I am a bit disheartened about where our little piece of the work pie is going. Have young guys like Junkyard working in the field but not seeing many of our youth getting in as operator or mechanic not even transport drivers. Anyone else see these problems?
I don't know what the underlying issues are. Maybe the schools are pushing tech jobs so much they don't think about the trades. Not having auto shop and the like in schools doesn't help. As flakey as companies are these days there is some merit to being a union operator or laborer. It is a shame, there's a lot of knowledge and experience retiring with a gap in good mechanics, operators and other trades. I've often pondered how to recruit and retain the talent. Even before that how to evaluate potential candidates for the various positions. Companies that take care of and stand behind employees is important too. Nobody thinks long term anymore, employee or employer. They all chase the short term gain and don't think about the big picture. Just my .02
Interesting in that last night I watched a documentary about college educations that never pay off for a large portions of students. They never make enough "extra" money in the field they end up in to pay there crazy college costs. Over half never work in there educated field. Our local construction unions have a active program in which I participate. We go to high schools and talk to the seniors about alternates to college. It's pretty amazing to see the interested kids eyes light up when it is explained that at the end of the mostly 4 year apprentice programs they are usually making +50 K a year and no college dept. Most kids that actually go that route have relations in the trades. Most parents push there kids for a college degree wither thay can afford it lr not and in most cases the college kids get started in life with a 1/4 million dollars in debt, start out later in life at less money, and a education that often never adds value to the career they end up in. This is not intended to mean college is bad, only that it's not for everyone and there are alternatives.
I think it does come from the schools somewhat they're all school types and have a habit of looking down there noses at tradesmen, just try doing work for them personally. I have done my part my one son is a journeyman carpenter and the other is a top equipment operator. I also just signed a 19 year old kid up as an apprentice carpenter. I don't need to because carpentry is a voluntary trade but I feel i need to invest back into the trade that has been so good to me.
I think willing mentors is a big part of the equation too. Most kids don't want to work like the previous generations did and that may tend to irritate the mentor. I know I've dealt with it and see it here at work. Young kid comes to work at scale wage which is more than double what he's ever made. He di$ks around and shows up late not realizing the great opportunity he has.
Down in the south we have plenty of youth almost all of them are Hispanic.
We're seeing it to in the plumbing trade not to many people want to be a plumber but they make good money we just started our apprentice program up again about 5 months ago not to many young kids want to work they want to make good money and sit in an air condition tractor with a radio it has taken me 16 years of working in the construction trade and I'm finally making a decent living you just got work hard and it depends on how bad you want it
Which spurs another thought. The current crop of would be operators, mechanics etc seem to have a very obvious sense of entitlement, like they're too good to work their way up or should make big $$ right off the bat.
I remember my Grandpa saying that 20 years ago and he had been retired 20 years when he said it so nothing new under the sun....
They probably come from a culture where hard and even dirty work is considered honorable not soomething to be looked down on. My older brother back in the late `60's was in training to go in the Peace Corp. Part of the training included spending some time working with migrant workers in orchards in western NY. He says right today that anyone who disparages Mexicans as lazy should try working a few days picking apples or pruning trees along side some of those people! If all the migrant workers in this country decided to either go home or stay home for one year much of this country would be starving.
Only getting worse Birken, only gotten worse! I came out of trade school with a certificate, would not even buy me a cup of coffee with it. I fought thru jobs, moving a lot, learning the hard way in production rate wage shops and managed. I do not see kids today making the efforts I did. I grew into mechanic from 1975, I managed to be auto/truck/heavy machine mechanic even working bulk systems for transport and delivery on some days then advanced to power station worker and eventually a plant operating engineer. I weld, I carpenter, I even farm a little and for that I managed to get a retirement.
Reminds me of where I worked. Norm and I did 99% of the engine and transmission rebuilds in the shop. Every so often one of the other guys would go begging to the boss to get some time/experience in the motor shop. Most of the time after less than a full day in the motor shop they would be complaining about having to spend all day scrapping gaskets and washing up parts! Always wondered how they thought those parts got cleaned when it was just Norm and myself?????? Then there was the new guy they were hiring to be a second mechanic in the shop after we had down-sized and were only working on our own equipment. I think he got pi$$ed at me when I told him never claim there was nothing to do if the boss came by. Told him sweep the floor, crush old filters, clean out drain buckets, empty trash cans. How those things got done when I was working all alone, don't think 90% of the people could answer that question. Heck back when I was working as the traveling mechanic for the company and I was sent to another plant to do some work more than once while waiting for them to find the machine or plant mechanic to explain the problem I would pick up a shovel and broom and start cleaning their shop. Figured I was going to be working there so might as well make it a bit better for me.
Its fairly simple really, you guys generation didnt teach my generation how to work. Thats my theory and I'm sticking to it.
don't get me started..
I think there are a pile of reasons for the knowledge gap happening nowadays in the blue collar trades. All the above statements have plenty of merit. I don't think its so much a question of people who want to get in an do it but rather few if any are exposed to the satisfaction of doing a good repair, rebuild a component that works, tune up a car engine, making a top quality weld troubleshooting a problem and making a fix. Kids don't get that rush when they did something good so turn to other things for satisfaction. Probably another factor is there is no war generation to speak of to learn from anymore. When I started there were plenty of WWII, Korea and Vietnam craftsmen. It's pretty hard to whine in front of one of those guys when they tell you stories of working for months straight carrying bodies out of Pearl Harbor ships and then working to re-float and start the repairs while not knowing if the enemy was coming back with more bombs and bullets. You didn't get any sympathy for barking a knuckle from the guy who took point in the jungles of Vietnam or did perimeter duty on a frozen mountain ridge in Korea. Whining became accepted and around here actually defended lest we ruin someone's self esteem. I'd almost have to agree with Knepptune in that we accepted that behavior from our kids so we have only ourselves to blame. So now you have immigrants who started out in dire straights, are hungry and have no intention of going back to the lives of desperation that they came from. If they can do the job then more power to them.
I got into welding right out of high school. Had a very experienced teacher in school. Sometimes the problem is not from wanting to learn. Some experienced guys go out of their to help you but there are others that must figure you're trying to take their job and won't help you the least little bit. They'll watch you doing something that could be done much easier and faster not say a word. Even something they know you'll have to fix after your done. I always tried to help out the new guys and explain why you do things a certain way. I considered it a compliment if someone was asking how to do something. Some of the old guys want you fail. They think it makes them look better but it doesn't. It makes them look like arrogant old p-ricks.
im 24 years old I worked for a local contractor for 6 years driving class B trucks operating heavy equipment and doing most of his mechanic work. I also do laborer tasks aswell when needed. I grew up in the industry with my parents. Not to really brag about how hard I work. I normally leave work and go back to work doing my own thing. I got some older machines I paid off and do side work. Im in the process of starting small and getting bigger as the time comes. Not many of my generation is like me sadly. I work hard for what I want and need and love doing it. My boss has gone thru so many laborers thru out the 6 years I worked for him. Sadly today no one wants to work . they just wanna collect that fancy check the government provides for them.
Working for the utility as a Temporary full time interim worker with no benefits and no vacation to get into the company years ago I worked in a small town head quarters with a garage. We serviced and repaired the line trucks, trouble trucks, cars and pickups, cranes what ever the company could bring the three of us that worked there. After working like dogs thru the winter spring came in easy and the work slowed, I washed windows, cleaned the floor lift pits, even got some of the dysfunctional tools working better while the day foreman was on vacation. He looked out the windows three days after getting back said "Damn, who cleaned the window to the fuel island, now they can see I am screwing off" never touched them again!! He later admitted he had considered doing the very same thing but just as got the gumption a call would come to go on a road call.
First legitimate dealership shop I worked in had me cleaning the men's restroom every morning. I'm sure it was their test. After I moved up the food chain the next guy didn't make it two weeks. He asked how long I did it, I told him until you came along. It was 8-9 months. I've always been of the "whatever it takes" mentality. I make the same scrubbing the porcelain as I do sweating my *** off outside. There are some tasks I consider distasteful but I never shirk them. Heck even at ** I may spend a day washing a drill rig. But you know what, it'll damn sure be clean, especially where I have to work on it! Too much, too easy. I see and hear all the time having three teenagers. Not so much from my kids but some of their friends seem to have never heard the word "no". What do you suppose we can do to help the next batch of youngsters get with the program? I can't wait to teach my boys, at least enough to help them decide what they want to do.
I've been a Red Seal HET for going on 5 years now, so I guess you can say I'm still a kid lol. I see a lot of kids my age in the trades as this is a very industrial type town I live in. I wouldn't trust many of them to fix my wheelbarrow though as most are only in the trades for the money. They don't care about getting better. They want the easy jobs they don't have to work hard at and can crank out in 30 minutes. Me, I'll jump at the opportunity to tackle diagnosing an issue 3 others have given up on. I actually get a little bit pissed off if they give that job to someone else lol.
We see some youth interested in the trades & operating . Was scoping out a job this morning on some grain bin / leg work . 17 year old kid came in from bush hoggin . He said he ran in to a bees nest & got stung a few times . We kept measuring off the tubes & figuring out what we needed to do the job . This boy was thin as a rail & started lookin a little peaked . I finally said peel your shirt off ......... He got stung a few times , about 25 times . Sent a hand back to the house for a few taters , peeled them accordingly and taped them around the bee stings . Swelling went down after an hour & he looked better . I try to pass down a few old Indian tricks to the kids .
I was that way, trans work or finals was a great gig but heavy and dirty, brakes always a mess but someone had to get them, I got good at it. Then the electrical started calling with air systems, loved the challenges as you note the ones others would pass on.
I started at a dealership at 18. I did what ever tasks were needed to be done. If it was dirty, wet or messy I was doing it. Did that for 2 years before they started my apprenticeship. That's just how it was. You do your time doing the crap work before you move up the ladder. Now days the apprentices are embarrassing. They don't have to wash anything because there a specific wash guy now. They fail their first year tests, they lose their drivers licences, and don't want to work any overtime. Spoiled brats I guess. Hopefully this is isn't the norm now.
