Been wondering if I should upgrade my 92 WS to something a bit newer and nicer if prices taken a down turn which I think is coming, it's been a great year for me and i'd have no problem throwing another $80k towards a newer truck and i'd guess i'd get $20k for mine, $100k should buy something pretty nice. But I can't help but wonder if I should? The truck has never let me down, it's costing me very little to keep it on the road, I anticipate this inspection i'm going to have to rebush the rear suspension and maybe a few tires, and obviously other little things will come up, probably $3-4k and good for another year. It's amazing on fuel. Got an oil analysis done and it came back good, it does not lack power. It sucks on the jobs an hour out of town with a max speed of 55 mph and even after getting a nice new seat, it does get old sometimes how rough it rides, but it gets there. Am I asking for more problems spending that kind of money? For how much I use it, there's no way I can justify spending anymore then that. This year I will probably only put 8,000 miles on it, it's still not getting that much use. I have no interest in hiring a driver if I get a newer one so it wouldn't see anymore use then the current one. I also don't want to spend $100k on a truck that is going to cost as much or more to keep on the road either, makes no sense.
If its doing the job I'd keep it. 8,000 miles a year is nothing. Have you ever considered putting a different set of diffs and suspension under it, rather than rebushing what you have? You could pick up a used cutoff from the wreckers with a taller ratio and Neway air ride for probably $7-8k. Might make it a little more enjoyable to run down the highway in.
Buy an $80K truck and keep this one for backup.
If I had 80K burning a hole in my pocket I'd get another piece of productive iron. It sure would not be a truck when you have one that works.
With dump trucks, one is none and two is one. Check with your CPA and see if it makes sense to spend money this year vs next year.
I don't agree that one is none. I have the same vintage and power train, and have been down for shop repair once, for those broken exhaust studs. I have done a solenoid and alternator but the rest has been normal service.
That sounds like a voice of reason.
Eight thousand a year is hardly worth justifying, But if a down turn in economy happens it will be a buyers market. So run what you have for now, good deals come along when your not looking.
Take a real good pressure wash to it and look at the frame, if that frame is still good keep it. Trucks 2007 and older are way better than newer ones and once once gone chances of getting one back is smaller every day. I would spend 10-20k on a refurb over buying new every day of the week. Take it from me, a self employed guy who's been out of work for over two months because of my back, I'm fine but if I had a loan payment I'd probably would have had to sell.
I wonder how much it would help, i've driven my brothers new WS with spring suspension and it rides like a dream compared to mine, it rides better then my dads 2015 international on bags, I assumed it was because of a really good air ride cab in the WS? I've never considered dumping that much money into it that wasn't required, it's fine now but as i'm grossing 40,000kgs with my hoe and sometimes put a few tons in the box I can't afford to lose anything in the bottom end. I will see come inspection time if they are going to make me do anything to it this year, so far it's just been noting that the bushings are cracked.
I already have too much, I have my CTL up for sale because i've put a whole 40 hours on it this summer. I don't care if I sell it, it's paid for but figure if I make a few bucks i'll let it go. Virtually all my work this year has been house/garage demos so i'm just working my hoe and mini hoe. I have no interest trying to hire anyone else, it's way too much hassle.
Yea it's been a great truck. In the 3 years i've had it the worst breakdown i've had is a tranny cooler line blew as I was entering my yard, and another time the air dryer froze up. I don't have any use for 2 trucks, would just be a waste. The truck primarily makes me money by moving my hoe, I haul a decent amount of concrete with it too but at $95/hr for a tandem, no one making money running them I would let mine sit before I ran it for that kind of money.
Seems like a good route and with winter coming maybe another 4-5 weeks of work and then i'm shutting it down until february so i'm in no rush to do anything. One local excavating company is liquating a ton of iron at richie's next week and caught my attention.
There are companies that make air ride cab kits. https://www.stengelbros.net/Western-Star-Cab-Suspensions_c_669.html
The frame is great, it's only single so no rust jacking. I think the killer of this truck might be the cab rusting as it has some pretty bad spots, or rubber bushings rotting out. It's been noted on inspections that some motor mounts are rotting out, i'm only guessing that would not be cheap to rectify if they get bad enough. I would be paying cash for the upgrade, I wouldn't like it to sit a lot if things slow down but it wouldn't put me in any trouble, all my iron is paid for. I do think the truck is worth putting some extra money into making it nicer, i'm just wondering if it would help anything much. Cosmetically it's ugly, but good enough to still be presentable on a jobsite. One thing i've considered is putting new higher hinges on the tailgate so I can add higher side boards as the box isn't that deep so it would be nice to haul a bit more as 95% of my hauling is concrete so it's not heavy.
