We have three 12H graders all close to same year model. All seem to have a hard time starting in temps in the 20s or lower. The graders crank but wont start. We made sure the intake heaters are working. If we keep them in the building the night before they will start fine the next day.when they are left at job site and temps get real cold it takes a lot of cranking before it even attempts to start. Is this a common problem and does any one have any suggestions of what i can check or look into? Any help would be appreciated. I know thats not a lot of info to go off of. Im more of a maintenance parts changing type so dont really know a lot of specs. Also our graders do not have block heater so that might sum it all up. thanks in advance.
Do they sound as though they are cranking over fast enough at really low temps, or is there a difference in cranking speed between the (warm) shop and when it's really cold outside? What grade of engine oil do they have in them? Do you have any Serial Number details? Even the prefix would be good.
They crank the same speed it just takes forever when it is cold. A lot of times it will drain the batteries down before it starts. we usually have to jump them to recharge it might start on the second charge. We use 15/40 oil. I can get the numbers tomorrow.
Do the H's not have the optional hydraulic pump disengage pedal like the G's I have seen on some machines? It makes a lot of difference in starting in cold weather.
For temps down that low I would use 10W30. Need the Serial # prefix to see whether or not there is a cold weather starting package available for that model.
You should be using a lighter oil such as 10w30 or 0w40. The other option is block heaters. How did you test your intake heater?
Hydraulic dump valve? I don't know if the H's have them or not.
Two of the graders we had to change the intake heater solenoid. Now you can feel the elbow at the heater getting warm. we also tested voltage and continuity. The dealer gave us a couple of steps to test it and all steps passed.
The weight of the hydraulic oil is just as important as the engine oil.
SER CBK00256 year 2004 i have a pin# to if needed. Not sure what the pin# is for?
What you have given is fine. Let me have a look and I'll post anything interesting that I come up with.
What kind of fuel are you using and have you tried "cetane boost"? Elevation?
Thanks
Its the dyed desiel. I'm not sure what cetane boost is and elevation is not bad its in Arkansas.
Is it out of a tank that you bought last September, or fresh "winterized". Cetane boost is part of the additives or something like acetone added to the fuel.
It is new fuel we buy twice a month. I looked up the cetane booster that is something I will mention to my boss thanks
It is new fuel we buy fuel twice a month. I looked up cetane booster and I'm going to mention that to my boss. thanks.
Have you looked at the oil grade plug? Machine Engines: •C-9 Oil Grade Plug The oil grade plug is connected to the engine wiring harness. The oil grade plug is used to inform the ECM of the grade of oil that is being used in the engine. The Oil Grade Plugs are used on the C-9 engine to enhance start-up in cold weather conditions. When changing oil grades, the operator must ensure that the corresponding plug is inserted into the wiring harness. The oil grade plugs can be recognized by either the identification tags or by the color of the wires. For the location of the oil grade plug, refer to Operation and Maintenance Manual , "Sensor and Electrical Components". The following plugs are used to inform the ECM when a particular grade of oil is being used. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Illustration 1 g00852969 Oil grade plugs being shipped with the engine. (1) Identification tag for 10W30 oil grade plug (2) Identification tag for 15W40 oil grade plug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Illustration 2 g00852892 214-7170 Repair Kit (3) 10W30 oil grade plug (Green wire) (4) 15W40 oil grade plug (Red wire) (5) 0W20 oil grade plug (Black wire) 10W30 and 15W40 oil grade plugs are shipped with the engine. The 0W20 oil grade plug can be ordered from the parts manual. Order the 214-7170 Repair Kit. The 0W20 oil grade plug can be made from a 175-3700 Connector Repair Kit. Refer to the Electrical Schematic or refer to Table 1 for the proper pin locations. Table 1 OIL GRADE PLUGS (214-7170) Plug Oil Grade Wire Color Pin Connections 3 10W30 Green B-C 4 15W40 Red A-C 5 0W20 Black A-B-C Note: The engine software is designed to use 10W-X, 15W-X, and 0W-X multiviscosity oil. Cold Performance problems may occur with straight 30W. Straight 10W oil may cause bearing damage at operating temperatures. 5W30 oil may be used in certain ambient temperatures, but 5W30 oil is not compatible with the software of C-9 engines. Note: When using the C-9 oil grade plugs, use the first weight number to determine the correct oil grade plug. Use the 10W30 oil grade plug for 10W30 or 10W40 oil. Use the 10W30 oil grade plug for 5W30 and 5W40 oil. Use the 15W40 oil grade plug for straight 30W oil.