Oh boy tell me about it. We got a few guys at our shop that are in their 20's and still haven't graduated to their full driver's license yet. I've worked with guys who'd rather wrestle with changing rollers on a completely filthy undercarriage than spend a half hour with the wash wand. Being a full time field tech its an absolute treat to get to work on something clean lol. One thing I absolutely loved doing at the dealer I did my apprenticeship through was pins and bushings on excavators. That and assembly/pdi of the big 850 and 1200 excavators. Had a ton of fun working there.
Started at 18, took me two years of working my ass off in a washbay up in Alberta CA, to get my apprenticeship at the age of 20, W/ a full driver license haha. Now almost a third year. Was very fortunate to have a solid crew of journeyman who fostered the hard work, big reward mentality. They haven't steered me wrong yet!
Welcome to HEF popsicle!! Glad to hear someone recognizes when they have been given a good opportunity, especially with the slow down Alberta has suffered the last few years.
Local school system shut down their automotive repair shop/class 4-5 years ago.... Lack of interest. Ed
For a while, and maybe still, the state was using federal grant money to pay tuition for qualifying students to take diesel classes because there was such a shortage in skilled manpower here to support the need for diesel mechanics. When I worked for Cat, several of the mechanics hired were recruited from the lower 48 because they couldn't fill the positions locally. I'll never go hungry. My oldest son wants to be a mechanic so I've been taking him out on jobs with me. I get to pass on my knowledge while spending time with him before he graduates, and he has a summer job.
I think there is a lot at play. Between people getting degrees in bogus things like liberal arts, shop classes being pulled from school, whether it be auto body, welding, ag, construction, auto mechanics. It has been ingrained into my generation (26 years old) that you need a degree to go any where in life. Everyone wants the instant gratification of having the corner office making 100k a year, but nobody wants to work up to that from the bottom. Nobody wants to shovel dirt before they get in a loader for a few years to then become a foreman or super. "They" have devalued almost any and all careers in physical labor and make us all seem like we do it because we are somehow inadequate. There is also a shortage of those willing and able to teach the skilled trades, I went to college and got an associates degree majoring in auto repair. Now most of the instructors have gone back to wrenching themselves. There is no push from highschools to go into skilled trades, a couple years before I started in the automotive program it was a fight just to find a spot to get in, now they have dropped to starting a program every other year due to lack of participation. Furthermore, the cost of skilled trade education is outrageous, along with, at least on the mechanical end, you cant get a job without schooling and certifications. Why pay a huge sum of money for a specialized certification and education for a job where you have to bust your ass when you can get a basic degree for half the price and work in a cushy office and make twice the money from the start? Edit: I also feel like there is a lot of push to do something else by the parents, I know personally my dad and even my uncles tried to push me away from wrenching and do something better, easier with my life. I started for one of my dads old managers at a different shop at 17 and begged that manager not to tell my dad I was working there. I scrubbed the bathroom, scrubbed the floors, replaced bulbs and balasts in the shop, washed and portered cars, even chipped dried concrete from the owners friends bobcat buckets on occasion. I worked my ass off and moved up and then moved on and made my way.
Seems pretty simple from what I see. Most places looking for mechanics or laborers are around $12-15/hr. Sure, if you're a specialist, maybe you'll be at $25-30. But is it worth the hassle to work 12-14 hour days, 100k worth of tools, and never spend time with your family in the on season? You can get a job at a place like Cosco for $14.50/hr with health and retirement, working in A/C and heat, year round, with fixed hours.
True, technicians are not getting the pay to justify the work conditions/requirements but the advantages in near future do justify over the COSTCO or big box store jobs.
There is this new thing they call the "gig economy". Jobs are getting less permanent so employees are looked on more like independent contractors and sometimes they are classified as such. Less commitment of employees to employers and vice versa. Chicken and egg. For the most part I am in favor of this idea. Makes people have to be more nimble and respond to where the work [demand] is. Being married to an employer has never been as secure as it feels because the employer can always go bust at any time. And the employee has no upside of making extra profit because they work for their hourly or salary no matter what. Additionally, being an independent makes you feel where the money is going. Have to pay those income tax, sales tax, insurance payments.
I had a high school classmate whom designed and built bucket truck booms that reach over rails and are used to inspect bridges. After he met his un-timely death in a 4 wheeler accident I met his son whom was working at the local auto parts store. Dan loves heavy equipment and started working on my classics with me in his spare time. He had helped his dad all thru high school on the boom fabrication stuff. He wanted to become a heavy equipment mechanic, was smart, and a quick learner. He got a union job a year or so later with the Operating Engineers working with a seasoned mechanic as a mechanic's helper. One day in a pinch they put him on a loader to fill in for the day and now 5 years later he is still operating equipment for them. Apparently the heated and cooled equipment cabs is a more comfortable space than under the hood or belly pan. He does get told by the mechanic to fix his own machine if something breaks. It is gratifying when he thanks me for letting him operate my old junk because it gave him the experience to succeed when he was given the chance to operate. I think his words to me was, this new stuff is easy to operate after learning on yours.
I don't know. I think I'm fairly well compensated for what the job demands are.
Seems Canadian pay is about $10/hr more
A lot of shops do not have the money to pay around here anymore as the cutthroat shops that use cheap labor for mechanics or operators continues to pull business away. A good local contractor does all his drivers/operators as independent contractors as no need for benefits or incentives as the harder you work the better the pay.
Better not to talk of who holds the pension money in that situation. Union work is the same boat. Only you are working for the union instead of the man. The down side there is if you want to work in your field for more than wages the union may have something to say about that. Since they own the employee as long as they stay in that field. There are plenty of other drawbacks but that might exceed the scope of this thread.
I certainly think that is a big part of it. The other thing (thinking more mechanic work than operating here) is that because cars and trucks are more complicated, kids don't grow up helping Dad work on the car, or fixing up their own old car when they get old enough to drive. And I don't know about where you live, but around here, there's less places to ride dirt bikes and quads, that's how a lot of guys got their first wrenching experience, overhauling a little 125 2-stroke dirt bike engine.
My boys won't have the too new and complex to work on. I don't and won't have anything that fancy. My oldest son, 7, is probably one of very few his age that knows what a buzzin dozen is lol. Used to be just about every garage down your street had a craftsman tool box in it. I don't see that so much anymore. $100,000 worth of vehicles in the drive and $1,000 worth of crap in the garage
I love when younger people break into the trade, because it's been about 10 years since I've been on a job where they called me "the kid".
I know I learned quite a bit from messing with what we called "lot cars". After we turned about 13 years of age my brother and I always had one or two old junkers we would run up and down the hill by the house. One thing I did learn is running too soft of tires in a 1951 Plymouth and trying to do power slides on a side hill is not too smart! After walking close to a 1/4 mile back to the house mom seemed to sense something was wrong and asked what happened. So I told her I had rolled the car over up on the hill. She then asked if I was hurt, "No just a little shook-up." Next day I walked back up with a "good" tire and jack and drove the car back to the house. If a parent was caught letting a 14-15 year old do something like that these days the kid would be in a new home and parent doing time! Probably most of what I learned messing with those old junkers is what not to do, but that is a good learning process in itself!
While we are talking of pay scales and such, one thing that always bugged me is the fact that people like singers can record a song then for years after they continue to get royalty checks for every-time the song is played on the radio or used in a movie. Wouldn't it be nice if that engine you rebuilt last year would send you a check once a month rated on how many miles the truck went or how many tons of stone it pulled out of the pit at the quarry? Heck even $0.01 per mile or ton of stone would sure add up over time and the number of engines you worked on.
Well....if we could ever get the general public to realize we have a talent just like a musician does. The difference is without our talents they ain't gonna drive to the concert or have a building to record in. Mainstream public takes all those things for granted. That's always been a pet peeve of mine. Very very few understand what it takes to fix this stuff, how we learn, how each of us has a particular area of expertise whether it be from experience of just a God given gift. There are times I think my wife considers this forum just a way for me to f-off. I have learned a lot from many great people on here. Being around OIH last week I think helped her understand a bit. This is almost like homework for me. Same reason I sit and read manuals for stuff built 20-30 years ago. Heck, on my kitchen table are all the manuals I got from DMiller awhile back. I told my 13 year old daughter if she read one, passed a test I wrote I'd shave my beard Maybe instead of showing the next generation it's a good vocation we should consider how to ignite their passion for it. It all trips a person's trigger in a different way.....
IF ONLY Hansen.. IF ONLY.. lol I look in the local Cr. List almost every day under DIESEL JOBS just to see whos hiring & what their paying.. HOLY SMOKES.. you gotta have a friggin Masters degree in ALL THINGS diesel + trailer repair.. for 14-18.00/hr.. with MANDATORY rotating weekends.!!! They can KMA.!! Its no wonder the youth don't get in the business..
True that pumpguy. I'm damn lucky where I'm at. It helps I can run the lowboy too, lord knows what that saves them. It's a shame things don't pay better, imagine a federal mandated $15 minimum wage for flippin burgers....
I don't really care how much flak I catch for this statement but when it comes right down to it, we're as smart or smarter than doctors. The human body is pretty much the same, regardless of race. Put a Bobcat skid steer next to a Cat skid steer and tell me they get repaired the same lol.
I've had similar thoughts myself. We work on stuff that can't talk to us and the human describing the symptoms is most likely talking a line of bs to cover their ***!
I had an "old hat" tell me one time while we were in the mens room.. You know the difference between an MD, medical dr. & a DM, diesel mechanic..?? cuz basically we do the same thing.. A DM washes his hands BEFORE he takes a pizz.. lol Hold true to this day.!!!
That is PRICELESS!! LMFAO!
