Of all the Skid Steers on the Market who make the Best. I know this questions is loaded. But everybody got their reason why their machine will out last the other. But considering the initial cost, repair cost, downtime, if you were only going to own just one in a lifetime which one would it be. Go For It Fellows Thanks Bubba
If I had to stick with one brand and machine it would be a Case 440S3. It has all the features that are important to me(cab/heat, 2 speed, quick tach, ride control) and has massive power in the mid size chassis yet was reasonable price wise(I think, lower $30's).
Well its a bit old now, but if I could buy a brand new Bobcat 743B today... that'd pretty much last me the rest of my life.....thats a loaded answer...
2011 or newer JCB/Volvo skid steer; too many reasons to list.
We like the Bob Cat brand cause we have a good dealer in Tulsa. We can rent one before we buy and once you learn to operate one you are in. They are tuff little monsters too. Parts are ready over night too.
Newholland is a very good machine! I get 10 years or 6000 hrs with no major problems.
sounds like something my grandpa would say to answer the question: bobcat hands down, my S185 has 6000 HARD hours on it and I think it could go another 6000 easy
Based upon the resale prices on Case 1845C series they have to be a good machine. Never owned one but have run them and found them to be a good machine.
Did you buy one yet Dave!? Not trying to hi-jack the post, just curious. If you don't want to say, no biggie.
New Holland, I've owned 3 (1 LS 180 and currently 2 C 185's) and think they are great machine with good visibility and cost a whole lot less upfront if you buy new. I know there pins aren't as heavy duty as a cat or have all the bells and whistles but it will get the job done. The new 200 series are adding features like ride control and better pilot controls which makes them more bang for your buck. Plus how can you beat the reach and toughness of the "super boom"
ABC..... anything but CAT!
Why no Cat?
Dont listen to the Cat comment!!!!!! The wheel machines are great my 246B has 5000+ hours with very little trouble. I liked them so much i bought a new one. I would also agree with the Bobcats, i had a 763 that was used at a landfill, every inch of that machine was beat to a pulp. I bought it with 6000 hours on it and put another 2000 on it with very little trouble and got more than i paid for it when i sold it. That was a great little machine and i will never say a bad word about those machines or the 185 or 773 models. Great resale, great parts availablity, great usability (except for the foot controls) sorry guys had to say it!
Would probably have to consult my attorney before answering all the reasons why not... but to put it simply, the major track engineering issues, probably some of which they knew about before sending out to customers.... and from what I've heard across the country, the pride issue and not listening to their customers when there is an issue is the reason why I won't even where Cat branded underwear. To be a good company, you have to have a good machine and stand behind your customers - good, bad and ugly!
Had a 262C, Cat wheeled machine also before we got into the Cat tracked machines. Was a good machine except for - hydraulic pump imploding at 50 hours, oil pan crack at 300 hours and this was due to (I kid you not) work orders comment was "engine set down hard during assembly" and then engine frying at 310 hours due to Cat mechanic installing new oil pan incorrectly, at least that is what they said. Somehow, during the oil pan assembly....and I'm no mechanic, it was done incorrectly and the motor starved. Those of you that are mechanics would probably understand more about what went wrong. You would think I would have learned... not saying that all Cat's are bad, but there is a huge variation in the good and bad. So far, out of 4 Cat machines, I've had 4 bad Cat experiences. From what little I've been around Bobcat, seems they have a little better grasp on making the skid steer thing work. One positive I have liked about Cat....is there is room around the engine, although not much, and the radiators are easy to get to and clean out.
Well the tracks that cat used were engineered for ASV. ASV built their whole skid steer around the tracks balancing the weight evenly. Cat just pulled the tires off and slapped on tracks it's not surprising it would have problems
That is exactly right. A fact lost to a great many people.
Bobcat, I have 2 that I have used for going on 30 years Both are 975. I have never had to spend over $1000 (except for a motor which was caused from running the machine upside down) for all repairs on eather machine. and both machines have over 10,000 hours on them.
Bet you won't do that again....intentionally. I'm not sure about their newer machines, but for anything in the older series, I'd say Bobcat as well. I've had a 453 that went through hell....literally. It came from a local smelter and was used in the basement of the absorption plant.......metal dissolves from the inside out if it's been within spitting distance of that place. It didn't give me an ounce of trouble. I also used to run a 743 and a 763 for some friends of mine, no real issues with either, and we weren't overly kind to either of them. We also have a worn out 873 at work, and the only issues we ever have with it are blow hoses, but with it's age, it really isn't surprising.
Nice info guys
All these replys and no mention of Takeuchi? Ill agree with the CAT comments. Had nothing but trouble from my 257. Oil pump cracked and 800hrs, seized the engine, AC compressor siezed up igniting the belts on fire. Alternator went out, 2 starters, numerous boggies and bearings. Seemed like every 2-3hrs of use required 2hrs maintance. If there were more of an aftermarket parts source for CAT if may not be as bad but if its yellow, go ahead and plan on droping some changed. Not to mention the machine lacked power. Sold and replaced with a Takieuchi TL130 and let me tell you. Night and Day difference with design, tuffness, and power.
