I'm from Australia and it is very rare to see a skid steer without a four in one bucket. if its not wearing a 4in1 its got a high volume bucket or nothing like a bucket(auger driver or reclaimer) why is it that in america you hardly every have a 4in1? just wondering?
We're better operators than you guys--no need for them.
How true!
Yair . . . And you blokes are very good with shovels . . . LOL Cheers
You guys Break me up ....LMFAO !
We have one that came with with a lot of stuff that we got at auction. In the last 2 years I think it was only used for a week when they were rebuilding the primary bucket for the skid steer. I will say it makes a great pallet weight.
They are a giant pita if your doing anything other that grabbing brush and logs and moving them around. Dirt needs only a regular tooth or pain cuttin edge bucket. because of the stress they make the floor about 3x thicker than that of a regular bucket with makes then want to push a pile rather than let the pile into the bucket. You cant carry what you can in a regular bucket cause the bucket weight is 2x as much, and the bucket doesn't open as wide as a graple for moving trees and brush. So to sum it up, hard to load, can't carry much, and don't open far enough, and like tuney443 said, we just plain better at it... kinda like why american kids don't need training wheels on their bikes...
I use a 4n 1 on my Ctl 60. It's the only bucket I use. I have others but don't use them. Had it since 03 and it's just now getting a little sloppy. Can't live with out it !
I bought a S300 in 08 with a standard sand bucket which I was forever bending/tearing from pushing it too hard, every other bloke told me "Ya gotta get a 4in1, bigga, betta, stronga, bla bla bla" so I got one. yes its handy and havnt broken it since, but after a couple of years I got around to fixing and strengthening my standard bucket because i was doing alot of loading... How much nicer it is to operate with less weight on the front. I now only use my 4in1 for really heavy digging. I carry my Home made rake bucket with grab (awesome) and my standard bucket to most jobs now, which you can do just about anything with.
We use 4in1 all the time . I have a normal bucket rusting away somewhere .
how do you guys go getting a new crushed road driveway flat? i open the bucket out and then have two blades as such and then smooth away
I tried a 4n1 on a Bobcat a while back and didn't like it at all. It was heavy, capacity was less and when you went to back-drag the bottom of the bucket skipped across the ground - defeating the purpose of back-dragging.:bash I have a tyne grapple for brush, trash and demo and a tooth bucket for grading, that's all I need. Personally the last thing I want is another skid attachment with hydraulic lines and cylinders to maintain.
An old trick with a 4 n 1 is to bite onto a long creosote railroad timber or an old telephone pole to put a ''burned'' smooth finish to your country driveway.Slicker than possum sperm on a hot July day.They were going to film such in Deliverance but Burt Reynolds couldn't get a handle on operating a crawler.
most of the people who do not like 4-1,s are the ones who cant use them to there full potential its the same as how the most of europe manage without thumbs on their excavators too :tong and no they don,t bend easily
Yair . . . As some one who hires contractors unless they have a four in one on a skid or backhoe they can take it away . . . and don't turn up here with a bull-blade on a dozer either. LOL Cheers.
I have used 4 in 1 buckets many times in the past on wheel loaders and loader backhoes but haven't had the privilege to use them on skid-steers wheel's or tracks yet. It would be nice to try out and I'm sure it would make dumping into a high sided truck much easier. I know of several piling firms in the area that use them on wheeled and tracked loaders and find them quite handy as well one sewer and water renewal firm that uses them quite a bit too.
You mean they're too complicated for you.
so true....
Mmmm,spoken from the land of kings,queens,princes,princesses,the other kind of queens,yah,way too complicated. :drinkup
Thanks, resident of Dutchess County.
Only a name,NOTHING more.Remnant of the distant past,all it is.
OK guys let's move along...:cool2 Back to the topic - although I didn't care for a 4n1 on a skid steer, I would like to have one for the backhoe. I would have one for my 420D if they weren't so darn expensive. The used ones I have found run $3500-5000 and I just can't see the bucket making a return for me for the hours I charge out on the backhoe. Now if I ran up on one that was $1500 or so, I would probably buy it.
I have a 4-n-1 on my 416C backhoe. I will not buy another backhoe without it. For me, it's worth the extra cost. I do know how to use one (most people don't) but I do not have one for the skid steer. I have thought about getting one but I don't see the cost to benefit ratio being favorable yet. The way a skid steer works (hydrostatic drive-not transmission) enables the operator to clean things up well enough without the 4-n-1, IMO. I also disagree with your last statement. They do bend pretty easily. I've bent mine before. I notice that you are picking up that steel with a bucket that looks just like the Case backhoe bucket (yours looks like it might be a New Holland so, if it is, it's the same as the Case [or it might be a JCB, can't really tell]) and I had a fellow O/O, we used to share yard space, bent his Case bucket as well. In all fairness I've had an employee bend the standard bucket on my skid steer too though. That's odd. If I remember correctly the 4-n-1 bucket, with all the hydraulic valves, hoses, the mechanical linkages, levers....everything, was a $5,000 option when new (back in '97). I'm very happy I bought mine with it. On top of all the other benefits it helps to make a well balanced machine. My front end is not light like most others. It's the best balanced TLB I've ever operated, and it is equipped with an extendable dipper. IMO the key to the balance are the 4-n-1 bucket, 4x4 drive train, and be sure to have the (3) smaller chin weights (the ones that don't stick out any further than the front grill).