One thing I know for sure if your good at your job you make it look easy to everyone on the outside. I don't care if your a rocket scientist or ditch digger. FYI I have friends and family in the medical field and I wouldn't do there job. Our mistakes generally don't cost someone there lives or get us sued for $100s of thousands. Also most of us in our field ain't known for our people skills, so I doubt we would make very good doctors.
You've summed it up well
"Drs only have to know 2 models, we have to know thousands" was on the wall of a shop my brother worked in in the early '80s
Nope it's the fact they had nothing growin up and a crap job to us is the cats ass to them. Plenty of my hands grew up eating whatever they could get raccoon, possum, cats, lizards, or whatever. Most of them didn't have their first pair of shoes until they where well into there teens had a job and could buy them themselves. The fact is our country's greatest asset isnt our skilled work force it's our ingenuity.
Lol whatever people have to tell themselfs to boost there self-confidence.
That's what the politicians here in Alberta are trying to do! They say it will improve the quality of life for low income earners. What they don't realize is how many jobs will be lost because of this because there sure aren't many people who can afford to pay someone $15.00 an hour just to pour your coffee or things like that. Not only that, but a lot of kids I see coming out of school these days aren't worth half that! I think there will be a lot more unemployed people when this comes to pass. The other thing I find, and I have no first hand experience here since my boy isn't old enough for school yet, but I've heard from several people now that schools really seem to be pushing kids to get some form of college or university degree, otherwise you're a second rate citizen. That and the "everybody gets a prize" attitude so nobody gets their feelings hurt... No wonder every one of these kids think they can start up at the top! Anyway, rant over......
What I'm seeing is their MOUTH.!!! We have 2 "kids" at work.. 1>19 & 1>20.. All they wanna do is play on that GD phone.!! & they wont shut-up!! all the 19yo talks about is high school & the 20yo wants to kickin your ass.. Theres an awful lot of screwdrivers & hammers laying around for someone to be threatening a former Marine.. just sayin..
Exactly. I got into an argument with someone who thought a $15/hr minimum wage was a great idea: Them: "So what if a double double at Tim's goes up to $4.00, you make a lot of money and can still afford it!" Me: "It still costs you the same $4.00 for that coffee." Checkmate
Kind of like working a Detroit overhead and governor in one hour then resetting the plungers on a Cat the next, all in knowing the variables to machines. Have to add the old age spider senses too, when you can smell, feel or hear a difference you know is just flat wrong. Then I got lucky with a bid into a power station, learned all new machinery but the senses still shined thru, a difference to the rumble, a new squeal, a smell I had not picked up on all that in one way or another led me to a problem developing not yet fully flowered out.
I completely agree, i live in a rural area and that is exactly how I got started. On both ends. I was but a little guy spending every weekend in the shop with my dad working on his hot rod or cash customers cars and equipment and hot rods. By the time I was 12-13 I was rebuilding mikuni carbs for all the neighbors quads and dirtbikes and overhauled my first honda 300 at about 13. I was also homeschooled until highschool and had alot of oppurtunity to shadow my dad and a few other old timers. I agree with junkyard too, although for a different reason, my boy wont have the too new and complex or complicated simply because he will have to adapt. The was the biggest thing I learned from my dad, he would not adapt, did solely engine work for years and years. Now he is breaking into doing almost everything on the automotive side, and actually enjoying it at that.
My Dad started off after WWII as a aircraft mechanic, had to know it all and be body man, serviceman, engine tech as well pilot the machines after repairs to validate it worked. Tough days in the 50's Aviation was changing much as our business has changed and continues to. Jets from piston power, pressurized cabins, high altitude flight and loads of electronic stuff, he got to where could not cope so entered the aircraft building business, stayed there until age 67. Passed at 82, still remember and refer to the simple basics lessons he taught me.
I agree and then there are less farm kids than ever turning out that grew up wrenching. The big farms and new equipment is in the same boat as the new cars.
The biggest thing that I see running people off is the overhead. I have had a runnig payment on the tool truck since I was 14-15. It is a huge investment having over $100k in tools to make $18-25 an hour, in my area the benefits at the dealers are almost nill unless you are at one of the few union dealers left around. Seems kind of silly to spend that much when you could have a stress free job that is easy on the body for about the same pay.
When I gave up wrenching for real work I packed my tools home. Had spent something like $55k from 1975 to 1996 just on new stuff. The tools in my shed are out of date for the most part, just sold a load of not been used in fifteen years stuff to Junkyard a few weeks back, hope he gets some use of them. I have a working life span worth of tools sitting in my shop, have no intention of losing many more of them as I can still use the remainder on my own old junkers, feel so sorry for the new kids trying to get tooling to make production wages, seems you never get caught up with either. Used to be all the shops supplied the specialty tools, those days are now gone where if you or your bud do not have them someone that does gets the work and you sit.
I think the best move I made was steering clear of the tool trucks as much as possible when I started out. Still though I think my $50k or so investment in tools has had a greater return than wasting 4 years and $50k on a degree.
I'm with you 92U.. my 1st set of tools came from harbor frt in the EARLY 80's & I still have most ofum.. lol Granted. 90% are cut-up or bent for special jobs but I STILL hav'em.. Moved over to Crapsman after that, then on to afew Strap-ons.. the BIGGEST purchase from the truck came when I needed some torque wrenches.. 250.00 for a 3/8 flex head & 350.00 for a 1/2"..other than that, they can keep their 35.00 10mm box end wrench.. Sorry got off topic.. lets get back to it.. The younger kids wont stand up for them selves either... 1 of the older guys at work[62yo] thought it would be "funny" to hose the 19yo down today.!!! The poor kid was soaked to his sox w/ water.. He yelled FU, I don't need this *hit.. & hit the time clock.. I think he quit?? I wouldn't blame him if he did.. I felt sorry for the kid.. The ahole that did it is on "workmans comp" so they cant fire him.. NOW IF IT WERE MY PLACE.. that would be MY REASON, TO FIRE HIM & get him off my WC..!!!
Oh boy. I'd have probably emptied a dry chem fire extinguisher into the guy's toolbox if it were me.
The problem with some youngsters is they haven't learned all those fun little ways of retribution. My oldest daughter was asking me for senior prank ideas when she graduated a few months ago. After I rattled off a dozen or so she stopped me and asked how I knew all of them haha. The pranks at work got so bad the owner stopped them all.....
Thats where tapping a grease zerk into the back of the guys toolbox and pumping a full barrel of grease into it would work. Untill schools quit brainwashing kids into the idea that anything less then college is a failure, the trades are going to suffer. I do think mechanics tend to be a tad undervalued in general, but I've never been around a good mechanic that didnt have all work he wanted. As the shortage grows the wages should go up. At least thats my hope. Lol
I'm 23 working as a farm mechanic, I have an intern in the shop from the local college who is 18 I think and shows good promise. There are young people going into the field at least around here. Quality of the people is more of an issue than quantity it seems to me, equipment has gotten more complex over the years as well and that doesn't help the issue. I wouldn't be so quick to blame the pay as others in the thread have been, I make good money and there are shops around that pay more. Anyone making only $18 an hour is doing so by choice, if you're willing to put the effort into continuing your education you can do pretty well for yourself. May be different in other areas of the country...
You can fire someone on workers comps for (super) just reason and I think that guy crossed the line. There is probably a lawsuit brewing if the kid has friends in the place that witnessed it. Of course the employer takes the hit instead of the a**hole.
You got that right. Gone are the days when you could have a good engine or hydraulic mechanical guy that did not know about electronics and keep him to his corner with plenty of work. Now every mechanic has to know electronics quite well in order to do his job well and he also has to know the real mechanical stuff and even that stuff is more complicated than it used to be. "They" say no one can take advantage of you without your permission. So get out, start your own thing, find a better employer in a niche market, make yourself more marketable by acquiring some skills and certs.
I'm a small company have two large one small field trucks have a full machine shop newest lathe was prolly built in the 60's I have some good young guys under 25 but they we're hard to find, but when I was kid I would have loved to work in a shop like this. On the other hand down in crusher floor changing a busted link on excavator 100+ and the link before and after looks about the same, I just tell them you got to love it or you will hate it besides that you should have been a doctor.
I don't think that would be a step up! I'd much rather have an old diesel sneeze in my face that some person who may have some incurable disease!
I agree I was just telling there options
I couldn't ever be a doctor. I can hardly even handle taking a first aid course without getting queazy lol.
I don't mind other people's blood. It's the sight of mine that affects me.....
I'm working on this guy...
Oh I was drafted into Army Jun66...drawing blood, the big dudes passing out. Seen enough blood, guts and brain matter, ain't fun! My WW2 vet dad taught vets mechanics~machining paid by Vet Admin. 1 Redheaded guy turned out to be a good automotive mechanic with 1 ARM!
Part of the problem is we don't have farm / ranch kids anymore as the farms & ranches have gotten bigger & fewer. Another issue is that we won't let anyone work before they're 18. You know how many of my contractor customers grew up working with their dad or family business as kids? Lots. Take a 15 year old on a job site now and you'll probably end up in prison. You can't teach an 18 year old hard work and dedication. I'm fighting this uphill battle with a 12 & 13 year old right now. The lack of ambition is frustrating. We've done some things I would have never done if it wasn't for wanting to teach kids how to work. I've told them they're buying their own cars. I've told them they'll be walking at 16. But getting them to mow laws or power wash for easy money isn't working. I've got a customer who's wanting to turn over the reigns to his 32 year old son for a couple years now. He's taken almost no responsibility for anything. And there are several others that way as well.
I see the same thing with kids not wanting to work. I'm fortunate that all my kids seem to have a good work ethic. They've all grown up with me busting my ass to take care of them and see their mom work as well. I often reward them for work, not commensurate with that they do at times but I want to reinforce that. My boys are the opposite. It's damn near impossible to keep them from wanting to help and learn. Sometimes I just want to get it done! I hope they stay that way in whatever they choose to do in life. So many factors at play in regards to why kids won't or don't want to work, in any profession. Lots of theories as to why..... I do think a lot of it starts at home and also comes from outside influences as well. Social media, reality tv (an effin joke if you ask me), poor examples for teachers etc. It's an uphill battle.