Doesn't Takeuchi make the skid steer for New Holland?
Not that I'm aware of, I know case and new holland are tied together but haven't heard anything about Takeuchi, got me interested on that I will have to look.
Takeuchi makes the tracked machines for Gehl and Mustang.
That makes sense. They share a lot of the same styles with tracks and frame build it seems
That arrangement has come to an end.
For both of them? I had heard rumours that they were going to stop producing for one of them, but not both.
Well now that you say that I not certain it is both but since Mustang and Gehl are the same I would assume that it would apply to both lines. It would surprise me if Manitou would develop their own track machine and only sell it through one line and buy TK's machine for the other, but I guess its possible.
As has been mentioned, Cat partnered with ASV to use the ASV track system. ASV has basically evolved from a builder of snow cats for trail grooming. That type of crawler has relatively light tractive effort duty and higher ground speed compared to ground engaging skid steers. So ASV was always concerned about a suspension system to smooth out the bumps for the higher ground speeds. They developed and applied a system of equalized bogie wheels on rocker arms similar to the large high track Cats. The ASV objective of high ground speed, suspension systems, is similar to the objectives of automotive design rather than bulldozer design. Because of this automotive-like mindset, ASV also chose to use rubber tracks made by Souci. Those tracks are driven by molded rubber lugs on the inner side that engage a lantern sprocket. Souci tracks require a sprocket, idler, and rollers that are nearly as wide as the track in order to spread the load out on the track belt. The other type of track made by Bridgestone and others; used on Bobcat, Takeuchi, and others has metal embeds molded into the track. These tracks are driven by a conventional plate sprocket with its teeth engaging the metal embeds through holes molded into the track. Metal embed tracks do not require sprockets, idlers, and rollers to be nearly as wide as the track like Souci tracks do because the metal embeds spread the weight out to the full track belt width. However, to an automotive-minded company like ASV, the metal embed tracks seem overly heavy, clunky, and too bulldozer-like. Because the ASV history is based on snow cats, and snow is soft, ASV track systems are maximized for floatation. So when they introduced their first ground engaging skid steer called the Possi Track, it was championed as having exceptional floatation, so it could work in mud and water. But it was generally considered by many to be under-built for the heavy ground engaging work. It was fast, smooth, and could handle the most difficult terrain, but it did not hold up well to heavy digging and grading.
I was close to getting an ASV before I chose new holland. I was interested in the SR 80 but I didn't like how the fuel tank wrapped around the outside and into the front. Being a fence builder I was concerned with piercing the tank with a T post or brush. Otherwise I think they an awesome machine and would love to own one down the road someday.
Would definitely agree with Cat just slapping an ASV undercarriage on and not building the machine around the undercarriage system. Probably why when we used to run ASV, didn't seem to have nearly the undercarriage problems....although there were other issues. That balancing probably has a lot to do with why the MTL's are self destructing on Cat's. In a years time, we had 2 axles break and 3 that were bent on 2 machines. 4 of the 5 failures were on the front axles. Cat blamed the fecon bullhog .....which was ironic since every time they came out they tried to sell their own line of bullhog to me....which I believe is an FAE. One of the skid steers ran nothing but a shear plus the fact that the bullhog is half the weight of what these skid steers are rated to carry. Typical Cat....even their sales man complained that Cat Corp needs to shut the **ll up and fix the problems instead of laying blame on everybody else. On another note, ....an independent mechanic I know who deals strictly with heavy machinery keeps trouting that when the Cat's finally go we should look hard at Takeuchi. From what I've heard, they are built like a tank but I have no personal experience with them.
I had a Hydramac Commander 4200 rubber track loader for about ten years and used it to do residential grading projects. Those Commanders were known for being hard on tracks because Hydramac and Bridgestone were not on the same page during the development phase. But that little Commander would really get the job done. I bought a new Takeuchi under the Gehl brand and used it for one season. The Takeuchi is a brilliantly engineered machine. They use the Bridgestone type rubber tracks with the metal embeds in the most perfectly designed high sprocket track system I have ever seen. It handles and moves dirt with the feel of a larger steel track loader.
Does that mean Gehls are takeuchi's now
Fastdirt, I am not sure how that is set up now. I bought mine in 2004, and then the Takeuchi, Ghel, and Mustang were the same machine in different paint jobs and different dealer networks. The retail price was quite variable between the three brands. It seemed to me that the Takeuchi brand was maybe $8,000-10,000 higher than the other two.
nope, still waiting on the release of the smaller jcbs this fall...
I choose the John Deere "D" series for my work. I have a great dealer and always had great luck with John Deere products and service........
