Looking at a new job coming up it has over 1,000,000 yards to move out of this hole thats 100' deep with 2 to 1 slopes funneling down to it along with a access ramp that has about 11 degrees slope (new underground mine) only a couple of months to get it done. Any thoughts or suggestions on the cheapest way to do this on time.
a big drill, a fuel truck, and some fertilizer... On a more serious note, do you have to dig this 100' hole, or do you have to make the hole deeper? The say for short distances, dozers are the cheepest, followed by scrapers, then trucks and excavators, but I'm not sure how slopes play into that. Has their been core bores, or soil samples done to see how much rock is there?
I am not into moving a lot of dirt but I think one needs to know more details. Like ware are you going to put the dirt? What is it? rock? mud? muskeg? sand? What are the weather conditions? How much equipment/manpower do you have? What is your budget? Now I will backout and let the professionals answer your questions.
Dwan nailed it; a bit more info is needed to really pinpoint the best method to move this particular million yards of dirt. - What type of material is it? - What does the boring log show for material transitions/types over the profile of the cut? - Dewatering? (I doubt it because it’s a mine entrance, but you can never assume) - What is the haul distance? - What is the material being used for? Compacted fill? Stockpile? - What is the average amount of precipitation during the month and at the location where the material is to be moved? - Is there topsoil to strip? - Will the 2:1 slopes require a layer of topsoil spread over them? - It sounds like you’re looking at bidding the project, so who are you likely to be bidding against? - If they’re contractors with their own fleets of earthmoving machines, what do they have for this work and what do their recent bids show them moving material at? (Cost per CY) - If the finish grading tolerances on the project are tight, than it's relevant if your competitors utilize GPS systems on their machines or not? - It sounds like you’re going to rent whatever equipment is best suited for the project? Or are you wanting to use equipment already in your existing fleet? - Is there a bonus if you finish the project ahead of schedule? Are there fines if you finish behind schedule? Answer those questions and it’ll be easier to prescribe the best method(s) to move this particular million yards of material.
I will add that the only thing we know, almost, is that it needs done "...in a couple of months..." That would suggest that whatever method is picked, you need to be geared up to move 20 to 25 thousand CY per day, or 10 to 12 thousand per day, and work double shifts. Answer Mass-X's questions, and then you can start to narrow down the rest of it.
git a big honkin' vac truck.
How ever you decide to do it, if you need some help let me know. I can start anytime. Heath
A conveyer system?
what?? are you serious?? Deas, u wanna take this one??
Walsh has 2 miles of conveyer workin an overburden job in Hogkins, Il. My father ran one of 2 Hitachi 1200's on the site. Short story, 2 Hoes, 1/2 dozen ADTs, couple dozers and the belt. Dig 60 to 80 feet of spoil, some clay had to be ripped w/D10, load adts, haul less than1/8 mile,dump at conveyer head, 345 picks out boulders and then 2 miles belt ride over an interstate,a canal and several RRs to spoil site. This was 2 years ago Dad was there, mighta changed since. Long term project and something like 15million yds. Another job near here sounds the same as fiat41s. That contractor used the same sorta spread minus the cross country conveyor and the hole was for an underground mine in So.Elgin. 1.5mil.yds.
Articulated haul trucks work nicely. The Volvo A35's or A40's hauling with a good sized hoe loading or if you can get a big loader or 2 being fed by some dozers than you can get some material moved in short order. A million yards is a good amount of material, especially if it needs to be hauled uphill, out of a hole. When it's gone, the hole will be much larger. If it is softer material, I am thinking scrapers might be the way. Working on the slope, for those that have been there also, know the the B70 can haul some stuff too. AIC has been known to move a million yards in a little over a month with them. Again, as mentioned previously, it depends on the material and a budget.
For a change......................... Hi, Biggixxerjim. For a change, the lad may ackshully have a point. With that 11 degree access ramp, depending on width, etc., there may just be room to set up a conveyor and a decent conveyor system on that incline would be a good bit more efficient than haul units. Most haul units don't really like grades steeper than about 10% to be able to remain close to peak efficiency. There are other variables like how much floor space there will be at the bottom, what machines are feeding the conveyor, the particle size of the material being conveyed, what machines/methods are used to dispose of the material at the discharge end, availability of a power supply for the conveyor system, etc.. How-wevver, given that all these factors are favourable, a conveyor system could very well work in that situation. Particle size might be THE 'biggie' in any equation involving a conveyor. They just ain't too partial to big lumps 'cos they tend to become unstable on a moving belt on much of a grade. They LIKE smaller particles, like crushed materials, stuff that will mound up on the belt in a fairly uniform stream and not move around on the belt. Taking a crusher down in stages to the bottom of a 100 foot deep hole to keep a conveyor supplied with material that it can handle might be a bit of a strain on the hip pocket for a job like that. If the material comes out as stuff that a conveyor could live with, then that might be the way to go. Maybe I should have typed this in a 'whisper'. After all, we don't want a certain person to get all big-headed 'cos he might just be right for a change.