Kinda funny I was visiting my parents a few weeks ago. My mom told while I was growing up she actually had other parents give her crap because she made us kids do our chores. Apparently its wrong to expect your kids to mow the lawn, take the trash out, help with firewood etc. I just laughed and said: "Yeah, look at where their kids are now"
Funny you should mention TRASH.. We got this 20 yr old at work who WILL NOT take out his trash.!!! He has 2 work benches & BOTH cans are overflowing.. have been for 2 weeks!!! I take mine out SEVERAL TIMES A WEEK.. just for the shear fact that when I drop a small part in it, I wont have to dig thru a mountain of crap to retrieve the part.. NOT HIM.. & its not like they're 30gal steel containers.. they're 5gal PLASTIC buckets w/ trash bag liners.!!! You grab the bag, walk 10 yards & throw it in the dumpster & walk back.. DONE>> Monday will be the beginning of week 3.!!! & to TOP IT OFF.. his DAD works there.!!! OH, I forgot to mention, he's an idiot too..
I hear ya, seems none of the new twerps can pick up after themselves, expect 'Mommy' to come clean up their mess as always. Just set me to thinking what happens to them when Mom and Dad end up in nursing care or die off, the money, housing and assistance dries up?
A tale of two kids. The first kid still at school turns up at a mates hydraulic shop every day after school, cleans the swarf off the lathe and drill press, mops the shop floor and smoko room and makes up hoses that the other fellas hadn't had time to do. On weekends he helped his dad on his trawler getting it ready to return to sea. On finishing school he starts an apprenticeship at my mates shop and is 2 years into it. A deadset willing young bloke and well thought of by clients. Second kid has heaps of ability but won't use it. He has JD, NH ** and Case dealerships all within walking distance of home plus Autoelectic and Injecton shop near by. Further more there are small crop farmers all around the area who are screaming out for workers. So this kid stays in bed all day playing games on his computer, sucking up taxpayers dollars and allowed to by his mom. This kid has become the most useless barstard God ever shoveled guts into and is my step grandson and is a product of his up bringing as are the useless others who steal oxygen.
Standing help wanted signs all over Mid-Missouri as to mechanics, trainees for machining, welding, mechanic; weld shops in a bind cannot get help, machine shops trying to expand but no newer employees to do so. Have written the State Tech school and the local representation as to this problem but no one seems to understand the problem or willing to open up to look for a problem as they make enough (for now) tax money from the businesses that are still healthy. Scary.
And heres me, 20 year old kid who started to "help" turn wrenches at about age 6, can't even get hired at home depot. Seems most folks doing the actual hiring don't care for someone going to engineering school full time, and finishing putting together a farm and machine shop by himself after Dad died. Be nice to get a part time operating or mechanic job, help pay for school.
That's one thing I noticed when trying to get my first wrenching job at 18. Everyone just seems to assume that because you're young, you're an idiot/party animal/lazy. Just keep banging on doors and showing the best version of yourself. Someone will hire you eventually.
As one whom has hired a few thousands of people over 44 years I can tell you this. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you are not on the job you are of no value to the project. A green, learning operator for a couple hours a day is not going to get the job done for most contractors. Look at it factually. You are looking for a contractor that's willing to risk time, money, and possibly a very expensive machine, on a part time person that is very likely not going to be around when he is done with his education. Not trying to be harsh, just trying to help you understand the other side of the coin and what you are asking for.
Totally understand that, but with taking 19-20 hours of classes a semester, and generally a couple of summer courses, I'm tied up during the day. And then during exams there will be two weeks where I'll be running balls to the wall and lucky to get sleep. I've all but given up finding a operator or mechanic job, mainly due to that issue. I was able to work the dirty guy that did the clearing and foundation for the shop I had built over the Christmas brake, school has me busy again. Looking for a more "normal" part time thing at night, while working to get at-least the machine shop up and running. Not got much more to get and I can chase hydraulic cylinder and pump repair, gotten pretty good at it working on all my leaking junk and those shops seem to always be busy. I've been reading this thread from the start, but been staying out. I'm just commenting that there are young folks out there than know what work is and while not may be 100% qualified, have the aptitude needed to fix stuff and run equipment.
In general for heavy machines or even trucks you will be hard pressed to find temporary or part time work beyond a cleaner position on night crews. That is when a major portion of heavy work gets done in the shops and where a novice is pretty much either in the way or cannot be unattended. Machines need to run the next day or few, cannot be awaiting lesson time. Even when I started over 40 years ago it was full time balls out work at production rate and either starve or smother, 10-12 hour days no less than 6 days a week in the busy season. When we slowed back in the fall and the machines we patched or neglected during the on season rush came in we were at it like madmen trying to ready them for the next season. Only slow times were just as work restarted first of spring where we became the extra operators and truck herders to around Christmas/New Years when we all took our needed vacations. I did take some online and a few off hours courses, could never muster enough time to dedicate to studies so just went to work. Farm machines is full time all summer and harvest/planting seasons with slow time dead of winter except for livestock farmers, they never shut down.
Temporary agencies solve some of the problems discussed in this thread. But it only works if there's a carrot on a stick. When I worked in the oilfield, the best paying jobs were working for the oil company directly. On any job site, more than half the personnel were working for contractors hoping to get hired on with the oil company. They had to prove themselves for a year or two (depending on market conditions etc.) before the company would hire them. The advantage of this system is that the company knew what they were hiring. The disadvantage was the cost of the carrots. It only works if you overpay company personnel a bit.
Pushing a broom in a workshop can lead to great things in life as the first kid I mentioned up thread. Another yarn, a young fella arrives in America, no idea what he's going to do for a dollar. He starts a job pushing a broom at an aircraft repair outfit at Bakersfield Cal. Pretty soon he is the go to gofer and ends up on the spanners, becomes a legal, studys gets his CAA certification and starts his own repair business. For a number of years he also has had an aircraft agency.Just goes to show not only witches can fly with a broom. By the way the bloke mentioned here is my brother.
The kid took out his trash today.!!! start of week 3.!! I got tired of looking at it & tied the bag closed.. he couldn't stuff anything else in it, so he HAD TO take it out.. I actually think it smells better in the shop?? lol
My first post in this forum. After reading this thread I had to share- About 15 years ago I hired a kid I knew that I thought had potential and put him with one of my old-hand foreman. It was really rough at first, the foreman was not happy- "typical kid these days, doesn't know how to work...blah, blah". After a couple of years the 'kid' was glued to the foreman's hip, the only hand he would work with- "I'm not training anyone else for you, so don't ask". I ended up selling that business & when I did the 'kid' went out on his own (I helped him get started) and has done OK for himself. Fast forward to last Sunday- He calls me up and asks if he can come over and use some of the equipment in the shop. As we're working we are BS'n and he starts ranting about how he just can't get good help these days "typical kids these days, don't know how to work....blah, blah". Full circle.
There is still a few go getters around my area. I know a lot of younger guys, 18-24, that are doing good. Some are ag mechanics others are construction and truck guys. When I needed a new guy for the farm a couple years ago I had 2-3 good prospects on the top of the pile. One of them didn't have a resume, but when he showed up for the interview he had a older diesel ford pickup that had been set up for pulling. As we talked I found out he liked to work on pickups, motorcycles. ATVs basically anything. He even got his CDL in a barrowed truck, he didn't need it where he was employed before, but figured it would be a good idea to have it in the future. To me that showed someone with motivation and the ability to think ahead. So I hired him. Has been with me 3 years and has been a great guy to work with. Eager to learn. So there is some good ones out there even if they don't always look good on paper.
we need some help terrible in pleasanton tx for shop or field work..ex military preferred as we speak the work ethic.. texas vets told me good luck!!!!!!!!!!
Youth not entering the trades? I have two words........ Snap Chat... They can do anything other than play on those damned phones all day. Planning parties on Snap Chat has motivated me to send two packing in the past year.
There are still go-getters out there, I see them around the school welding shops and machining shops and what not... I would say it's disproportionate though, always need people to use their hands building and fixing things, not just drawing out the plans, managing or dealing with human relations. I would also say the military captures a good amount of these people though, you get experience working on reputable machinery along with all the other benefits of being in the military. If they decide to get out, they can use that experience to land a job somewhere they can be of use.
I'll start by saying I support those in the services and my experience with dealing with an ex-military mechanic, at least those under 60 years old involved only one guy looking for a job at the shop where I worked. The problem I had trying to give my boss feedback on the young man is he had know idea of what he worked on in civilian terms, fault worked both ways as when he mentioned the equipment he had been trained he only knew the military designation for it so I had no idea what it was either! I also got the impression that in the military only certain grade levels were allowed to do certain jobs. One example he gave me is that he was allowed to install an injector in a Detroit, he did know what that was, but was required to step back and let someone with a higher grade adjust the rack and time it. I can understand a system like this as you can't just give someone an afternoons class on something then expect them to be an expert. I'm sure if I had been talking with a person who had say 10 years in the service and had much more training the conversation would have made me feel like I needed to go back to school to compete with the "new guy"! In the end he was not hired, but that might have been good for him as this was just prior to the shop being "down-sized" more or less out of existence.
Military is a big place. I'm not surprised that there is some level of unknowing. A lot of these guys they will teach them the basic skills and tech stuff, but may leave the more complicated things like injector timing to those with more experience gained on the same path they're on. Always hearing about how the new guys can't be of use, can't make good techs, not worth their time, and while I agree somewhat with the overall interests skewing away from being gear heads, there are a few out there who know their stuff, just not enough to go around. Those who don't know quite all of it yet are learning. I figure it was the same way back when gear heads were plenty, but they where overshadowed and taught by those-who-know. Plus maybe some rose-tinted goggles, or remembering only the best of people, not the unknowing (unless they were especially stupid).