I have a cat 216 ,has been real good for me -3700hrs,8yrs with miner problems -so they can't all be bad? i love the hand controls that cat have over the foot controls.
I'm fairly partial to New Holland. I own a LX885, and the company I work for has one too. While, I'm pretty good about taking care of my LX, I can't begin to explain the horrors that the work machine has gone through. Just imagine seasonal employees running the garbage out of it, and never taking a moment to maintain it. But the old girl still works like a charm, starts up without an issue, and runs strong. Poor thing. :/
Well Bubba here's my input, It really depends on what you intend on using the ssl for. If it's fine finish grading some shine way above the others. If it's something really harsh like demolition or forestry some fall really short! Another big thing to look for is product support in your area for a machine. For example; if a Case 440 is the best machine for you but the nearest dealer is 200 miles away every time you need help from that dealer it is going to be costly to you taking that machines value way down. Or even by parts availability. If you have to wait two weeks for parts every time from your dealer down the street how are to ever survive? All that being said and even though I'm not a huge fan of I would have to say Bobcat does make a pretty good overall machine. I'm not a big fan of them because they have historically been low on hydraulic horsepower and difficult to service the cooling systems. As well as they ride a bit harsh compared to some others. But for a machine that just goes, keep all the fancy options down because those cost a lot later Bobcat seems to do real well
CAT has by far outperformed every other manufacturer with those hand controls. The modulation is so smooth with them making very precise work a much easier chore.
I've only been on 216, 226, and 272 wheeled, 257 tracked Cats. In the dim and distant past a couple of Bobcats, the numbers evading my memory. I remember the Bobcats were nice to operate and reasonable visibility. The Cats, all within the last five years, various experiences. The 272 is planted as a rock, but hard on the tyres for the same reason, but very powerful and capable of carrying a much bigger bucket. The 226, good balance and power, no issues, the 216, crap handling. Suprising as the dimensions look the same. The 257 is no more a wheeled machine with tracks thrown on than any other make. Never had any great issues, apart from the track wear. We're running on concrete with a bucket and the tracks have lasted 850 hours. The sprockets had to be partly rebuilt at 500. I like the balance and handling, though. We can stick anyone on it and they generally pick it up in a very short time.
I think Bob Cat has built a good all around reputation. I also think most of these Skidsteers have there UPs and Downs. Hope you find the right fit! (Did i say Bob Cat!!!)
I have been with my company for going on 11 years and we have owned 4 Case skid steer's 1840's,40XT and now a SR175. We work them on concrete pavement. The Case machines have always been good to us, the other departments have had almost twice as many machines as we have. They should make it a PROVING ground for all skid steer's. They have burned up more engines than I can count on one hand,just because of neglect. The Bobcat was the worst, not knocking them just were not built as well as the Case for what it is used for. The new Case machines...I'm still out on that one. The SR175 with 250 hrs. is being a thorn in our side but they are all over it (Case) has stepped up and said there is a problem here and we will fix it. The plastic fan blades keep breaking apart and taking out the radiators and coolers. We have two new one's and they are both doing the same thing. They brought us a brand new machine yesterday to use until they resolve the problem..
Thats been my experience as well. They all breakdown at some point, and I am admittely pretty demanding on both the machines and the dealer. Neither CASE or the dealer, has yet to let me down. Thats why I feel confident about ordering the TR320. If it isn't right, they will make it right. I think all the top tier OEMs build a competent machine, but they all have different strengths and weaknesses. The CASE machines traditionally have been a perfect fit for what we need these machines to do. I hoping that the new series continues with these strengths adds more to the list such as operator comfort which in the older machines has been less so than some of the competitive machines.
i wish the case dealer was stronger in our area. i only hear great things about their machines. i would like to start checking out some other brands.
Many good post, lots of interesting thoughts and information. I will say this. I have been the proud owner of JCB Robot (2), Cat 262 B , and 1845c that never would die. Currently own a bobcat s300 Cat 257b rub track Case 440c. I have put thousands of hours on these machines and made countless onsite and to the shop repairs. I wont be the first to say, It depends on what you want to do with your machine, and who's running it... I will say this, call all your local dealers, every last one, regardless of the brand and ask for the shop service manager... can you get him? is he knowledgeable ? All machines break at some point, question is who is going to get you running the quickest. Of all the machines I have had, Bobcat takes the cake...hands down, they have a lot of dealerships scattered about and a rock of a machine, bobcat 300 in t or s models are tanks for the money... I will be strongly considering a Tak on the next go around but the new M series from bobcat will be tough to beat. Bobcats have many benefits for you guys out there paying some kid 10 bucks an hour to run one in the dirt all day. Cycle times are a bit slower, move a bit mare lethargic which equal more house on their foundations mail boxes standing lol the list goes on but that's another topic. Get the gold package, cab heat/air .You'll be glad you did. The Cat 257 is simply awesome for light work, has amazing agility and ground speed. Its certainly capable of of heavy work but the tracks and undercarriage will break you if you do. The case has been a good machine, not a lot of use but very strong...you need hearing protection because its loud, hydraulic pump sounds like its about to blow, just the way they are...