Oh that would be perfect. I gotta see if that will fit my truck.
Cash is king. You don't have to go "new". Is there any good trucks pre 07?
It only takes one good truck. If you were a fleet there is no way you could amass a bunch of good pre 07 trucks but if you are one guy then the right one might just come along, as stated, when you are not looking. That is how I got all my junk, not the fanciest but it works and pays the bills.
In terms of general condition between a typical 2007 and typical 2002 I'd go 2002 or a bit older. Get away from that EGR junk with pricey VGT turbos.
They didn't all have that junk though, in those years. Everything on a case by case basis.
Cat is the only one I can think of off hand that didn't run EGR until they put out the SDP. The '07 and older Acerts had their quirks but probably still better than the ISX with their cam problems, EGR and VGT failures and dropped liners.
If I was only going to upgrade to like an 02, I think i'd rather just keep what I have I don't think it would be much of an upgrade. I'd want something at least 2012 or newer to bother upgrading. At least here you can delete and avoid emissions. But yea maybe I can find someone who needs to unload a truck at some point I don't need to sell mine first if I buy another so I could jump on a good deal anytime.
05 Cat started with a catalytic muffler and twin turbo acert, 05 Detroit started the egr DDEC V, 05 Cummins started at the same time Detroit did with egr. But basically anything built from 05 through 2018 were problematic. The Detroit DDEC V Series 60 was a total disaster, with the use of the VPOD and VGT turbo EGR system plus trying to shove 50 psi boost through a engine designed for a max of 35 psi, blown head gaskets were very common right along with cracked radiators. So basically anything 04 and down is a decent bet, 2018 or better yet 2019 up are not too bad. A great engine for reliability is a N14 Cummins or 12.7L 1995 up Detroit series 60, those can be rated up to 500 hp and 1600 torque. Both are economical to run as far as parts go.
There are low mileage trucks out there pre-emission-but a arm and a leg. https://bend.craigslist.org/hvd/d/spokane-2001-kenworth-t800-dump-truck/7547488839.html
Saw a few of those go through Ritchie's recently and fetch like $120k crazy money.
Got thrown a bit of a curve ball, my dad said he's finally going to get rid of his truck and wondering if I should buy it. It's a 15 international with maxxforce 9, now i'd never consider buying one of these trucks otherwise because the maxxforce is complete garbage but seeing as he bought it new and I know the trucks history that counts for a bit, I already paid for it to be plumbed for a trailer on air and I did use it for a bit to pull my hoe before I got my truck so I know it did it ok. I'm guessing it's worth around $50-55k, for a few unrelated reasons it would be beneficial to me as he owes me some money that he can't pay me back without selling the truck too. Am I an idiot for considering it? It only has 130,000km, maxxforce scares me the EGR I believe it was went 3 years ago and it was just over a $20k bill when it dumped coolant into the engine, only had maybe 10-15km on it since. Other then that it's been a good truck. I would delete it immediately, and if I was going to buy get the engine checked first to make sure it's ok. It has the allision 3500 I believe and it's 330hp maxxforce 9, are those 2 up to the task of task of pulling my hoe around without blowing up? The tranny never heated up before, it was slow but it did it. I remember emailing the dealer before I did it and they told me as long as neither is overheating, it won't hurt either pulling that kind of weight as it's governed and safe to run at WOT for extended periods. Trailer is around 63,000lbs.
The only engine I've seen catch fire was a Maxx force, of course that's just anecdotal. Even with it's your dad's truck I'd stay away, newer internationals trucks are just plain junk even not considering the engine. The wiring especially in canucastan is very susceptible to damage and corrosion. I don't think there is anyone that will defend a Maxx force engine. Under the hood is just plain terrible and cramped, you have to remove guards and fenders to work on anything. I'm going off a sample size of 2, one m11, and one maxxforce, the Maxx force caught on fire out the exhaust and nearly tried to run away and then the turbos we're on fire and that's the first time I've used a fire extinguisher, and I'm 37.