I started looking at this subject differently a few years ago. Kids are dumb and only know what they are taught. We were dumb and our folks were dumb but we were taught to be smart, diligent, respectful, etc. Once again, kids only know what we teach them so it is our responsibility to make them successful or our fault if they fail.
It does fall back on their parents and mentors. But I feel like it's harder today than it may have been just a few decades ago. Reality tv, technology such as smart phones etc can be a great teaching tool or an incredible distraction that creates unrealistic hopes, leads them down the wrong path and sets poor examples. I've always tried hard with my own kids or even any younger employees/coworkers I've had. But I agree we're all part of the problem and solution. It's safe to say that any of us in a position to be a mentor would gladly take a chance to pass our knowledge and experience along. Even if it's just a chance to make them see the opportunity or better yet a chance to instill the simple desire to work and learn. If that's done the rest is easy. We are in the fortunate or unfortunate position to counteract all the other less than savory influences in a young person's life. I won't get on my soapbox and start naming them because I was to obstain from political talk if for no other reason than my own blood pressure!!
As Junkyard is aware maybe some of you all here, I am a fountain of trivial small inconsequential details as to machines. I remember those little things that were not written in the service manuals and had to find them on my own or was lucky enough to catch a old man (as myself now) that would teach me. I have tried to pass along some of that even to the kids we had at the power station where you need to listen to the machine, hear the little noises that change with weather or temperature or load changes and get to know the rumbles or vibrations little creaks and moans or the machine will leave you standing in your own **** pile when it throws up around you. Many had no clue what I meant, to me the noises and smells with the smallest vibrations changes are the first indications of problems and start watching closer.
In the last 70 years or so, parental influence has been incrementally usurped by outside influences like teevee and public school social engineering (completely devoid of work ethic and personal responsibility) to the point that only the very most capable of parents can raise reasonably sane and intelligent children.
Some of this problem also comes upper levels of corporations. Like the place I worked, my immediate supervisor was well aware of my retirement day at least a full year in advance. He mentioned that he had several times told his bosses that he would like to get a replacement lined up and working with me as soon as possible. To me trying to pass on much of what I had learned over the 40+ years was not going to be very successful. Not that I was that smart but way too many problems or situations don't come along every year! Then it got down to maybe two or three weeks before I was walking out the door they finally let him stick one of the guys at the quarry come in the shop to work with me. Then when after about a week I suggested that they get him set up with an email account and internet access the two of us were told: "Well we are not sure Bill is actually going to get the position, we have to post it and also advertise it in the paper." You can imaging how Bill felt after being given only a couple weeks to try to learn as much as possible then be told someone else might be walking in the door to take the job! Even after I was gone it took upper management a couple months to finally decide to give Bill the job. However as I hear he is only actually working in the shop 1/3 of the time and the majority of the time he is out filling in running equipment in the plant. This Bill may not actually fit the subject of this thread too close as he is not a "kid" I would say he is in his mid-40's and has had some basic experience working
I TOTALLY AGREE, Hansen.. 100%. When I went out when my back shattered, they hired a kid .. stuck him w/ 2 idiots, that I wouldn't let change the oil in my lawn mower.. He's ruined now.. and left to his own devices.. I've been back for 3 months now & he hasn't made a single cent for the company..book time is 10 hrs, he takes 25.. and no one seems to notice or care.. SAD, VERY SAD..
Boy I sure hope I'm as happy and optomistic as you guys once I'm your age. I may be young but I know that people see what they look for. I know quite few guys younger then me that are sensible, smart, hardworkers. I know quite a few that are as useless as teats on a boar. I've noticed the same thing with older guys. Dont really think the ratios are that much different.
I agree, some never learn or grow up. They just grow old.....
I learned a bit. I grew old, BUT I refuse to grow up. .
Nothin wrong with that. I've learned some myself. Come hell or high water I'm not gonna grow up!
We went through major layoffs nearly 2 years ago. The 3 older guys (60's and 70's) volunteered to leave when they heard they were going to let some of the younger guys go. While it was admirable that they were willing to retire to save other's jobs we also had over 150 years combined experience walk out the door that day. They had plans for months prior to put the apprentices with these guys too.
Toys just get bigger as does the toy boxes!! It is a trick to grow up!
Rigid tool co did a survey and found only 6% of high school students planned on working in the trades. Anecdotally the few kids I knew all went into white collar industries, only 1 kid went into the trades, and his dad was a homebuilder.
With so many getting degrees in software engineering, environmental science, cultural studies, etc. it should (if I remember basic economics) drive the pay scale down to about minimum wage for those jobs & those few that go into the trades will be making 6 figures? OK, everybody stop laughing now....
Not that many kids are getting degrees in software engineering, it requires an IQ 130+ most get degrees in soft areas like political science or gender studies. If my IQ was that high I'd definitely go into that field.
This is exactly what I see happening with my particular generation, They have been raised to think college is the only way to go, but no direction. I went to college, but it was also trade school in a way. I received an accredited associate degree in applied sciences along with full FOMOCO certs. at the end. Seems like the rest of my generation wants to get a degree in feminist dance study, then complain about how they cannot find a job.
Really though, trades are like the best kept secret when it comes to jobs. Good and knowledgeable tradespeople will always find work. By the time most of my friends started finishing their degrees and getting out in the workforce I had already earned my Red Seals. The best part is that 90% of earning the Red Seal ticket is paid on the job training so I was out earning while I was learning. I don't see any other university or college programs like that.
The Ford ASSET program, GM ASEP program, and there was also an ASE program at the college I went to, it was a paid internship program, had to work at a shop to be considered. We went to school for 8 weeks, the went full time work for 8 weeks and worked with a mechanic that did mostly what we learned about that section. The come back to school for 8 weeks and do the book work on something else, and go back and work under that mechanic at the dealership.With the school side of things, we also had math, engish, social studies, psychology, political science, etc. I came out Master certified with a degree along with it opening the door to any dealer I wanted to work at, along with most of the Ford fleets in my area. The reason I decided on that particular program was the real world, paid shop experience. I have worked with graduates from certain trade schools that are also fully certified but recieved no real world experience, therefore they cannot fix a sandwich.
We do things a bit different up here. All the trades are regulated by the government. Once you get signed up as an apprentice with an employer, you work 1500 hours, then attend 8 weeks of school and write the exam to move up. After 6000 hours of work experience and 4 blocks of schooling you can write the Red Seal test, which recognizes you as a Certified Journeyman Canada wide. You can challenge years but if you fail the test I think twice, then they make you attend school before you can write it again.
Dang, that is a lot different, I dunno if I could deal with that much government regulation.
Really not so much different than the union apprentice programs here. Complete your hours and pass the schooling before you can advance. Ours run 400 hours, school, etc.
I went from a 25 year journeyman into a training course for power station operator, Nuclear. Took 16 months of pressing hard to get thru the Fundamentals then each of five watch stations and sub stations within the watches. Having no Navy, no boiler time, no trig or even advanced algebra then getting thermodynamics, fluid flow, nuclear theory, the effects of all the conjoined systems in the facility and made it all work out inside a 40 year old head was tough. I finished second man of eight that started with twelve. Beat out three Navy nukes to the finish line as they dragged ass.
Its not so much regulation as it is having a nationwide standard for trades training.
I'm now twenty and I'm a friction crane operator as well as dirt moving equipment operator. In high school everyone pushes you so hard for college and more education but I sorta refused to go. The Monday after I got my diploma I went to the union hall and joined the apprenticeship. I work for a relatively small company so the trade blend together. I am a machinist, 4g welder, mechanic truck driver, I run dozers excavators loaders and graders, I crane there friction cranes ranging from 35 ton up to 160 ton and I often run clamshells and draglines. And again I just turned 20 so I have lots of time to learn new things
DAM RYAN..!!! You got it goin on!! Sock your money away & spend it on property.. it never goes out of style & they don't make anymore of it.. I started buying in my late 20's & started selling in my early 40's.. I now live in a nice house w/ property, on the lake, bought & paid for, no payments for over 10 years.. Look around, I'll bet you know 5-10 people in their 50's that still don't have a pot to pizz in or a window to throw it out of.. but I'll bet money they ALL drive a nice car/truck?? {w/a payment book} Take these "early years" & make the most out of it while your young.. work that O/T & make that money.. It sure is nice to NOT HAVE TO WORK at 50.. just sayin'..
Thanks man. I work lots of overtime and double time. I just got off two months of 7-12's. And yes property is on the list of things to by very soon. I still live at home and have two cranes. One is a link belt ls58 and the other is a little bantam truck crane and I also have a couple little dozers so my parents are wanting me to move out
Ryan, I think you may do different things on the job but saying you're a machinist, welder and mechanic you don't have enough years of experience to be all these things. Were your parents in construction? Thepumpguysc gives good advice.
Yeah I know I am young but I started running my dads excavator when I was 4. And I first learned to weld when I was 10 and I grew up working on equipment with my dad. I bought my first lathe when I was 14 and now have 2 lathes and three milling machines and do everything from making bushings to cutting gears and splines. I have my 4g weld certs when I was 18. I have my ncco crane card. Today I was at a mill running a 80 ton hydro swinging beams into place then when I was done I was helping the millwrights finish weld them. I know 20 seems young but I grew up around all this stuff
Well luckily we have a few youngin,s starting on our 37,s,33,s and 31,s.I was Abit surprised,had,nt seen any new operator,s on scraper,s for year,s.I reckon all the youngin,s have heard their father,s,uncle,s etc say stay away from them their too rough.We have companies over here that can't get enough scraper operator,s,there's alot going on at the moment.Our company is doing what other,s won't,training up our own.
I had lunch with a friend whom is a supervisor at the Cat paver/roller manufacturing facility in the Minneapolis, MN area. The paver business is booming and they are way behind on production. They have had help wants adds out for months and still have need of 21 more welders as of yesterday plus some assembly workers. They went internal to Cat employees first and they found that most people are not willing to relocate even when their home plant is getting closed and demo'ed. Contact Cat if you have a welding cert and want to get your foot in the door.
cat is in a boom right now and that's happening in every plant its sad but Minneapolis is a little to cold for me ill stay at the Sanford plant
I hear that a lot about the cold. If folks make it through the first winter they usually like it and stay to become lifers. They are prepared and know what to expect by the second winter. Good to here that Cat is busy other places. They are shutting down a assembly plant somewhere though. Aurora? maybe?
