybe foam filled tires over calcium filled would be a little less bounce without the riggers? Sorry, i was talking about the Lull 644C models. They are very heavy duty and a good machine. I would buy a 644C with 5000 hours over a new 644E any day of the week. The new machines have a side mount engine and about half the iron of the older ones. Why they ever changed a great thing i will never know?...? It just seems to me that the 644c machines were always owned by guys who beat the tar out of them (like us!) and when they get sold they are pretty well worn out. With that said, i think any of the machines we have been talking about would more than do the job, but its condition that is king. I dont know enough about the old Terex square shooter machines to be able to tell you the differences, i will leave that to ISZ. He would know way more than me. I havent heard anything bad about them though and have run a SS1048 before. The only thing i can remember is the sight lines arent very good.
Outriggers are pretty much required on 10k machines to keep the vehicle GVW down. They are optional on some 8k machines because they get more reach for a given load, but most people don't want to deal with the cost, weight, reduced visability and the requirement to set them anytime you shoot the boom farther than 5ft. I didn't see too many 8k machines with outriggers sold while I was at Lull. I haven't seen a Terex up close in 10 years, but the machines of that era were fairly crude compared to the competition. As I recall some of the cylinders were tie-rod/ag style, whereas everyone else uses dedicated welded cylinders. The bad think is this puts the counterbalance valves in a remote block instead of on the cylinder. Plus the seals are probably lower quality. The operator station was like something from '75. They hadn't put much money into them since they were bought from Hyster. The only good thing about a 5028 is the easily sourced trans, everything else sucks. The power is so low that if you stop with the wheels up against a curb you won't be able to go over it, you need a running start. Nothing you probably don't already know, but JCB and CAT parts will be the most expensive. If you want to use a man basket on this machine be forewarned. You must use a manbasket sold by the OEM or risk a fine by OSHA. You are also required to have an operator within about 15-20ft of the controls at all times. They can work while you are up top, but they have to be in the area and can't wander off. ISZ
Thanks for all the information, I'm not exactly sure what I'm going to do yet, but at least now, I'm more informed about what to look for. I was seriously thinking the 5028 model but now I'll pass on that machine and focus on a 6036 machine of some sort.
I don't know if you have something against cat or not but Michagan Cat has a TH63 listed for $14,500 6000 hrs with enclosed cab listed on machinery trader. It looks prety good and at that price I don't think you would have much trouble getting rid of it if you don't like it.
I'll check it out 06pete, as for anything against cat, everyone has their own opinion about companies and dealers they deal with and the people at those dealerships, and have past history of equipment and repairs performed over the years. I don't have anything against cat, its just I prefer other brands machines and how they are designed and repair friendly better is all, but I haven't looked at any of cat's telehandlers yet or researched them as of yet, but I will, I have to compare them to other brands, its the only way I know who's are easier to fix and the main reason I asked questions here, to gain knowledge of what to look for.
From the ease to work on the engine, a side mounted engine is the way to go. However, i have heard several people say that it takes away from the power doing this instead of the center mounted engine. I dont know which way is true regarding the power but i had a Gehl 11000 machine with the side mount engine and it was a breeze to access and do about anything you wanted to do. That TH 63 has the side mount engine so it would be pretty easy to access that part of it. Just a thought........
The side mount engine gives you better visibility, especially with a high mount boom. (Lull 644E/944E for example) With the forks raised 3ft off of the ground you can see almost all the way around you. Low mount booms aren't all that good. The OEM's will say it is a good design to get sales, but in reality with the forks 2-3ft off of the ground the boom usually blocks your view to the right. The negative with side engine machines is that a large chunk of weight has now been moved forward on the chassis. To get the capacity back they need to add more counterweight than a rear engine machine. You also cheat the front wheels as close to the forks as you can, but obviously there is a limit. And no, the fuel tank can not be counted as counterweight. (but the hyd reservoir can) It's hard to go wrong with a 6036. If you are hard on equipment stay away from ZF axles. (ZF transmissions are very good though.) The Legacy models have a divorced trans and some had issues with the coupling on the engine, but they should have been changed out by now. As far as transaction increasing your maintanance bills, others can chime in but I never heard that complaint. Most people like having that extra 80" of reach. They are expecially popular with brick layers. ISZ
Icestationzebra, I'm not sure which models have the ZF axles and ZF transmissions, could you explain some, so I could tell by looking at different machines what axles and transmissions they have. I don't think I've ever been around anything but a side mounted engine machine, such as the gehl 553 and jcb 506 machines, as far as the low boom mount machines, verses the high boom mount machines, I'd guess its the difference between the ag style verses the conventional higher reach telehandler, if this is wrong, again please explain. I have seen before a koehring 5025 with the engine in the back and the boom across the top of the cab, the cab is centered on the machine and it looks like a basic forklift engine and base, with an extendable boom instead of a forklift mast on it. My thought on this style was your basically looking up at the center bottom side of the forks, instead of a slight sideways view of the forks, which would make this very difficult to see anything on the forks per say, but I've never run one before, it was just an observation I noticed by looking at it. I was thinking a side mounted engine machine was what I was wanting, but I've never run anything else.