thats a jcb 3cx pictured and in comparison a case 4-1 is flimsy the plates are 1" thick 8x4 i do not pussy foot about with a machine and have never bent one , though i can see how abuse would though
I wish I would have gotten a 4n1 when I bought the machine in '03, it would have been paid for and during those times I wouldn't have noticed the extra payment. Just a glimpse at the used prices - http://www.machinerytrader.com/list...413&Mdltxt=420&mdlx=Contains&btnSearch=Search I haven't checked locally as 4n1's are not that popular other than muni machines. I check the gov't auctions from time to time and haven't run across a Cat one yet. My IT machine has all the hookups so all I would need is the bucket.
Yeah OK 4in1's don't have the capacity of standard, however they are great for picking up the last bit of dirt and then dumping that on top of the pile in the truck.
Yair . . . It looks like a regional thing. To me the comparison is invalid. . .its like comparing a garden fork to a spade. As I said up thread I wouldn't hire a skid unless it has a 4 in one. As far as I can see the only thing a standard bucket will do better is straight out loading . . . is that the application for a skid? To me a skid or CTK is tool for doing many jobs, why limit its capability? I think it maybe comes back to the point that some blokes don't know how to use them. They drive them like a standard bucket. Watch a bloke who understands the concept and bucket becomes an extension of his hands . . . two surfaces working the dirt, flicking, picking out a bit of root or rock interfering with the trim. I just can't see how you can get top rate with out being 4 in one equipped. Cheers. *P.S. I should add I can't run one but I hire them and know a few blokes that can.
quite a few for sale here , not badly priced either http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-CATER...on_Tools_ET&hash=item3a77a45b8a#ht_527wt_1344
I also like a 4x1 bucket, and i do not care to go back into the dark ages, they have been building 4x1 buckets well over 50 years. The only thing about a skid steer with a 4x1 is they will not open as wide as a grapple bucket to handle trash and brush, but for dirt work, clearing, they take a lot of pain away!. I have both backhoe's and wheel loader's at work with 4x1's and like said before don't want to even think what it would be like with out them.
I haven't had that issue with mine. With it all the way open and rolled back you can barely get out of the machine. It's a CE Attachments. One stout bucket.
I'll buy you a round trip ticket to Atlanta if you'll check one of those as luggage..:tong
Hey CM , did you ever get a pic of your bucket ? :wink2 Gonna start replacing edges and teeth tomorrow.
No I haven't. It's on a job I am working on, so tomorrow if my forgetful mind remembers, I'll snap a pic.
Much appreciated ! Gotta lot of cutting and welding to do and it's supposed to be 110* tomorrow ointhead. Oh what fun !
I've used 4in1 buckets on backhoes and highlifts and they are handy and I do like them. I've ran a standard bucket on my skidsteer for the past 25 years until earlier this spring I came across a Cat 4n1 bucket. I ended up selling it because I'm consistanly changing from bucket to forks to rake attachments and I got tired of hooking up and unhooking the lines. Plus as CM mentioned you have to be careful when loading and moving it around not to damage cyclinders and hoses. For demolition and clearing it just didn't work as well as a actual grapple. Plus for dirt work it didn't carry as much dirt as a standard bucket. Now one thing I did like it for as someone mention it works great for grading gravel driveways having two cutting edges. Its just what your use to and a regional thing, just like I've also wondered looking a different forums and youtube why do other countries use ditch buckets as wide as the mini to do everything, here in the states the biggest bucket you'll see a 36-48"
Interesting topic, I have been wondering the same thing myself. I have only ever used a 4in1 on skid steers, don't think I've come across one with a GP bucket. For a single machine with one attachment setup it's the only attachment I would have. I have used them for clearing, salvage clean up, demo work, dam building, drainage and lots more. It might not be the perfect attachment for all the different jobs but it gets the job done. A GP bucket would really limit the work I can do with a skid steer. IMO a GP bucket is good for digging, loading and leveling and a 4in1 is good for digging, loading, leveling, dozing, grabbing, back dragging (like a boxblade), pulling (posts, small trees, etc.) and more. Like others have said it also depends on the operator, I have seen some operators that would be better off with a GP bucket because they simply try and do to much with the 4in1 and end wasting time more than anything. Thats just my view on the topic
Very well said. I think we have all seen that kind of operator.