The 20yo was given a pump today, just so happened to be my forte'.. so I told him.. if you have any questions or need any guidance, just ask, I'm right here.. His answer was, "kool".. THEN HE SAID, "I know how to do these, I was doin them when you were out".. Within 3 MINUTES I was yelling STOP.. what the hell are you doing??!!! Put that hammer down.. WHY are you using a cresent wrench?? don't you have any sockets?? Use your left hand & wiggle it.. OMG!! It was a friggin nitemare.. I finally stopped what I was doing & led him down the right path.. as best I could.. The kicker came when I asked him WHY he wasn't using the correct tool?? He said, you mean this one?? & pointed to the correct dismantling tool.. I said, YEA, THAT ONE.. He said, Oh I don't LIKE THAT ONE.. THATS when I shook my head & walked off.. He KNEW, there was a correct tool & refused to use it.!!! How the hell can you help anyone like that??!!! Like I said in a previous post> HE'S RUINED...
Too many hammer heads out there for fine work, they were the bane of the old days as they destroyed as much as fixed.
You mean there's no place for a 5lb sledge in pump work?
im not really sure what is shutting down but I know we have the same problem being short handed for about everything. everything in my area is hiring and the economy is going strong so a lot of places around me don't have enough help. also I'm use to Nc weather meaning its gonna be a surprise everyday one day it might be 100 degrees the next 50
50ºF? If it gets that warm OIH would be turning on the AC! It would also mean he might have to get the boat out of storage to get out on the lake to fish! Much easier to just walk out in the middle of the lake and drill a hole.
Aurora IL is not shutting down it is closing the production line for wheel loaders, some engineering is staying. Was announced April to be done around end of 2018.
when its hits 50 down here everyone is freezing and the heat is on I cant stand the heat of summer down here but hate the cold to so I just suffer twice a year
In my field.. you cant teach a mechanic to be a technician.. I'v seen it time & time again..
Hammer and punch or quality, some can't do that swap over.
I haven't read all the previous posts because this problem is everywhere not just our industry and I hear it constantly. I'm a big fan of Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) and what he is trying to do. I think there are many reasons for this problem as have already been mentioned. My dream is to see a new type of schooling or school that goes back to the basics that we're taught when children worked alongside their parents or mentor. The skills can be taught after basic initiative, pride in a good job done well, desire to dig in and help where ever is needed to complete a task, to learn from what task you are doing for future tasks (the good and bad of it), etc. I truly believe this is where schooling for anything needs to start in any trade because it's missing and how can you teach anyone to do any skill if you are missing the foundation of work. Work ethics is needed first! And many of us are to blame for not having the patience or time to teach this first ( in general, not everyone, I do see but a very few that teach this). My hope is that schooling will adapt for this or someone with more influence than I can start a schooling for the basics of work ethic. That's my .2¢
I agree Bullcat.. I've been to training schools for pumps where some of the people in the class had no idea what they were doing & had no experience & ruined the class for the rest of us.. In one training class, the instructor kicked them out.!!! They traveled from Korea.. In the Bosch training system.. you have to pass a BASIC mechanic test BEFORE you can apply to their training class's.. basic meaning, using a micrometer, caliper.. basic math & conversions.. The Pre-Tech as its called, came w/ a test at the end w/ a master key for the home manager to grade.. the pretech came w/ "shims" to measure & things like that..
Good mechanics ARE technicians, that separates them from parts changers. Tech = repairs-rebuild; pumps, injectors, turbos, cylinder heads, machining, valve groups etc. Diesel Injection systems: That field has become increasingly more specialized because of gov regulations, i.e. mandatory certified calibrated test stands, electronics etc. Also almost mandatory to belong to ADS and sources for non-OEM replacement parts. OEM's reman parts starting early 80s were bluntly 'crappy'! Lots people are simply too cognitive lazy to self-study before attending training classes, i.e. mommy or daddy or some else will do it for them! Goes back to lack of work ethic!
I took Cat SIS and ET training earlier this year. All the young guys failed because they were more interested in screwing around instead of listening. I remember back when I started in the trade. I used to always find an excuse to wander over and inquire about all the cool stuff guys were doing (like rebuilding engines, final drives etc). Learned a ton of info by doing that. I hardly ever have the newer guys come over and show interest in stuff. They've found their level it seems doing oil changes and services.
Is it me or are we constantly bombarded by stories of some person who invented a widget in their parent's basement and suddenly they're a gozillionaire? Do kids see that and think, if I just come up with one idea I'm set for life? I can stay at mom and dads until I dream that up. In reality there are many factors involved but it would be interesting to get inside their heads and figure it out. Did I say interesting? Maybe scary...... I constantly read, watch, reverse engineer and all but spy on people lol. I read an article on some research in regards to the baby boomer generation being a good bit of the reason we have this generation of thin skinned, entitled and narcissistic children. They didn't do it with those results in mind, just how it worked out with the advances in technology, media and whatnot. It's a wonder I turned out somewhat normal
Dang if you are normal I hope to get my papers saying I'm Abby Normal!
I remember way back when I was just starting out at the shop one of the mechanics from the local Euclid Dealer was talking to my dad, who at that time was the working group leader in the quarry, this guy told my dad one of the best things I could do was to take the Detroit Diesel service manual home and read it from cover to cover. It took me a couple weeks to get through it but it was time well spent. After that I often made it a habit of grabbing one of the various service manuals and at coffee break and lunch times at work at least flip through the pages just to get familiar with what was in them. Some manufactures do a much better job than others! Not sure I could get all the way through some of the latest Cat manuals, lots of good info but much more technical that that first Detroit Diesel manual, actually "borrowed" that one when I retired! As for SIS training mine amounted to "Here's the log on and this is your PassWord". ET training was at the most a half day summery with maybe 1/2 hour hands on with one computer per every 4 to 5 guys. I think I learned more snooping over the shoulders of the dealer's mechanics when they came out to do warranty work. Then again for the first three years the company had a laptop with ET it was shared between three or four other locations in the state!
SIS and ET were a day each for us. Very well put together and informative training.
SIS-ET was 2 evening classes for non-dealer customers; instructor is HEF member that seldom posts or replies because he was laid off by the dealers and makes $$$ as a consultant for $100per hour. Understandable but he rips off my PC illiterate buddies; boot legged software SIS-ET $1200.00 installed on their (his recommended laptop type over spec'd and priced)/ I was quoted $500 cash for SIS-ET and Cummins. What helped me pre-electronic was dealers providing all service bulletins, Cat, Cummins and DDA. They offered Sub-dealership wholesale pricing without requiring excessive stocking inventory costs. I still get calls from guys who purchase PCs loaded with software that don't know how to use; couple can't even email! Oh,"I'll have my daughter email", I don't know how, duh! Finally getting guys to use smartphones, record a video or take pictures and text; saves a lot of time! Basement dwellers: A lot of that is a result of social engineering, 'girls first, boy bad throw rocks at them, title 9, headstart, affirmative action...the deck is stacked against boys-males! That is the message boys are hearing via media, teachers from the time they open their eyes...males are 50yrs behind girls! Baby Boomer parents; wanted a better life for their children; resulted in spooled, daddy's little princess that believes every male will treat her like a princess = over 50% divorce rate in every industrialized country. End of Rant
Well if production is not ending there until the end of 2018 its no wonder welders are not jumping to go to Minnesota. By then Cat might change their mind and build something else there.
A problem I see with young blood coming in is how long has it been since one could raise the hood on a vehicle and actually do something other than change a filter and oil? With everything becoming so computerized, gone are the days when dad could have junior learn the basics of mechanicing helping change points and plugs, or a fan belt (now serpentine ), or do other major work without having years of training to even know what half of the visible parts are or do? What enjoyment or satisfaction (necessary for success I believe) is working on anything that is nothing but plastic and electronics and won't be around when our old stuff is still running. pumpguy; what about all the new pumps that are tamper proof, have more sensors and actuators hanging off them that without lots of training and $$$ of computer equipment can't even be touched? Some of the new tractors I work on I have no clue about how they work anymore or even how to troubleshoot them. Old hands went from carburetors and ignition to early pumps and worked up over years, not pitched into the deep end and told sink or swim. Those old Roosa's, Bosch's, CAV's etc have done worlds of work without any computerization. Hell, the old Cat's were built to be worked on in the field dirty, not in a clean room with a bunny suit on. The young ones may have a work ethic problem, but with the ever increasing complication being forced upon us working on them, why would they want to take on what could be seen as an impossible job? I have a friend that was a service manager at Holt Cat that said the majority of their work was electronic problems which I would surmise we all know are the stuff of nightmares. No thanks, not interested! Unless one is going to stay with A brand, the learning curve from basic mechanic to pro is more of a wall than a curve.
I agree with much what is said about the new electronic machines, cars, trucks, etc. I dislike them and tend to try to stay with mechanical machines that can be worked on and diagnosed without a laptop. I mainly dislike the lack of quality in the electronics of certain big brand manufactures and the lack of easy to obtain knowledge or info to work on it yourself. But with that said I have read and talked to elderly that said it was very difficult to get farmers to go from horses to tractors. I don't think I can imagine what them folks had to go through mentally to make that transition. I realize it's not exactly the same but those farmers adapted and learned how to use a totally new tool. I don't like the new way/stuff sometime ether by are elders did it and learned to enjoy the technology. They however had a drive in them that is harder to find today. Just sayin.