I have not checked the oil grade plug but i will now. Thanks
Are you at any significant altitude above sea level..? That could affect things. Also when the engine is cranking in cold temperatures do you get any smoke whatsoever out of the chimney, or does the engine only start smoking right before it fires up..? The standard batteries can be replaced by optional larger size batteries with significantly large cold cranking capability. The optional batteries are bigger insize physically than standard. Check in your battery box to see if the batteries that are in there right now completely fill the box or if it will accept larger size batteries. It may mean having to replace the battery box. I'd also recommend installing auxiliary start receptacles on the equipment so that you don't have to use croc-style jumper cables. We have them on all our equipment. With a plug-in cable jumping one machine to another is easy.
It only starts to smoke right before it starts
Ok, that means the HEUI system isnt coming out to play. Off the top of my head I would say your problem is a low cranking speed. Until sufficient oil pressure is generated in the hydraulic system the electronics stay deactivated which is why no smoke comes out of the chimney.........,.
We are going to change batteries they are two years old on two of the graders but one grader the batteries are about Six months old. We use 10 weight oil in the hydraulics. would you suggest different oil? We really only struggle with this problem about 10 days or so during the winter but it is a real pain those few days.
10W oil should be fine for the hydraulics. I would not suggest going any lower on viscosity than that. However I would suggest going lower on engine oil viscosity. 15W40 is really only good for starting down to about 15DegF, 10W30 goes down to 0 DegF, 5W/30 or 5W/40 down to -22 DegF, and 0W40 down to -40 DegF. Remember to change the oil grade plug if you change oil. If you want a complete copy (with photos) of the document that Mobiltech posted above send me a PM with your e-mail address and I'll gladly send you a copy. You never answered my question about altitude above sea level. It could be a factor. Personally I would get the auxiliary start receptacles installed on them so you can boost them externally by simply plugging in another machine or an external battery cart. For a simple way of explaining the way your injection system works on that engine you have to understand the difference between "Desired Injection Actuation Pressure" and "Actual Injection Actuation Pressure". Desired is calculated by the electronics, Actual is what the pressure sensor downstream of the HEUI pump measures. When you are cranking the engine cold the Actual pressure has to rise to the Desired pressure before the electronic system will activate the fuel injectors. That's why you get no smoke out of the chimney until just before the engine actually fires up, up to that point the electronics were disabled. When the ambient temperature is really cold the efficiency of your batteries falls and that plus parasitic loads from the engine oil, hydraulic pump, etc, cause the starter to turn a tad slower than normal. Actual pressure rises very slowly therefore it takes longer to fire up. Do the graders have Cat or aftermarket batteries in them..? Although they are more expensive I've never found a better battery than Cat ones. Whatever battery you buy needs to be rated at a minimum of 1150 CCA if you want to really spin the starter motor when it's cold outside.
He's in Arkansas so the elevation is probably below 1,000'. I'm of the opinion that a diesel in good shape should start down to 0 without any starting aid, maybe the intake heater isn't helping because by the time the engine gets fuel it's already blown the warm air out? Ever try cranking for ten seconds, let the heater heat back up then crank again? I'd put block heaters in before I'd replace batteries that new. 20 is not that cold for batteries or thick oil for that matter, but a warm engine makes a huge difference in letting it spin faster.
It's a HEUI engine and when the ambient temperature is cold it's all about engine cranking speed to get the oil pressure in the injection system up to a point where the electronics decide to come out and play. Hence my comments about engine oil viscosity, battery condition, and battery cold cranking capacity in no particular order. A block heater would be an option but if the OP is saying they only see the problem approx 10 days a year personally I'd go for the auxiliary start receptacles in order to boost engine cranking speed.