Got one on my 3720, handy as a pocket on a shirt. Given that your intended work a reads already reasonably level, you really only want to knock off the high spots. Reason being; is you go down to a bare dirt floor, rainwater will run in. Don't think you wand that. Start with the bucket closed. Use the teeth to break into and loosen high spots. Whatever you happen to pick up in the bucket, relocate to a low spot. When the high spots are all knocked off, open the jaws. Use either the front or back half as you see fit to finish leveling the spots you broke open with the teeth. When you're happy with that, close the jaws again. Back drag the bucket to level the dirt you dropped into the low spots. You'll end up with a rectangle that's part grass and part dirt. But at least it will be level, and hopefully keep the water out.
Though this a 6 year old post, I'll play... First bucket I got with the ASV RC-30 was the 4n1. It is handy for certain jobs, but tends to put the load further out front, a little more than a standard bucket. On a small machine, they are heavy, too. Mine only opens up to about 12-14", so it can't bite too much. I used it almost exclusively, for a year or 2, but kept buyin other attachments, everything has its place. Coupla years ago, I was usin it to dislodge a telephone pole bottom from the hole it had been in fer 50+years, busted a hinge pin, at the top, and bent the double bottom pan! it was a damn stubborn pole, anyway, gave me an excuse to buy a plasma cutter. cut it open, used all thread to pull it mostly straight, welded up the pin, and all's well enough, fer now. got a job, comin up fer it, soon, if the deal goes through...
Used mine all the time when doing septic fields....got sick & tired of shoveling the last damn bit of leftover stone in the bucket on every job. Push it in a little pile, then clam it. Ed
Well, have both. Use the 4n1 for the clamming like mentioned. Would like to be a better operator of it. But my SS is more used as a tool carrier. And grabbing a regular bucket for a quick task is better than having to run/hook hoses. I figured when I bought the used 4n1 I'd get rid of my regular bucket- sure glad I didn't.
A 4in1 is like a Swiss Army Knife and allows you do do a variety of tasks but not optimal for any one thing. The extra weight of the 4in1 is an advantage on my toothed bucket when trying to penetrate in difficult soils. It is my preferred bucket for digging and general work. For load and carry ops, I prefer my standard Low Profile bucket. I bought my used Bobcat 4in1 toothed bucket for $800, worth every penny. 4in1 buckets are rare to see in my area.
I had one for my bobcat. Wasn't a fan so I sold it. It was heavy and didn't grapple well. Tried picking up logs and brush, and it was always dropping stuff. Ended up buying a demo, and a root grapple. Much happier.
I hate not having one on a backhoe. The extra weight helps balance the machine, and makes unloading off a trailer with a breaker on it not so tipsy. I've ran skids of all types out here, and not one has had a 4 in 1. Quite honestly, when doing concrete demo, I HATED the skid because it didn't have a 4 in 1. Now in AC, we move more material without it, but ac is a specific animal. I believe the reason for no 4 in 1 here is the amount of labor. We dont send an operator without a labor. It's rare. I've seen one with a 4 in one. It was a lone operator loading a pile of trash out of a warehouse. The reason that matters is..... stupid.... and old. Supervisors and owners dont like seeing idle workers. Even if they have a traffic control paddle. Imo, loading with a 4 in 1 is faster. You dont move the pile. You make less mess. You clean up better. My guess is price is the biggest deterrent. 72" 4 in 1 is $2000-3000 more than a solid bucket. The other being, most skid steer operators aren't good operators. "That's why they are in a skid steer" would be the normal prejudice.
One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that here in Oz pretty much all skidsteers with 4n1 buckets are hired with a leveling bar. A leveling bar is usually home made from RHS, 3 or 4 bars across and 2 lugs sticking up so that it can be grabbed with the 4n1 and is a lot wider than the bucket. It's expected that if you hire a skidsteer it's 4n1 and leveling bar or the highway
I could sure see a 4 in I bucket coming in handy at times . No where close to the JD 911 backhoe attachment . We take the front bucket along with the backhoe to every job . Don't take long to swap attachments for the given task at hand . Pound for pound that little rascal will move material with anything . Almost as handy as a Leatherman Super tool 300 . https://www.leatherman.com/super-tool-300-2.html
Any pics of the leveling bar? I only have a 4n1 with a tooth bar on my CTL and would not be without it.
NrefkJYqWD8 Here you go Tags, heaps more stuff if you Google Leveling Bar.
One thing if you build your own make sure the grab lugs are inside the tracks. That's so you can lay it on the tray and park the CTL on top of it
I like it, but we dont have a 4 in 1 and just use a low pro bucket for grading. Maybe that's what the earlier comments of "we are better operators and dont need it" are about. It's what we are used to, so we do without. I've seen similar for excavators with tilt rotators.
Maybe a skid with a 4 in 1 will be the first machine I own myself.....
We have pretty good luck grading with a low pro bucket . I can see where in loose material the " Leveling Bar " would work great spreading it out even . Run what ya brung .