My Grandfather HAD to retire from Standard Oil refinery operation in the 1950's as the day had come when looking at pressure and temperature gauges while winging on valves controlling flow to the towers by hand ended and they adopted mimic board electrically driven mechanisms. He could not 'see' the operation so could not trust it nor could he adapt to work it. I entered the Nuclear power generation industry that still worked from similar mechanisms he could not manage then had to adapt to fully computerized systems as the old could not be repaired further, I can relate to his angst and issues.
The electronic pumps aren't bad.. except.. most of the parameters for the individual components don't show up bad when tested.. but you can LOOK at the piece & tell its bad.. & it came in for that component problem.. {threw a code} So you end up replacing a 300.00 part anyway.. I make a good living by staying away from the electronic pumps on the weekends.. Give me a DPA, JDB or PFR ANYDAY..
I didn't quite have this chance when I was coming up. I'd go try to learn and management would pull me away to do PM work or cut grass or some other menial job. Some places see apprenticeship as a losing situation because you aren't being productive if you are learning from the old timers. It took months of a couple old timers talking to management to get working under someone like I was supposed to.
I know EXACTLY what you mean PJ.. One of new NEW kids have been there a YEAR & the only thing they showed him was A BROOM.. sad.. VERY SAD.. I feel for the kid & told him to go.. at the first chance he gets.. He has friends that run landscaping business' & goes & makes money w/ them on the weekends & says he makes more money w/ them an a weekend than 40hrs "pushing a broom".. I asked him why he didn't just go landscaping?? He said, what am I going to learn?? How to start a lawnmower or weedeater??
Exactly what I mean, I was in an apprenticeship program, had to pay for the book part of the schooling, and they wouldnt let me work on anything but general line work and building maint. Then they got mad when I left and tried to black list me and drug my name through the dirt to every other dealer manager they could get ahold of. Even went as far as calling the manager that hired me after I put in my 2 weeks and told him it was a mistake to hire me.
WOW.. IF you could PROVE THAT.. there would be a lawsuit in a heartbeat.. The kid at my place, REALLY WANTS to learn but the "older guys" wont show him anything.. they wont give him a chance.. & leave him sitting at the shop when they go out on jobs.. unless of course they have sh-t work to do.. THEN & ONLY THEN they take him.. Here's an example>> this weekend they had a HOT JOB.. customer approved O/T & nobody wanted to work except the kid.. The "mngr" got stuck w/ the job.. so he tells the kid he's working.. the kid lives 2 miles away from the jobsite.. 50 miles away from the shop.. The mngr. tells the kid he needs to come to THE SHOP to help him load tools in the service truck [sh-t job}.. INSTEAD of the "mngr" loading the truck himself & meeting the kid at the jobsite.. OR loading the truck on Friday afternoon before they all went home.. HE MADE that kid drive 50 miles 1 way to load a frigging truck w/ HAND TOOLS.. & 50 miles BACK home OFF THE CLOCK.!!! I would have told him what he could do w/ that O/T.!!! BTW> the job was only gonna take 1 hr to complete.!!!
I actually quit the first dealership because of that kind of crap. Shop service manager wanted me working in the shop. As soon as he was gone on days off, the field service manager would send me out to this long term labour deal they had with a mine. Basically just no mind grunt work. Paid well but after 3.5 years of being bounced around and really not learning anything I quit. Went to the dealer next door. I was thrown to the wolves and it was great. Had the journeyman papers but not much experience. First day there I was stuffing a reman 3208 into a big forklift. I picked it up pretty quick and within 6 months I was getting half of the big jobs and a lot of troubleshooting work (split between me and their top guy). Absolutely loved working there and would go back in a second if given the opportunity at the right time.
What happened with the job you liked, lay off or something else?
It was a union shop and I was one of the last ones to get hired, so unfortunately when the oil slump hit I was one of the first to go.
It seems to me, that the bad apples are setting the curve for the guys (and gals) that want to learn and work. Just after the reading I have done on here and some experience I have had.
Been that way a long time, trying to correct deficiencies and preconceptions of the past are hard battles fought. I tried to set the example, tried to convey 'Tribal' knowledge yet many times I may as well have been beating my head into the concrete floor we worked on.
ill be honest I don't help this problem much we get new people and well we are short and I don't have much time to train anyone due to the build needed. so I have just been letting it be sink or swim its hard to train when someone is pushing you to be going as fast as you can and you cant really slow down to help them
Much difference if short on time, it is the hard nose that decides his effort is worth more or not worth his effort to teach or his invaluable knowledge is all that stands between he and the door so he will not share.
when we actually get full and slow down ill be able to show them better but right now I'm running around trying to do so much that I cant hardly speak to anyone with questions including management.
I hope not but I think you are kidding yourself Catwelder. When they get half caught up they will start laying personnel off, and the rest of you will still be running your butt off. Seems to be the trend now days. Makes it hard to get loyalty out of good employees that way.
I don't know if there's many shops around that do it anymore but some of the better shops would rather train a willing new apprentice and invest in their future with the company than hire someone else with a bunch of bad habits picked up along the way. Bob/Ont is an example of someone would have been a great mentor to learn from. He was always more than willing to share his knowledge and he had it in spades!
Hey old iron habit, in having been a mechanic thru those rough years of rail, trucking and other industry dereg just after the Vietnam Conflict ended I remember those days of on a job off a job. Worked as a truck mechanic fresh out of trade school only to see the massive slowdown and layoff then worked in any and every field job I could locate where ads were non-existent as shops needed no one had applicants from Nam by the car loads. They would be firing out one door and hiring in the other until they found who they wanted, very bad days then.
gotta have hope that I can enjoy a day off and come back and not be 40 down but your right when we get caught up and everyone is comfortable something will happen and its right back to step one again. guy I work with was actually injured doing the job I do now its not a great sign when they work someone to the point they almost die and still dint hire anyone. ill end up being next most likely to be have to go out due to something that would of been preventable if they would actually hire someone when they are suppose to
I know THAT FEELING TOO.. I was hired on at THE FACTORY.. they were about 3000 units behind.. I was brought in to stream-line production & figure out what the "H" was going on.. They were working 60-70 hrs aweek for the last 5-6 YEARS>> & the workers LOVED IT.. LOTS of o/t.. & job security.. I figured it out & we were caught up in 6 months.. THEN the BOSS held a meeting 1 day out of the blue.. NO MORE O/T.. without MY knowledge.!!! I told him after the meeting, what the H?? these guys have been living beyond their means for YEARS.. & DEPENDED on the O/T.. How about just cutting it back to 5hrs aweek, instead of NO O/T..?? He said, NO.. THAT didn't sit well w/ the workers.. & I was caught in the middle.. THEN about aweek later, the lay-offs started.. AGAIN, with out my knowledge.. they gutted the place, in one fell swoop.. laid off about 8 in my dept.. & made the rest of us, work our ass' off.. w/ O/T..!!!
a few months ago we where over 100 behide and we working o/t so much that I dint have a normal paycheck for months then one day they go we are going to work off the build and we caught up but it was hard. its a hard fought battle to keep up but not be so far ahead that they will cut down there is no balance when its going good its decent when stuff hit the fan then everyone is dragged down and having to push throw the mud and figure out if they wanna stay or go on to do better
I haven't had any OT since mid 2015. A few guys have talked about jumping ship and I figure I'll stay. Why go through the hassle of changing jobs for no real gain? Not like anyone else is getting much, if any, OT around here now with the oil price slump.
i got o/t for the next 4 months its not great and a lot of the guys have started looking for new jobs or starting there own business which a lot of them do for extra money aint a bad idea but I aint ready to take the plunge right now
At my shop when the "slump hit" about 10 years ago.. they came & said NO O/T.. our o/t was BUILT IN to our weekly pay.. started at 7:30 & off at 5.. that stopped.. 40hrs only.. THEN MONTHS LATER, they started to get busy.. I said, NOPE, KMA.. it don't work like that.. & haven't worked o/t in over 10 years.. HELL.. I haven't worked a 40 hr week in over 10 years.. by choice.. Lol
I have zero interest than putting in more than 11.5 a day. That's already enough. I will come in on a day off if asked though.
I know this thread is getting a bit OT and by that I mean "Off Topic" but I will add to it a bit. For years, make that decades, at the quarry OT was normal for most people. If you worked a fifty hour week and then asked to have Saturday off boss would say something like, "What you want to work Part Time?" This was half kidding and half serious, depending on the work needed doing. Well like others here have said people get used to the hours and the pay. As we are located in the snow belt 95% of our production is done between Easter and Thanksgiving time(the November one here in the USA). The majority of the people would get laid-off the Friday before Turkey day and would live on unemployment checks till they got called back in the spring. Back when the shop was "The Shop" us guys would work more or less year round. Then new management came in and OT was added to the list of sins Mosses was given and most of the time it was the top of the list! Only time OT was allowed was if sales exceeded production to the point there was no product to put in customers trucks and then only the smallest number of guys were allowed to get the OT. I heard that at several of the quarries in the area many of the guys who had been doing just fine in the past now found out that this once fairly good paying job was letting them qualify for food stamps. I also felt the quality of new hires had dropped and the turn over rate for them was much higher. "Back in the day", as they say, most everyone hired was a relative or close friend of someone who had worked there for several years. My dad got his foot in the door through our next door neighbor and I followed dad something like fifteen years latter. Last I knew there were three men still working there who got in because their dads work there and this was just the local quarry! That is a trend that I think stopped around twenty years ago.
Maybe some guys don't want their kids coming in and ruining their reputation? A lot places don't hire relatives as well. I think it depends on the individual. Some kids are great workers and keen to learn while others are pretty much useless.
I don't agree with having people working directly under their relatives. Our service manager's son is an apprentice at the shop and he's definitely got a big head because of that fact.
A lot places can have relatives working as long as it's in a separate area of the company. There are few relatives that would be great working together. My dad used to call the sons SOB's.. son's of the boss. Even working with brothers that have been at a place a long time can be frustrating.