If you put 20,000 into you truck I'm guessing it would be fairly nice and dependable. I'm not sure upgrading to newer isn't down grading sometimes.
Well if we won't be able to get diesel fuel, an $80 truck will end up sitting just like a brand new one.
I often wonder if the diesel fuel scare is like the toilet paper one
They said 30 days of inventory trying to scare people into thinking 30 days till we run out. As if they are not making it any more. How many days of inventory are usually in the system? Is this even out of the ordinary?
I don't know, but I severely doubt it unless there's a refinery problem that I don't know about. In the last 2 years I put on a ton of wells that were shut down +/-5 years, there should be more production of crude, so what's on the refinery end. Diesel has dropped on price in my area under $5
That's happening around here, too, and I suspect with good reason. Older iron would not be fetching the price it is without good reason .. nobody buys a dump truck to park out front of the shop and admire. Pit talk on the CB with guys who run newer trucks revolves around how long the last one was down with emissions/electronics problems.
It hasn't had wiring issues yet, but it sure does look like a clusterfawk under the hood, rubbed threw a coolant line twice already cause of poor design. Well catching on fire isn't the worse thing, at least there is insurance. But yea I think it's better if I pass on it.
True. I think i'm going to have it inspected early and assuming no major surprises discuss what will be coming up soon for repairs and where is good to put some money into it. I think the air ride cab is a must, other then that i'm not sure.
You haven't said what you are pulling with it (except for "my 'hoe"), nor have you said how the truck is equipped. I don't have much experience with Western Star. In fact, I have zero so I don't have much understanding of what your experience may be like. I can say this. The pre-emissions trucks are so expensive to buy used because they don't have the emissions, and the associate costs and headaches that come with them. I would not recommend buying into that potential nightmare. You said that you are familiar with the truck (your dad's truck), and then went on to talk about the issues that it has. Did you even hear yourself typing? I currently have (2) dumptrucks. My first is a '94 Peterbilt 377. I bought it as a tractor, had the frame extended and put a rock tub on the back. It has the wrong suspension for a dumptruck but it rides down the road very well. It does not have the air suspension on the cab but it does have Pete AirLeaf on the rears. The other truck is an '86 KW W900. It has a good suspension for a dumptruck but it rides terribly when empty. It rides on Hendricks extended leaf walking beam. The cab of the W900 is quite a bit noisier as well. That being said, I am looking at upgrading the truck instead of buying a late model truck that comes with the emissions headaches. Putting a new rock box on it and trying to make the cab more comfortable looks like the better option to me.
IMO the pre-Daimler Stars were tough to beat. I'd take a Kelowna built Western Star over a similar year Peterbilt or Kenworth without question.
I ponder the concept of a bigger truck. I'm not a full time excavator, I only use equipment occasionally. I own it mostly to move the backhoe, it does that just fine. I've probably got $20,000. invested total. When I haul gravel, I make three trips where it'd be one with a full size tandem. 70% of my excavation jobs are underground wiring. I haul sand to bed conduit & I haul away rocky soil. Often, I bring in a load of screened topsoil. Mostly, that means 7 round trips for hauling. I do average two projects a month (excavation). It's manageable for me with a $20,000. truck. A $100,000 truck would be more efficient. I'd also need more income to break even.
I was complaining once to a mechanic friend of mine about needing bigger equipment to get done faster and he did point out that I get paid by the hour. That said I can't imagine using a single axle dump in the line of work I do. I think I hauled almost 50 tandem loads of material this week besides running equipment most every day.
I worked for a builder, bought a new 1/2 ton pickup every three years. It's almost true to say his pickup was his only expense. He lived on deer meat, lived in a very small house he built 40 years ago. His hobby was work & in truth, he worked 7 days, 11 hours a day nearly every week. He was/is a wealthy man. Invested every penny he could hoard. He is now about 80 years of age. His logic is you have to show up in a new truck. If you don't, your customers doubt you. I (an electrician) have always driven a van. Only an expert can tell the year of a van. I keep my vehicles in condition. My van looks recent, even though they average 13 years old at replacement. Probably a stretch, but maybe you are being judged by the appearance of your truck?
