Looking at either a komatsu 61ex15 or a cat 963 trackloader. Use would be building grassback terraces and repairing terraces in farm fields. Pushing trees to pile and piling them up after hoe has knocked them over. Also hogging dirt filling in ditches and such after land clearing. 963 has a 4in 1 bucket and rippers, d61 has 6 way blade. Advantages to loader i can see are would be able to stack trees alot higher than dozer. able to clear along with hoe if needed be. would be able to scoop dirt out of terrace channels and carry it back up the hill easier. Also when pushing dirt up backside of terrace sometimes its hard to unload your blade because your on such a up incline where with loader could just dump it. Advantages to dozer would be wider blade(10' compared to 8') Wider pads(24" compared to 22") easier grading and finish work. Ability to angle and tilt blade. Dozer has a little wider stance(only about 4 inches) Dozer has more aggressive pads(single grouser compared to double). Which one will push harder? dozer or loader? Dozer is about 10 more hp but around 10000 less weight. Have no need to load trucks FYI. Any insight into which on will work better? Having a hard time making up my mind and also never running a trackloader before. ANy help is appreciated thanks
Being a dozer guy but I always wanted to be a track loader guy. For what it sounds like you do. A track loader would be perfect. Think it would be more value able clearing land to you. 4 and 1 and rippers makes it even better. Only advantage to the dozer is the finish work and once you get used to that track loader don't think you will have a problem
Like CM1995,,,,, track loader all the way!!!
How old is the 963? I do similar work and in my opinion the early 963's with a 4 cyl engine were a little short on power. I would personally lean towards the loader esp if its a 963B or C. If you are pushing terraces from the backside you will prob be short on traction so you will either need to put single grouser pads on it or weld bars on the double grouser pads.
Its an 04. Thinking if i go the loader route will have to replace pads. The one machine i looked at had very narrow pads. Guessing 18"? No way they were 24" pads. Think with that narrow of pads and double bar grousers would do alot of spinning.
On solid ground narrow tracks will spin less, more pounds of ground pressure per square inch of track; also, the narrowest track that will stand up on the ground you're going to work on is always the cheapest per hour. Wider the track, the more stress on the undercarriage, and the harder it is to turn. Also, most narrow track machines don't have clearance to run wider pads.
The dozer being lighter with the six way blade is for finish and light dirt. I wouldn't use it in very big brush. If it had a ripper it work better. I like a loader if you only have one machine and push brush. Finishing takes longer with a loader and harder to do as good a job at least for me. I don't like a 4 in 1 bucket, they just don't seem to cut as well. I run the narrow pads with single grouser and grip is really good. If you have access to a excavator I would probably lean towards the dozer. They make a great combo with the right operators.
I think you should be able to put 21"-22" pads on that 963. Not 100% for sure on that though. Pushing terraces from the backside with double bar pads doesnt work very well in my part of the country anyway. I would definitely lean towards the loader. You might consider taking the bucket off and putting a blade on it. Around here that is pretty popular.
Does a manufacturer make a blade that would fit on a 963 or would you just buy a used on and start cutting and welding?
I did run across an aftermarket setup once that included a blade, bucket and root rake with a manual quick coupler. I just cant remember who made it though. Most of the ones that I know of have gotten a used blade and fabricated it to fit the machine.
If it's a 2004 model it's most likely a 963C. 22" is the widest track shoe fitted as standard.
I'm leaning towards getting a excavator to take some of the load off of my old 963 and to take some of the beating off my aging body. I've looked for a quick attach blade six way blade setup for a loader and it seems they don't exist. A 953 with a quick attach with a bucket, six way blade and a root rake would be great to work with a excavator. As for the wider pads on a 63 they might help a little but if it's that muddy a man probably ought just stop. I really hate working in the mud, poor machine gets so choked down with the clay we have it does good to pull itself. I have seen one with swamp pads that were standard width on the inside of the bolt pattern and hung way out. It had a 10 foot or so bucket on it.
:yup The only thing to consider is the loader will be much heavier and burn more fuel than a similar sized dozer. That being said if I were only looking at one machine it would be a track loader. A loader and an excavator is quite the team when it comes to land clearing. If you put new shoes on it I would get the widest ones that will fit.
I would think the 963 would flat out push more. Never ran a dozer though. I do quite a bit of general ag type work as you describe and there is no way I'd trade my 953 for a 6 way dozer. When bulking dirt I can set it up to slot doze and move a surprising amount of dirt, I can take out 30" trees and then move them around on the ground, I can stack brush higher than a dozer, I can carry dirt to fill random holes, I can pick stuff up on a chain, turn the bucket down and the teeth make a decent rake. I love my track loader!! For general purpose work and most ag work it is a great machine and a 63 with a little more weight, power and lift would be terrific. I'm not sure what I'd do with a dozer that just pushed things. John
a 963c weighs close to same as a D6R. if you are comparing a dozer to a loader this is apples to apples. for terrace work there is no way I would take the loader over that 6R. if you are digging a basement or loading trucks, that is a whole 'nother thingy..
I have a 953c with a quick attach that easily allows me to swap from bucket to blade in a couple mins. It is a Balderson 10' dozer blade and will move a tremdous amount of dirt. It is plenty big for the 953 and actually was designed for a 963 so we don't overload it, it would be perfect for the grass back terraces with the steep backs.
Do you think this works as good as a finish dozer with the six way blade? It seems it would be the best of all worlds, a bucket for hard cutting and digging, blade for finish and maybe a root rake, almost makes it a great big skid loader. What part of Mo. are you in? I would be interested in looking at that setup.
I would agree with oldirt if you were strictly building broadbase (farmable) terraces. If you are building grass back or narrowbase terraces a 963c will run circles around a D6R with equally talented operators. In my opinion. In the early 90's I worked for a guy who had a 973 with single grouser tracks and a 12 ft blade. I still think that was the perfect terrace machine. That being said, I own 2 D65's doing farm type work primarily because I'm still a little suspicious of the hydrostat transmissions in the loaders when epuipped with a blade and single bar grouser pads.
I agree that a big loader with single bar grousers and a big blade will act like a big dozer.. but the hydro in them is not built for that. I have driven both, really like the loader but a tilt blade really speeds things up in conservation work. I know a guy who insists on using a 973 with a blade he grafted from an old D7, but for what he spent he could have had a 6T. as for "running circles around" a 6R, that would be stretching things a long ways, but a 973 is actually comparable to a D7, not a 6.
ghammy, I am in Higginsville, you are correct the loader with quick attach is just like a giant skid loader, a very handy tool for any job. I would be glad to meet u anytime and show it to you, just let me know when you head this way. Where are u located?