In my opinion it depends on the application that you are using it for. Do you need a vertical lift machine or a radial lift machine? Do you need High Flow or standard flow? What type of dirt do you have? Does the ground freeze or just get muddy? Nobody makes a bad machine in my opinion they all have their benefits. I have owned and do own more machines that I care to count. Its all about preference and conditions in which you are working. If you are doing a great deal of ground engaging I prefer radial lift machines. If you are mainly lifting/loading then it would be wise to choose a vertical lift machine. When choosing a size you then need to analyze what your going to be doing. Landscaping? Grading? Clearing? The bigger you go the more expensive maintenance is (servicing, tracks, tires, attachments for a good attachment) and the more fuel you will burn. All of these things need to be taken into consideration. I do recommend staying with a big name machine such as mustang, gehl, takeuchi, cat, bobcat, case, or new holland. You also need to think about after sale. Price of parts and dealer service.
anything named or logoed or anything to with cats are well you know what I mean but the case 440 series tracked skidders are pure mean I pushed a side dumper trailer and truck out of a jam with one but a Volvo aint that bad i had a crown vic on the forks didn't even lift the back wheels up heavy lifters heavy counter weights caused wheelies all the time and that is my two cents also the case had a 4bt cummins engine
CAT! If you have to ask why then you don't understand. Nobody's machine is perfect, and they break - not a matter of "IF" but "WHEN". With a question like that the OP will ultimately get a high score for every machine ever built because every owner/operator has different skill sets and all are not equal. So, I must ask the OP: Do you own/operate a skid steer? If not, do you intend to purchase one? Have you any experience operating one? Do/would you do your own maintenance or take it to a professional shop/dealer? I'm thinking you will be able to get a more accurate assessment by asking a direct question.
Bobcat a300 hands down ... Great reliable power, 4 wheel steer or skid, comfy air ride seat option, cheap(ish) parts, Most attachments available, most room in the cab, easy to work on, easy to service, and bobcats are everywhere!!!
:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:drinkup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup:
Bobcat or case, seen so many of both beaten to death but still run great.
I've owned almost 40 different bobcats, all sizes. Some of them were not very good machines and others never caused one problem. 743's 53's were real good little machines, ran some 3000 hrs. without replacing so much as a belt or hose. The late 863's were one of my favorite machines, balance and decent power. I had a 953 that wasn't bad after turning the power up. I don't like the s220 very well I have now but stuck with it till it's time to trade in. The newer ones have to much electronics on them for me. If I could find a real nice late 863 with cab and air I would probably buy it.
I agree with grandpa. I use a 743 bobcat that my dad bought in the early 80s. He used it in the heat of South Carolina to build houses and around the farm. It has almost 18000 hours on it( not lying) and I haven't had any problems with it. We still use it for hauling wood and dirt. It can still push around the halves of the big pines we have around the house. Bobcats are built tough and to last.
what about kabota?
I like the older Gehls......simple ...tough.....t handle controls i thought were some of the best in the market ....minimal electronics.......the older Bobcats were fine too cept i hated the foot/lever controls....new operators had a longer learning curve on them... new stuff i still like the simple/toughness and price points of the Gehls and Tachs...
who makes the best machine? bobcat. they have sold a million of them and know what they are doing. do they build the nicest machine? probably not. we are buying a new s590 with kubota engine with standard hand foot controls to supplement the jcb. bobcats can do more with less hp than their competition. all of their drive and hydraulics all work seamlessly and efficiently together toward a common goal.
What made you decide to do the BC over the JCB?
We still have the Jcb... But now we have the bobcat too. The Jcb is quite a bit nicer than the bobcat but the bobcat is well a bobcat. They are super reliable durable high quality simple machines that you can depend on with your life. Since we probably won't put too many hours on a second machine I would not be surprised if we keep it for 20 years with no problems. At the end of the day the bobcat hand foot controls are the superior way to control your machine. Although I feel I can keep up to the average bobcat driving speed with joysticks, if I'm in a hurry I can run circles around a joystick machine if I'm in the bobcat. Another reason we purchased hand foot is because I am apparently the only farmer in the county capable of learning how to drive a joystick machine. And me being the only person who knows how to drive the skid steer is problematic at best. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they have some bugs to work out of the doosan engine that may temporarily effect their reliability.
Why is hand and foot controls a superior way to control a skid steer?
:iagree
this is a demonstration of why bobcat controls are a superior way to control your machine. i would love to see someone do this with a t bar or joystick. the good part starts at 5:00 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doNmniQrhBU
To me you have better fine control with the bobcat controls. But I have not had any issues with the pilot controls on my 226.
Wow dave, thanks for that super awesome link! I can think of so many times those super awesome skills would make me huge super awesome piles of cash on the job and impress my customers to boot. Unbelievable super awesome control!