We have 2.. Owners brother & shop foremans son.. The brother was put in a management position by fireing the former manager.. The brother has been FIRED from EVERY mechanic shop in town.. Biggest, most useless POS that walked the planet.. The foremans son is one of the 20y/o.. worthless & should have been fired months ago.. but then daddy would have to take care of him.. & THAT aint gonna happen.. so make the company & the rest of us pay for it.. THATS BS in my opinion.. The Dad & son got into a shouting match one day.. the kid told his dad, "I'll slit your f'n throat"!!!!! 1st of all, you don't ever talk to your BOSS like that & 2nd, you dam sure don't talk to your dad like that.. Had it been MY KID.. I would have got up & knocked his friggin block off.!!! But then again, MY KID wouldn't have been working there.. Is anyone getting the picture of what I have to put up w/ on a daily basis??
We had a bit of the family action at the power station, with as many as four brothers four to five from the same family male and female or father's/mother's/son's/daughter's or inlaws'. And yes, they all received from others or expected preferential treatment that I would not give. The shake up started a few years back as the older family members retired off, then the management of the plant rotated from OUTSIDE, then the **** hit the fan for most of the klans. Had to make their work show out as good or ended up re-interviewing for the non-union jobs or being 'released'. Takes time but what comes around goes around.
I worked with my dad at a dealership, as far as working goes, we ended up making a pretty good team, he was in a different spot of work that I was, I was general line/electrical repair, he was engine repair and we had a good dynamic as we have worked together on side jobs for years and communicate without words. As far as that particular dealer, now that I have been let go, word has trickled down the grapevine that the service manager hired me just to fire me to get a point across to my dad and multiple other employees. Best thing that ever happened. They were hoping it would run my dad out and let some new blood in the door, which eventually worked after another 2 years. Dad left that shop after being the first one to start when they opened the doors 26-27 years ago. The old assistant manager left to another shop and has tried to get both me and my dad to work with him there and has gone as far as to send customers from his shop to the dealer my dad is working at, along with sending cash customers to me on the outside.
I would never work with family. Nothing against my relatives but I'd rather not put that kind of strain on a personal relationship.
In my case it was more of a need and the assistant manager wanted me to work with my dad and eventually replace him when he retired
I see both side of the coin. I have seen managements kids that had to work twice as hard as everyone else and had to be top hands for sure as they were always being scrutinized. I have also seen others protected by management, never learned anything, and weren't worth a good sh*t. It's really unfair to both types. One is being punished for being related to management and the other is eventually fired after the relative in management moves on and that person has no skills to get another job because he never had to learn.
Well when I first started at the quarry dad was just one of the workers, not a boss just a long term employee. So there was not the problem of being he "boss's kid" for me or him. I also was just working as "summer help" while going to college and the second summer I actually spent working at a different quarry a few miles away from the one dad worked at so there was that separation. A few years latter when the company was starting up the shop that was to be located on the same property as the quarry dad worked at it was being managed by a separate boss than dad's boss so again I was not working directly under dad as my boss. Actually one of the first welders to work in the shop was the son of the president of the whole company so me just having a dad who worked there and ended up being a working group leader of a separate division was minor in comparison! I can only guess that the company back in those days was either lucky or had a good bunch of older employees who had thought their kids a good work ethic. As I can't really recall any problems with any of the relatives we had working there, actually some of the ones that moved on to other things were missed after they left!
You were lucky to fall into that arrangement Hansen, I could only have wished for that. My Grandfathers were long out of the refinery business, my Dad and Uncle both moved on from A&E licensed aircraft mechanic to management jobs, a load of family worked production plants as Olin Matheson (Winchester Western) and Owens Illinois Glass works as machinists, floor maintenance as well floor machine operators. I chose a different path, maybe a little harder, a little harsher but I feel made me a better person in the long run.
when I turned 18 I tried to go work with my dad because I was struggling to find a job ( its sad I call not having work for a month after you turn 18 struggling) but my dad straight to my face said no to the idea of me working with him. which lead to another job and a lot of more applications for a long time
Well I graduated from high school on June 23,1968 and 7:00AM June 24, 1968 I was at the quarry to start work. This was, as I said a "summer job" for about three years while going to Community College. During school year I did work cleaning tables in cafeteria or McDonalds along with job cleaning the local movie house on weekends. But as soon as school was out I was back in the quarry and when company started the shop I quit job I had at McDonalds and the rest is history! As DMiller says I did "fall into a good thing" even if the shop did not last till I was retired I at least kept my job.
i worked at Walmart for a little then left went to caterpillar as a welder got my college degree then went to a log mill. was basically there money manger not the accountant but actually directed funds to where I thought need to go from hiring to getting new equipment then right back to caterpillar to weld and still there and hopefully will just stay with them till I can retire. honestly I just hate putting in applications and going to interviews its easier to stay at one place then it is to try and find a new job id rather stay in a place where everything I do is clock work vs doing something new where I'm struggle again till it become clock work again then be back at the same place I was before
Newer entries to the jobs markets around here can't wait for the next opportunity to open up even if at the same money, a grass is greener kind of attitude or looking for that magical I can sit and draw great pay type job. Not much ambition sorry to say. I actually asked one why he was moving somewhere else, his comment was "it looked like easier work".
The grass IS ALWAYS GREENER on the other side.. cuz that's where all the BullS*** lands.. lol..
Rule number one in our shop- Some jobs are good, some jobs are bad-and that doesn't matter-just get after it. Three other rules! Never hire family Never a husband/wife working under the same roof Never hire from your church. Truck Shop
I'm not too keen on changing jobs much anymore. Same BS, different logo on the door. I'm really easy to keep me happy at work. Just leave me in the corner to do my job and don't drag me into shop politics or corporate BS. For some reason both those are very hard for companies to understand.
when i left Walmart it was because I hated that job and would rather be in a ditch digging with a shovel or anything then welding came took it. after a little after that things where going down hill so I jumped ship. went to the log mill and went well for two years then this the third year the business was split between two brothers and they put there kids in charge. that put me in a worse situation to have 6 bosses and all of them telling me 6 things to do so back to caterpillar I went and now I'm still there and planning to stay till I'm fired, die, or caterpillar goes under and everything is lost
In my career I can't remember anyone ever coming into my office and saying, I just dropped in to tell you that everything went well today. When someone seen me, it was either "We got a problem," or more often, "You got a problem". Being the boss is not always easy, but I can tell you that it would be impossible if not for the wisdom and the talent of the craftsmen on the crews making tough jobs look easy.
I was given an antique fire extinguisher by my boss and some one else gave an antique fire helmet to put on it because it seems some days all I do is put out fires LOL. We have about 30+ employees in our department and for the most part are hardworking and dependable. The employees know my door is open and if there's a problem, they can depend on me to deal with it. Being 2nd in command, I could push the problems up the chain but that's not what they pay me to do.
GET THIS>> I was helping a younger kid/foremans kid in the test room.. This kid has worked there for about 2 years & his work is "ok".. lets just say it'll "pass".. it aint right but... SO I'm kinda watching & teaching at the same time.. 1st tool he pulls out is an adjustable wrench.!!! I say, WHOA DRAGON.. you have a box w/ 5000.00 worth of wrenches, in a room full of 5 million dollar test equipment & all you can come up with is a Cresent Wrench?? I said, DO NOT EVER let me see you using THAT TOOL IN HERE.. SO.. he pulls out the appropriat tool & starts goin to town mounting a pump.. So he keeps using the "open end" of the wrench to tighten down all the clamps..{ to which he was going to use the adjustable.} I tell him, USE THE BOX END of the wrench to do that.. He holds up the wrench & says.. is this the box end?? & points to the OPEN END.. *** !!!??? NOBODY taught this kid the difference!!! I was dumbfounded to say the least.. I didn't yell or make him feel "stupid", I mearly said, NO.. think about it.. open end.. closed end.. {BOX} He understood & we proceeded on..
Maybe if you used "proper English " and said to use the "ring spanner" he might have had a better chance at getting it right! Hard to believe the kid of the foreman of a pump shop who has worked in the shop for two years did not know the difference between an open end and box end of a wrench! Any chance this kid is a graduate from Midvale?
It's Bart Simpson's fault... under achiever and proud of it.
I'll admit I'm guilty of reaching for the all-sixteeths from time to time. Usually when the machine is dead in the water, at the bottom of a steep, muddy hill and 200+ meters from the closest spot I can get my service truck to it. Really sucks to have to travel all that way back to the truck because you needed a 10mm instead of a 3/8"
I just used my adjustable today on a pot-type oil filter. Very low overhead and my back did not feel like crawling back out to the socket tray and the adjustable was within reach. (Channellock makes by far the best, much tighter and stronger than the rest of the garbage out there. But don't let it get wet, the tight clearances mean it rusts up easily. But some WD-40 and banging will restore them)
I've got an 8" Channel Lock adjustable. Bought it specifically because it would open wide enough to thread the fittings off the boom telescope cylinder on Skytrak teles. Real PITA job.
Now don't get me wrong fellas.. an adjustable does have its place.. just not in a room full of VERY expensive delicate test equipment.. when your tool box was wheeled NEXT TO the machine.. It was a matter of "choice".. & THEN the suprise of not knowing a box end from an open end.. WOW.. I said the other day.. THIS is NOT a business.. its a halfway house for MORONS..
Very true. What might be the wrong tool in one situation might be considered the best tool for the same job in a totally different situation. Say you were in need of removing a spanner nut that was holding a bearing in place on a machine that "had to be fixed" that night. The right tool would be a spanner socket designed for just that job. But if the closest one was halfway across the country and priced at almost the same value as the gear drive you were working on then the "proper tool" might now become that air hammer with a dull chisel bit in it. Been there done that! But to have the right tool one drawer down from the wrong tool it is beyond lazy to not use the "best and proper" tool. We have all had to make do with a less than ideal tool but the difference is knowing it is not the ideal tool and adapting to it limitations not only for the equipment we are working on but our own safety.
Right tool, at the right time and you don't damage more than you fix. Told that by my Grandfather as he worked on a old 20hp Johnson he kept running for forty years.