Below is a original Star Car. This one only had when this photo was taken 4 years ago 43k on it. Sold for 20K, was originally 36K new in 1975. Real good trucks these were, only problem was parts support, zero parts now, frames were 110 grade.
It's a 210 Volvo total weight with trailer is around 65000lbs, truck has a Cat 3406B with 13 speed and walking beam suspension. It's not short on power or anything. A few times i've even threw a few tons in the box or haul extra attachments and i'm around 100,000lbs and it handles it no problem. The cab is far from great, it's definitely the more basic for that timeframe also lacks extra things like EGT, etc for gauges. If I found a good deal on a box i'd go for it, 95% of my hauling is concrete and the floor is pretty beat and the overall size is a bit small, an extra few yards capacity would be nice. My dads truck has had some issues for sure, but most were emissions related, if deleted it wouldn't be as bad.
Understood. In my opinion the 3406 is a phenomenal engine, and the 13 spd is pretty good for heavy loads, especially if the rear diff ratio has you max out at 55 (is that MPH or KPH?). The walking beam is a rough ride but works well in off-road situations, and is tough as nails. Re- bushing is easily accomplished (many specialized service providers that will come to you to perform this) so I don't see that as a very good excuse to unload the truck. I would attempt to install a cab air ride system before bailing on the truck. If you still can't deal with the ride then I (myself) would still look for a pre- emissions ride. If you have time to work on your own stuff, upgrades (like a pyrometer to register EGTs) is not difficult. A new seat (with heat/cool, vibration for your sore back, etc) can also be installed relatively easily and inexpensively. If there is a ton of cab noise, there are ways to seal off, and insulate the cab to increase the comfort level. As far as your comments on your dads truck, yes, you can eliminate the emissions but you are still left with a 12 year old truck (an International no less) with a maxforce engine. I have no experience with one but you, and other posters, have not indicated much, or any, praise for this engine. Really, it comes down to the suspension, and comfort level on your dad's truck. Another poster mentioned a rear end "take- out", with a different suspension and gear ratios, as an option. I know that it would add expense and time but you still have the truck you know, the engine and trans that you like, and no emissions. Somebody else mentioned putting $20k into the truck to bring it up to what you want. I think that would be the better option than buying your dad's truck and you'd still be $60k ahead. The only possible downside is if you decide to sell it (after you drop the $20k into it), you may not get your money back out of it. That's hard to say if that's the case, or not. After all, you would be selling a pre- emissions truck! As it relates to the rock box that I mentioned, I was looking at buying new. There are not a lot of "deals" out there right now as construction has been BOOMING in the western US for some time now. That being said, I was quoted a brand new 16' Western bed (fully AR 450, dual acting hi- lift, spreader, apron, cab guard, full length fenders, electric tarp, air gate latches, hoist, and mounted to a sub frame, for +/- $22k (US). This sounds like a lot but I paid $17k for a 15' 23 years ago (that was mounted, cab painted, and included the buck plate/hitch as well).
The showing up in a new truck used to be a thing, now tons of trucks are old and nobody cares. I show up in a 1965 and people are glad to see me because, one I do show up, and two people pay for your experience.
I have a 1989 and it had a good paint job, people thought it was real nice. Now the paint has faded and gotten grimy somewhat, might want to refresh the paint job, but the trouble now (and then) is finding anyone to do it.
Had to borrow the international because my truck is down, and man i'm having a hard time not wanting to upgrade now. I forgot how much nicer it is to drive, and being an hour out of town job it was a lot of driving. It's just SO much nicer on the highway then mine, there is no amount of money I could put into mine to make it anywhere close. I know the international is garbage, but I am really struggling not to pull the trigger on it and gamble it will be ok. However holy crap does it ever suck back the fuel! According to GPS I drove 100 miles pulling hoe, and 25 miles unloaded and I put in 44 gallons at the start, can't be more then 10 of it left and that's generous, I bet mine gets nearly double the mileage. I am also sour with mine right now because of the BS of working on it this week though.
What would be the price and is there any in the area for sale that you know the price of?
Ritchie's prices are all over but i'd guess it's worth around $50k maybe a bit less. I would think i'd get around $20k for mine, so it's not that much more money. If it costs the same to keep it on the road as mine i'm fine with that, it's worth it for the comfort.