LOL! Certainly this is all up for debate, however I will say that typically people have better fine motor skill with their hands than their feet. Obviously it comes down operator preference, so to say that hand and foot operation is a superior method of operating a skid steer is rather silly. Perhaps for you this is true, but you certainly are not everyone. A circus act showing some monkey in a Bobcat running around on two wheels hardly makes your case.
opcorn
Haha that's funny!
Ya, and then there's this guy....... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALLFzw9hV7M I could care less what a fruit loop in a pink bobcat can do, for stunts maybe they are better but for running all day long I like joysticks, and I used to be die hard Hand/Foot.
Yea I think if they were truly better more people would run them or even more so, people would still be running them (since the vast majority of hand/foot operators have converted). Consider this Dave, if you were going in for brain surgery and the surgeon said he was going to operate on your brain with his feet because he felt it was more precise than using his hands, would you believe him? I know that is a silly example, I am simply trying to make a point.
This is outrageous. The video was to demonstrate the capability of the system. That capability is directly related to every day use. The local dealer has 60 new bobcats on the lot and every one of them is hand foot. I never said hand foot was superior to actually live with, but mechanical controls are superior for controlling your machine that is not really debatable. Mechanical hand controls would prolly be just as good for control.
I think your moving the goals posts (as I watch Sunday Night Football) Dave, so is it the mechanical controls you find so awesome or the hand/foot control pattern? You call them Bobcat controls and reference hand/foot, no where do you reference mechanical controls as the feature that makes them excel. Just so you know, Deere offers hand/foot with EH. What makes mechanical so superior, especially in a Bobcat? They are overly fatiguing due to the feedback in the controls IMHO. You could make a better case with mechanical/servo which has great feel and is less fatiguing, but you did not specify that. Personally, I think Pilots is the ideal control system, but EH continues to get better and better. Lastly I would say that there is nothing that these stunt drivers are doing that relates to normal operating practices. I would imagine if you saw one of your operators going down the alley in your barn on the two front tires, you would fire him.
i really can't believe that this is up for debate. everyone knows when you have a mechanical control system you have more control than you ever will with electric over hydraulic. when i say bobcat controls i mean standard bobcat controls. there have been lots of companies who have tried to imitate them, but for the most part they just don't provide the level of control you get in a bobcat mainly in the drive. the old case servo system i actually did have a lot of respect for; i really can't believe they dropped it. of corse for whatever reason it seemed to be hard for people to drive a straight line with that system. not to mention you could not itch your nose while you were driving. i am convinced that pilot controls would be nothing but problems in the winter time. again, the fact that what the stunt drivers are doing would not be possible with joysticks proves that bobcat (non tbar) controls can do things the rest can't. would i go back to hand foot controls in my primary machine? no. will i hop in the bobcat when i need to get a lot done in a short period of time/or whenever i am running the backhoe attachment? yes.
"i am convinced that pilot controls would be nothing but problems in the winter time." Ok, that's a silly suggestion. If they were so problematic, how would explain that pretty much all excavators, dozers, backhoes, AND skid steers all run pilot controls? As far as controll, the pilots are precise as can be with limited movement thus not wearing out the operator. I would agree with you that the "fly by wire" controls did leave much to be desired at first but I believe even they are getting better.
I have run both style machines over my 30 years in the dirt business, and too say manual is superior to E/H is simply not true. I have the same level of control on my brand 299 and 289 CAT's as I did on my70 and 80 model Bobcats. The new e/h controls offer less operator fatigue from the manual hand foot controls in my opinion. When the newer pilot control first came out they had allot to be desired but today's machines are excellent and far superior to any manually operated hand /foot control machine period. Once you get used to running the E/H you can actually be more precise hour after hour, day after day in my humble opinion.
i would say the precision and control is there with the eh. but the precision and control coupled with speed is not really there. if i wanna move a half inch backward, while trying to take the rotor out of the combine, with mechanical i can do it in a split second. if i wanna move a half inch with eh it may take me a few seconds. i scoop up lots of liquid manure against a flat wall; the eh is not the best fit for this application because you have to be quick else nothing will end up in your bucket. and i don't want to touch the wall with the bucket so as to wear the wall out. i can make it work at an acceptable level though. so are you saying if i fire up my pilot machine in -30 F and take off instantly like i have always done with the bobcat it is going to work right? cuz I'm not going to wait around for 20 minutes for the machine to warm up. i have never let the bobcats warm up in cold weather and have never had a problem.
Dave..EH controls are not impacted whatsoever by cold temps. They are electrically connected to the servo pistons in the pump. From an engineering standpoint regarding electrons they would actually perform better in cold temps given that electrons and electronics in general work better when it's cold, hence the fans in computers, servers set up in cold rooms, iPhones not working well when hot, etc. Also, preference for machine control type is just as subjective as what brand is best. Each person has a preference based on their experiences, personal biases, relationships, etc. Trust us, we're really, really happy you like your controls the best!