I was thinking along the same lines that some of you have expressed, but had a thought. Wouldn't renting one of those tracked portable crushers work well to feed the conveyor system? You should be able move one of the tracked units around easily, and feed it directly with the loading tool of your choice....I'd pick an excavator myself. Personally, I'd look at only running the conveyor to the top of the hill, then running a mobile haul unit from there. Not knowing haul distance, or what has to be done at the far end to dispose of, or place the material, kind of handicaps us to make a decision as to what kind of haul unit to use. Brian
I'm not sure what for different crushers are available but I took the largerst that komatsu has on their web site a BR580JG-1 and ran some numbers. With a 200mm crusher discharge setting, output is estimated at 309- 441 ton per hour. And I'm assuming that the stone weights 1.25 ton per yard. 400 tons / 1.25 ton per yard = 320 yard per hour. 320 x 24 hours per day = 7,680. 7680 cu yard per day x 30 days in a month = 230,400 cu yard per month. And thats assuming no down time for screen repair or rainy days.... Now if you calculated that as tight yards, that needs to grow by at least 30% maybe more depending on stone type. I dunno if the tracked crushers that komatsu makes are the mini's of the market or not, but you have alot of material to move. Now figguring it out the other way, 1 mil times .33 for expansion is 1.33 mil. 1.3 mil divided by 18 working days is 72,222. Thats yards per day needed. divide that by 10 for hourly production is 7,222 yards per hour. Multiply that times 1.25 for yard to ton conversion and you have 9,027 tons to move per hour on a 10 hour day, and an 18 day month, to move a million yards of rock in a month. Your rock might expand more than 33% when you shoot it. And it might be 1 ton per yard or 1.5 ton per yard. And There might be more variables that I didnt account for.
The use of a conveyor system to move a million yards of dirt would require a lot of limiting circumstances on other material movement methods for it to be feasible or profitable for this kind of project. As wormkiller posted, the reason for the success on the mass movement with a belt on the project he talked about was, “2 miles belt ride over an interstate,a canal and several RRs to spoil site.” Had there not have been those obstacles to get over, than trucks or scrapers would have been the better choice. If the material is rocky, it will require crushing or you’re going to destroy a conveyor system (belts and rollers). Like Deas said, you need a small sized material for a conveyor to work well, which would require crushing if dealing with rock, and it’s very unlikely crushing would be profitable. Especially considering the size of crusher required to process a million yards of material in “a couple months.” One other thing to keep in mind on mobile tracked crushers is that to reach the peak material processing numbers advertised, they need to be fed a very uniform and evenly sized material. Most of the demo numbers come from feeding those crushers a 6-8” minus cobbly material. Start feeding them shot rock and you’re going to have jams and the operator running the loading machine will need to feed the crusher slowly to prevent binding it up or straining the jaw (which greatly increases maintenance/downtime). Not to mention the need for a hammer or grinder to reduce all oversized material to be compatible for the crusher. All of this is going to kill production numbers and profitability and prevent a million yards of material from being moved in a short time frame. A project like this is going to be end up needing off-road trucks or scrapers depending on the material and haul distance. I would just figure the bid to include the movement of an extra 50,000-75,000 CY to lay the 11 degree slope down to something more manageable for whatever machines are used to move the material. If you’re lucky, the mine owner may foot some of the bill of increasing the accessibility of the hole. If not, just short cycle the material out of the way to the top of the slope in a stockpile and at the end of the project move it back down in with scrapers or dozers.
Hello everyone, I just returned back home been at the flattrack races over this weekend. Anyway I should be getting all the plans and bore logs soon. There will be approximately 40 acres to strip and the topsoil will be stockpiles for future use. The pit or hole will take up around 11 acres inside of the 40 that has to be stripped and the fill or spoil will be stockpiled in the left over acres around the hole so 11 acres 2 to 1 slope funneling down 120' with a 11 degree slope which is where the mine will cut the remaining slope down to the coal this will also be where the mine belt brings the coal to the top also known as slope mine instead as an elevator entrance.
If using haul trucks, Why could you not bench the fill for a bulk of the material, sloping down as you go, with a semi spiral haul route? Dig in your 2/1 slope as you go and tune it up with a dozer in the end. I am not sure of the hole configuration, Round, Square, or just a surveyed area. Whatever it is, I think you could dig it down to grade, leaving an exit route, Via a "Sidehill". Then at the end you have only an access road to remove. Which could later be dozed downhill to finish off the slope below it. Just a thought, and good luck.
Yeah, I don't know much about crushers, but thought the idea might work. I really had no idea what the throughput of one of those machines is. Brian
Crushers do work good for feeding conveyors, especially if you have a "Surge" bin. But if your starting at the top and going deep, the belt Idea dont sound like it would work to well to me, but I could be mistaken. If you started and stayed at one elevation and conveyor length, it would be much different than moving it constantly as you went. Bid high!