What do you all suggest as a safe working slope principle for working a 3 ton minidigger. The reason I ask is we have some streams to clear and they are along the side of a bank and will mean (in 95%) of cases having the digger on the lower side. What worries me is how quick I will reach the point where working with the counterweight on the lower side/dipper higher side it tips over, just how safe are they? Or better to approach the stream with the blade lower side and u/c at 90 degrees to the ditches....which will mean a lot of moving....and therefore might as well use the TLB
When working slopes, always do so with the blade on the lower side, and as much as possible level the machine with the blade.
How about running parallel to the ditch......is there much safety margin?
My experience is such that Mini excavators in that wrigh class are very unstable on slopes mainly because of their weigh distribution and narrow track width. They are deigned to operate on level surfaces and be leveled by use of the blade. Anything other than level is going to be a problem. Try it out and you will quickly learn just how far you can take it. It's not very much. Be careful...the bigger the machine and foot print the safer they get. 5 to 6 ton and up they tend have a better feel when operating as you describe....I personal think they suck if you can't get it level on the ground or with the blade you probably are going to have an issue.
I'm going to disagree with pafarmer a bit. I spend a lot of time fine grading with a mini. As long as the bucket is kept fairly low to the ground, my experience has been that I'll become uncomfortable with the way my body has to sit in the seat before I'll feel like the machine's going to tip. Raise the bucket high, especially full, and the story becomes entirely different. (Now, I do know a guy who laid one on its side, but I wasn't there to see it, so I don't know exactly what he did wrong.) As lantraxco said, you can level the machine using the blade. In a lot of spots, I'll even use the blade to tilt the machine further downhill, to get the cutting edge to the angle I'd like to be working at. There, of course, the tracks are pointed up and down the slope, so I expect the stability is better than if working with that narrow track width parallel to the slope, which agrees with what pafarmer says. That having been said, in the situation of working on the bank of a stream, I'd do as you asked, and keep the tracks pointed towards the stream, for this reason--If things get wet and slippery, you'll be a whole lot more able to climb back to more solid ground if your tracks are already pointed in the direction you want to go. If they're parallel to the stream bank, it won't take much to slide sideways down the slope, and then you'll have a messy situation.
Good points lantraxco but if he is going to use the mini to actually perform work it's pretty difficult to keep the bucket on the ground or close to it. He will be reaching over on. Slope with a full bucket and I'm here yo tell you first hand that its a really bad position to put yourself in with a mini excavator on a slope, next to a bank with a bucket full of anything more than air. They are very unstable, most certainly a tiny machine like he would be using.....certainly would lead to a very large puker factor followed by a loud bang...BR careful. I have been running equipment for close to 40 years and in my inion these mini will hurt you quicker than any 40 ton digger....
I assume you meant me, since it was me you quoted. I wouldn't want lantraxco taking the blame for my opinions. The way I look at the issue of stability is this--If it's going to tip because of a loaded bucket, it's going to tip in the direction of the loaded bucket. If the bucket is close to the ground, it's not going to tip any further than the distance between the bucket and the ground. When it does that, drag the bucket in until the tracks are sitting on the ground again. Now, if you're going to put the machine in a position where it'll tip without a loaded bucket, you shouldn't be in that position to begin with. Maybe I'm not understanding to original question sufficiently?
Sorry about that lantraxco and thanks Digger for keeping that straight. I agree with what you are saying 100 percent. I may be looking at it all wrong. I am seeing a mini sitting up on a bank that is sloped reaching over and in to scoop material up from the creek bed and out and that is about as bad a situation that one can place yourself in as I can imagine but I could have this all wrong too and more than likely do. I just don't want to see someone get hurt. Enough said from this old man. I have been doing stream reclamation for the last six months with a 314 blade runner and even that gets a little sketchy ....good luck and god bless.
My presumption was that if a mini is even under consideration the slope/bank can't be that drastic. I sure wouldn't want to put any machine in a spot where the ground underfoot could give way. Then you have about 4 years experience on me. We're not (that) old yet!
One caveat that I might add is this: You may be able to swing a loaded bucket around and dump above you, but after you dump you are in the position where you are most unbalanced, especially if you were to raise the boom high and the stick in. I believe it possible to go over backwards in this situation if tracks are across the hill.
A photo of the scene would be helpful. Whoever owns the land needs to fess up to having a dodgy property which needs to be redesigned. By an excavator. Seeing the scene would help us determine whether a 3t is suitable and if so with what technique. Most ditches I've worked flow downhill and then along rather than sidling. Once that is sorted, it will be safer and faster for future operators to do maintenance.
http://www.tigercat.com/between-the-branches/12365/ Tie it to something....something big... Seriously, I am picturing you are parallel to the stream, down in the gulley, left track is just about getting wet. Lifting "over the side" is the worst possible, you don't have that blade helping you, AND your applying to most load to the "downhill side" of the bank, trying to cave it in. Could you weld up an extension to pin on in place of the bucket ? So as to sit hi and dry up on top of the bank, far enough back ?
We have tied off excavators to a d6 and then winched it over a steep slopes doing pipeline work. No worries For the guy in theD6 running the winch....
In the picture I have attempted to draw a line in where course of one stream lies, its in over the bank highlighted with a red line in a ditch approx 3 ft deep. So of it can be approached from the other side, then other parts can't. Further up the stream I tried to work off the bank but was too close for the dipper to work effectively. Previously we have cleaned this out with a Ford 655C TLB but as you can imagine it involves a lot of forward/back to get up to the stream
Can you place your machind directly in the creek channel and work from down in the stream bed itself ? That's how me and crew have doing very similar work for the past seven months. We are in the stream working our way directly up it using 314 CAT iron.
PA.F. Its only a wee Volvo EC30 but I like your thinking on this........a part maybe possible to straddle the stream. There's another stretch further away which I have in mind of perching it on the spoil we dug out over the years, but concerned how stable it will be. I think it really comes down to experience with this job
I do agree with Pafarmer to a point, the bigger the machine the more stable. Sometimes This of course is not in every ones budget, nor is there always room for a big machine. I have run fair sized machines (20+ ton) and as small as 4000lb. I've surprised many folks with what I could do with a small machine and on how steep I would work it. With that written if there is fear(or doubt) then there is a loss of respect for what one is in the middle of. From what I can see in your pictures that slope would not bother me in the least(but pictures can play tricks on the eye). On steep slopes I do keep the blade down hill and hopefully on solid ground. The reason I wrote "hopefully" his because any of us that have run these machines know that ground will loosen especially when a bunch of digs need to happen without moving. Just keep an eye on how you've "parked" it's easy to get into the swing of things(pun intended) and not notice things slipping. The best advice I would offer is stay within "your" comfort zone. Some folks have no problem jumping out of a perfectly working airplane others will always keep one foot on the ground.
MD, Yes, I think you're right. Until I get a bit more confident with the machine I will play along safely. The ditch belongs to the family so its not like i have put myself out on hire and under pressure to do it. Hopefully i can update this thread in a few years with pics of how i finally managed to overcome it cheers RjW
Take your time. Move slowly and deliberately and above all else, make your safety the single most important aspect of the task at hand and you will be fine. You're family and mates will thank you. Cheers, Farmer
Thanks PAF, when i get to the job I will put some pics up. all the best Richard
That would be great. I would very much enjoy seeing what you have been working on. Before and after Picx are always nice....