Our mechanical machines were not happy in the cold. The EH machines are worse in cold, the pilot machines are better though. Ours usually don't sit shut down in the cold for too long. The smaller 226B3 with pilots never sits off for more than two hours and when it is shut down its in a warmish barn. The 262D with EH gets parked in shop over night when it gets really cold out. If we left it outside it only takes a of warming up to be responsive but it's just nicer on everything to keep it a bit warmer. Our other pilot machine (242B3) sits out of the wind but in a cold shed and never has issues either. Our Volvo wheel loader uses pilot controls as well and never even hesitates until it gets below 0*. Our old NH mechanical machines would freewheel a lot in the cold and the genteel would obviously be very stiff. I would say you can be much more precise with pilot controls than mechanical controls and I would bet you could do the same stunts as the guys were doing in the videos above. The pilot controls are very precise and responsive with decent operator feel. EH controls on the other hand are a different story. Our older C series Cat was pretty poor but the D series EH has gotten a lot better. I know KSSS has said that CNH has gotten their EH refined as well. I know Bobcats EH were pretty poor but maybe they have gotten them working better by now. Maybe Bobcat guys just love their foot controls because even without them you still don't get a nice flat floor thanks to the center chain case. Pilot controls are still my favorite, but the comfort of the EH sticks being mounted with the seat and being able to adjust them for different operators helps offset the minor annoyances in response from time to time.
Yea I agree completely.
so after spending a few hours in the bobcat s570 kubota i have some things to say. the machine is pretty nice but it is LOUD in the cab! so loud that i am considering trading it on a doosan unit with sound package; which is not strategic. after being used to the jcb, the loudness is completely unacceptable. and its not just the loudness i have a problem with, its the frequency of the loudness; it rattles your brain. so it is 2014 and i am wearing earmuffs in my skid loader. not to mention the jcb is quieter without earmuffs than the bobcat is with earmuffs. so besides the loudness ruining the machine, there are a few good things about it. the first bad thing is the controls work too hard in high range. the headlights are fantastic. the machine performs and has the power that it should and is quick. the inside of the cab is pretty nice. it actually is kinda nice that you are 2 inches closer to the bucket. the glass on the outside of the cab is a good idea. the visibility is good. i will say that bobcats seem to ride smoother than other brands i don't know why. the mechanical seat is pretty good. ease of entry is not bad for conventional skid steer. the jcb is significantly faster in high range than the bobcat is. if it were solely up to me i would have had that like new cat 252b with 1500 hours with cab heat power quick tach for 16k; that woulda been a sweet toy.
http://www.cpwrconstructionsolutions.org/heavy_equipment/solution/874/quieter-skid-steer.html i recommend hitting the see full article button.
Reading your comments makes me wonder. I know a grading contractor near me that has 4 tracked bobcat machines. 3 of them have turned into part machines. His comments to me were they had computer issues and that the security and drive systems were a pain once they got some hours on them. The cost for the new control panel parts was too high and the machines were eating the boards. He was looking for a work around so that he did not need to spend $1000.00's for harnesses and computer control crap. I have not been in any foot control machine on the market, that can run circles around a high horsepower case joy stick machine. After diving my case, a foot control bobcat feels like a old slow goat. The case also has a great deal of quick fine control. Sorry don't mean to call you out, I have used both. I get so upset when I have to get a rental it can add hours to the job. Lately I have been on 4 jobs that the owners had there own skids. I was allowed use of them and I was contracted to build them a building pad. Leveling a building spot can be more than an average user can do. I always bring my own machine because we are 1! It is a special feeling to get called in to complete machine work when they could have done it them selves. I run high rates and don't cut my prices. But I can grade to within about 3\4s of an inch and I can save lots of concrete and also make sure it is thick enough which is important. I do not use lasers or gps. String lines and eye. this may sound crazy but if one tire has a different pressure I know. It screws up my grading. I can almost run at max speed building a pad. I slow done when men are near but other than that it is balls out. But my case now has 1400 hrs and the control boards have failed. It is easy enough to by pass the safeties on the older machines, but the danger use level goes way up and you loose the parking brake when you by pass the boards. Difference is mine is still making money and not collecting dust, but I wish I had time to put it down to fix.it. Case machines are loud and I wear earplugs, but mostly due to the backup alarm.