Here's a simple question, do most telehandlers, have the feature of leveling forks, or when the forks are on the ground, level, they stay level as they raise to full height? I've never paid attention to the one's I ran, but a question my wife just asked me, since she's going to be running it too, its a feature she wants, so I thought I'd ask here first.
Most of them you have to level the whole machine not just the forks. The suspension can roll the body side to side, but it's up to the operator to do it (the control is in the Cab and can be used on the fly). Also, the suspension is fixed in what ever position you put it in. Over uneven terrain it can be slow going with an awkward load.
Yes, im almost positive the forks self level as the boom raises and lowers. I have never seen one that didnt. I would agree with ISZ that the low boom machines do not have as good visibility. Either the boom is too low and the mast blocks your front right view or you have the boom so high to see 180 degrees that you are worried about hitting lines, trees, etc. I wouldnt personally be interested in a low boom but thats personal preference. As for the traversing machines, such as a lull. They inherently have more moving parts I.e rollers, pads, all the boom hoses bending back and forth, an extra hydraulic circuit and cylinders. They are notorious for destroying the rear wear pads, rollers, the whip hoses in the back of the boom. I just was saying that if you dont need the traverse feature i wouldnt focus on it. We have two Lull 1044c's and they are very well built and reliable. Again the 644C model Lull is a good machine, they are just hard to find a nice one. I would personally hold that machine in the same regard as the Skytrak. I guess my most important comment would be that if you think you can get away with a say 30' machine, buy a 36' machine. If you think you can get away with a 36' machine buy a 42'. You will never ever regret the extra reach. I would take the manuveribility trade off for the reach any day of the week. Also, i dont think a Skytrak 6042 has a whole lot bigger foot print than a JCB 506 or a Gehl 553. I also dont think theres a big price diffence between a 6036 to a 6042 or a JCB 506 to a JCB 506HL (high lift 42'). I believe we have spicer axles on our lulls and clarks on the other machines. I think they are related somehow though. Never had any problems besides our guys tore the spider drives out of a lull machine from turning full speed on blacktop with a heavy load. I also think the Lulls have ZF trans and the others have clarks. Never had any issues with either besides some basic wiring problems. I know spicer has a metal tag on their axles and ZF has a stamp on their shifters and a metal tag on the trans.
Yes I'm sorry, the forks will stay at what ever tilt angle you set them at. Around my area, level on a forklift refers to the chassis, side to side.
A low pivot boom is not necessarily an ag machine. Traditionally all construction machines were high pivot, but that started to change in the late 90's. There is some movement towards smaller low boom machines for tight work sites and for smaller jobs like unloading trucks. As far as the ZF axles go, I believe there is a plat on the axle with model and s/n. ISZ
There is a switch on the left side of the dash that will take the auto neutral off when you press the brake. I seldom use it for the same reason as it make you jerky if you are on and off the brakes. I generally just switch to neutral when I am ready to scope out. Our th 460b is in an enclosed cab. Do some come with open cabs. Is that why everyone says these machines have electronic dash problem. No doubt that would be a problem with rain all over the dash. Our machine is going on 9 years old, and we have not had any electronic problems.
Telehandler Check out Merlo telehandlers. http://www.manulift.ca/
If I understand you then the older the Lull the heavier built? The TT are oldest, are they good machines? I know they are old but are they solid, well powered? Is there are a real difference in the B & C? I've looked at a couple of 844TT and 644TT. Also, I guess I should be looking at SyTrak 6036s.
The Highlanders have their loyal following but the 644B/844C/1044C is a better machine. The chassis are similar but the B/C use nylon pads, parts are readily available, solid driveline and simple hydraulics. JLG acquired LULL/SkyTrak in 2003 and I think they put ZF axles on them at some point, I would shy away from them. ISZ
Lull 644E-42 Telehandler (Quick Specs 6,000 lb (2,722 kg) carrying capacity 42 ft (12.8 m) maximum lift height) OR, SkyTrak Telehandler 6036 (Quick Specs 6,000 lb (2,722 kg) carrying capacity 36 ft 1 in (11 m) maximum lift height) OR JLG G6-42A Telehandler (6,600 lb (2,994 kg) carrying capacity 42 ft (12.8 m) maximum lift height) are the Best for you...
Most of the devices that keep the forks in the same position as set as the boom is lowered or raises consists of a cylinder mounted vertical at the back of the boom. The boom going up or down pulls or pushed this cylinder displacing oil to the fork lift cylinder. One thing to watch on these is that in cold winter weather they do not work reliably until the boom has made a number of up and downs warming the oil that is captured in the leveling system. I witnessed this first hand last winter when a good operator new to the lift backed away from a three story building with a raptor tie off system on the forks and as he was lowering the boom for the first time that day they gradually tilted a bit forward and the raptor slid off doing major damage to it. Another operator seen it happening and could not catch him in time.