After watching those videos, I had a quick feeling that i really can not operate. There is no way I have that level of smooth slow control. Then I remembered why I do not like the hand and foot controls. In work application I seem to be better just using my hands. It really gets pronounced when you start hitting bumps. I can not even keep my feet in place sometimes. I use my whole body to ride the machine, changing direction and gravity makes it harder to control with your feet. That is the difference! I would imagine that you can't squeeze much more work and speed out of a machine than I do. The average user will not probably know the difference. I do not ever work by the hour. I work by the job so I haul tail to get in and then out. For those wondering what I think the best machine is, my answer is I do not know. I know how mine could be improved but it is no longer made. The new machines went in the wrong direction for me. Cheap, simple, strong, over built and easy to work on. I like parts that work on several things and I like being able to find parts and hose fittings any where. I hate waiting for special fittings and I do not like how the companies have a part made by another company then make it so that you must order this pulley or that part only through the retailer. Case burnt my ass with the drive motors on the 75xt. They put in motors that could not be rebuilt and they were not strong enough to last. The replacements cost 5000 dollars and are supposed to be improved versions. They are leaking into the chain boxes again. I tried getting the first set rebuilt, due to the design the rebuild did not last and I blew them up with in 8 hours. Double labor. 700 hours out of drive motors is a joke.
i have said it before. case had something with their old school skid steers. its really too bad they are gone. so what models specifically are you referring to from bobcat and case. i haven't driven too many case machines, sv185, 420, 40xt, 90xt, 465: i don't remember any of them being excessively quick. the 90xt i think had fast cycle times, the 465 was terrible. i don't see how case can be more quick if your hand has a direct link to the hydro on the bobcat. if you are saying case is more uncontrollable on the drive i can see what you mean! you do get more action from less throw... there is nothing i can't do with hand foot controls; the whole not being able to remain planted is simply not true. if it really gets that bumpy you can stand while you drive. so it sounds like your buddy with the bobcats has all the options on them. i am referring to ones with no options, cuz options cause problems. and ctls are really not my specialty. we have been running bobcats for 45 years and have never had any major problems. we had 2 engines go out at 7000 hours years ago. one was a little 3 cylinder deutz and i don't know what the other was. on the other hand our old international skid steer was a nightmare.
I worked on Case skid steers for 6 years and they are very easy to maintain, they are built with great componentry and last a long time provided you maintain them reasonably well. They are also great value for money and if you change them over every 4000 hours you will do well out of them Sincerely Bulldog
my prediction is that one of the major manufacturers is going to adopt this technology soon. obviously jcb has thought about it... http://forums.dhsdiecast.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=125779
For the guy that is a expert at driving on two wheels !!! not sure how often I could get paid for that and I would have nothing but tracks. I have rented Bobcat's many other skid steers I have not ben on all of them but in all the ones worked the Takeuchi 140 is a beast (81hp) and one great machine. I know many rental places are changing to Takeuchi and I am buying a Takeuchi 150 ( 98hp ) this year as I sell some land that I don't need. If you have not been on one you should try it for a day. Now if you like showing off at birthday parties then buy a bobcat. Do this on two wheels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbJUtHqzbR4
I have a tl-150 also. It is a good machine if your work is big enough for it. Most residential work is not big enough and a smaller lighter and easier to see out of machine, like a tl130 would be better. Moving around 12,000 to 14,000 lbs, uses way more fuel and tears up more. But if you are not in tight areas , it is a beast.
On the 75xt I use, the joysticks are less fatiguing to use than the older Bobcat's. Also Case for a long while seemed to have more HP per lb of machine weight. In reality, most guys probably think what they have is best and they get used to using it. Although for me, I jump between a tl150, cat 953, case 75xt and a tl145 quite frequently and must be able to get production done in order to move our jobs along. Every job start I am equalizing tire pressure to keep the machine grading the same. I run a concrete crew and I am the one that gets the concrete bill so a 1" on grading matters to me at the end of the day. It is very hard for me to switch over to a bobcat machine using the other joystick machines, I can do it but it is almost like learning to walk again or something similar. As far as who makes the best machine overall it is hard to say. To many things go into that, including ease of repairs and replacement part cost. Tak has really jumped up on the repair part costs and 100k for a tl12 is cat type money and everyone knows they have 1000% markup on some of their parts . For the record though my guys like the tl150. The saying is "this is a very specialized machine, made for grading and it will make the dirt flat faster". They just aren't all ways on site for the demo and clean ups which is the day before the forming starts type work. The case is nimble easy to pull and easy to see out of, and it digs pretty good for its size and tires are way cheaper than tracks.
I would love to see some more opinions on this topic!
I'll take pilots or E/H controls over mechanical any day of the week, I have put quite a few hours on older machines, Gehl's, Hydra Mac's, the odd bobcat here and there, and in no way are mechanical controls fast or even that smooth. I really wish there was a way to put true pilot controls in our Cat 215 excavator instead of the pos spool/linkage controls it has now.
I have used most brands of skid steer and here is my take. Bobcat makes a solid machine but all of its safeties makes it unpractical if you have to get in and out of it. Cat older controls were horrible so I never cared much for the machine. My favorite that I have run is a tachahuchi. Ton of power and no annoying safeties like the bobcat. I don't live near a dealer so myself I will go with a case. Also avoid john deer as they have had lots of transmission problems with some of their models
Mustang
It's all about RESALE. I bought a 287B, ran the paint off of it, never spent a dime on repairs and sold it 10 year later for 5K less than I paid for it. Please show me another skid steer that you can run hard for 10 years and only cost you the equivalent of $500.00 a year.
Ten years with zero repair costs? Unless you only ran it 10 hours a year, you should go buy a lottery ticket cuz you have some really good luck!
The ASV undercarriages on those MTL made up some of the highest maintenance machines ever released. They were so fragile the you could not even rent them from CAT in this area. They would rent you a CAT wheeled machine with the VTS system, but they would not rent you an MTL. Either the machine was never run or your adding machine forgot to carry a 1.
The 2 closest dealers to me, which is important when deciding to buy a machine, are John Deere and Kubota, I am gonna buy a skid steer here soon, i have only operated cat's. Which out of the 2 mentioned would be best to go with? 5 acre Acreage, all in trees, fairly soft usually. New build Lots of dirt moving and grading of yard Gravel Road maintenance Trenching Landscaping Snow removal(lots of snow up here in northern Alberta) Was hoping to get away with a wheeled unit, way cheaper to maintain and operate. TIA
I'd stay away from kubota.. to many issues with welds, friend of mines fixed more kubota units then I've ever thought possible, always see orange pieces in the shop.. right from the kubota dealer .. brand new.. another buddy had already welded on his svl75 multiple places. That being said in just orderd myself a 333g pretty optioned out.. should be here Nov 1
I have heard so much good about the Kubota skids. They have the best warranty and the best insurance normally have the best intrest rate too. I now have 5 Bobcats because of the local dealer. They are great.
I have similar question, im old school excavator, op. but a job ill be doing in future requires lots of forklift unloading, some grading. Excavator is clumsy with forks, so track skidstear would be better ?
I have done a fair bit of dirt/rock work with skid steer as well as moving palletized materials with both a skid steer and a fork lift. The skid steer is very clumsy with pallet forks, jerking and bouncing around and not staying level as you go up and down, compared to a proper fork lift. If you can find a way to get a real fork lift for that part of the job it would be very nice. Although I can understand the desire to have one machine on the job. And if the ground is rough a fork lift does not do so well. We also had some good success with the baby Genie telehandler with a Bobcat style bucket on it for digging and grading and such. Although it was the boss's toy and not necessarily a good idea.
JD MAKES 204k wheel loader or similar, w quick change, i see hitachi loaders are available now/
A vertical lift machine would likely be a plus if your doing a lot of pallet work. Wheels or tires? If your on solid ground the majority of the time a large frame wheeled machine with 14X17.5 tires is a nice compromise. If your frequently working in muddy or soft conditions like I envision Vancover to be, than the tracked machine would likely be a better investment.
blasted rock rubble and gravel
That's easy then I would go with the 14X17.5 tires on a large frame skid steer. Make sure it has the Galaxy Hulk tires. Best tire investment you will make. I have been running this tire on SV300 and SV340. They hook up well in those types of conditions, wear like iron and expensive of course but buy them on Simpletire.com or similar site and they are more reasonable.
thanks
The support matters more than the brand
I'd have to say the bobcat 743's and 753's. I've owned thirty or so of them. Had some go 2500 hrs. and never replaced a belt or hose. That is about all the hours I've ever kept a machine. The later 863 bobcats were probably my favorite machine although not quite as dependable as the 700 series machines. 42 years on skid steers and on my 41 machine you kind of learn ins and outs of them.
My brother Tore out concrete for quite a few years And broke the boom on different Bobcats. I believe it was 873 and a 963. T190 had electrical issues the dealer could never figure out. He has had caterpillar, 4-5 case machines, Takeuchi, and John Deere is what I can recall. They all had different things break but we’re all repairable but no broken booms except bobcats. Only bobcats had overheat issues with a concrete Planer also. Over the Years Case has been the most reliable. None of these machines were purchased new but there’s been enough of them I believe it’s telling me Case.
The 700 series bobcats cracked where the tilt cylinder hooked to the boom. I've chased cracks up and down the machines. Get one part stronger and it just moves to the next weakest link. The case didn't have as much ground clearance as bobcats and I've seen many a wheel bearing go out of them as they are greased and not run in oil. Every machine has it's up and downs, some of the early 863's were crap. I turned one back in on the lemon law. It seems like the last of the series are the best right before the change them then all go threw problems again. I also never liked the vertical lift booms, to much rattling and most of my work was rock or dirt. Everyone has their favorites it's just what you get used to and can tolerate the bad stuff. I actually started on a 722 with the little ford gas motor and my brother started his business with a 600 clutch machine with a wisconsin motor. The first hydrostat machine he had was a wisconsin and he swapped a 2300 pinto motor into it. Bobcat sent someone out to take a picture of it and low and behold the next year 4 cylinder ford motors were offered. We cut the cages off because they were so small and keep a rebuilt motor for them all the time. Usually burned one up almost every year they ran so hot.