Looks like we'll need another grader shortly so I've been looking around and found a 140H with only 3500 hrs on it. Teir two models with similar hours are around 70-80k dearer. Is it worth paying that much more for the upgraded model and more importantly, will it earn me any more money than the earlier series or even our trusty 12G ? Cheers, Greg
the "H2" is quite differant to the 140H the new engine puts out more power and back when they came out we ran them side by side and they used to out perform the older H's IMO the 140H is a better machine from a mechanic's point of view and if you have a fleet of H's or G's alot of the parts are interchangable, the140H's we ran were ultra reliable with most of them never having a major issue (even still had the original batteries in up until 7000hrs) we did keep a good service routine on them though the first (and only) 140HII we ran had heaps of issues, almost as many as the 140M's hardest thing would be to find a low hour good condition 140H as they are getting abit old now, but IMO it sounds as if you on a winner with the one you found 70-80k is alot more to pay for the teir2 and if i were to buy a grader I'd be going for a 140H (even over a 140M)
If you have found an "H" and have not jumped on it already, I would not wait, as it will be sold soon. I am of the opinion that the H blade will be remembered as trhe best ever.
yeah i agree with the other blokes mate go for the H model sold a lot of the 140H never had a single complaint got mates with the newer M models and they want to go back to the H models.
Now the truth is told around here on the POS CAT M Series. I'm waiting for the day when the old control pattern and steering wheel are again offered by CAT. Or the customer base walks.
Unfortunately,the machine has already been sold. Turns out it is being imported from the US and isn't even in the country yet. We are working two hours away from the nearest "qualified" diesel fitter and four hours from the nearest CAT dealer, so reliability means much more to us than a modest gain in performance. There are still a few H's around with less than 10,000 hrs, so we'll probably still go that way. Cheers, Greg
Say what you will about the H models, the CAT G motor grader design was as good as it gets and will never be equaled for sheer functionality. The G was a classic case of form following function. Truly a state-of-the art machine that will transcend time. The H could have been skipped. And the M is all about engineers allowed to run loose with joy stick gaming and computer assisted design fantasies.
I hear what you're saying and agree 100%, we'll still be keeping our G as well, but they are getting a little long in the tooth for the work we will be doing. Cheers,Greg
Stuff this fella's let's just go back to horse and cart days... Maybe bring back some steam powered machines as well. Honestly we all need to get with the times, If you want work on large scale construction jobs you need the latest equipment most of the time. Now there are a few exceptions out there where I still see the old G's on some jobs around here but not too many. Also if you want to find and hold onto good operators you need the latest gear.
I spent about 3,000 hours in an early 140G (1974), 16,000 in a 1984 140G, 14,500 in a 1997 143H, and now 3,500 in a 140M AWD, and with other short term or demo machines from other manufacturers. Going from an old mechanical control machine to the first 140G was a huge step in the right direction. The '84 had a nicer cab with better visibility out the larger side windows, VHP, improved circle and moldboard wear items, and solenoid controlled blade and dozer float. Both great machines, and top of the line, for their time. The controls on the H-series seemed to move with less effort, built-in floats, more cab improvements, and new 8F-6R solenoid shifted transmission. All of our operators thought the H was an improved or refined machine, compared to the G series. Now comes the fun part. We will be taking delivery of our third M-series within the next few weeks. An M2 w/AWD, and the operator is really looking forward to it. He has demo'd the machine, and seems to like it. He has many thousands of hours in mechanical, G's, and H's, and isn't afraid of the new controls. There has never been a machine built, that couldn't be improved. None of them are perfect, and they never will be. I still enjoy jumping into G's and H's, but now, the M is my favorite. If you don't like it, then hopefully you won't be forced into operating one. Be happy operating what you like, do a good job with it, and nobody should criticize you, your machine, or your work. smoothoperator...my opinion, worth every penny.
f you had all three, a G, H and M, and they were equally worn out, which one would be the best investment to go through CAT REMAN? The E and F models are eliminated, don't even try to go there
Very good question. I think it might depend on what your future plans were for the machine. If there is a fleet manager out there somewhere who crunches numbers on these things, he would have the best answer on what might be the "best investment". A "like new" G or H should run another 15-20,000 hours, and I don't know if I have that many hours left in me! I have typed and erased ten sentences here, and the easiest and best answer I can think of is "Whichever one you prefer". smoothoperator
H but I'm a little biased IMO they were the last in the line of the grader evolution, the H2 went backwards in some areas forward in some and while the M has alot of good points it takes afew models and years of hours operating to evolve a concept into a good machine, mechanically the M is a whole new machine where as the G H and even H2 are basicly the same design with small improvements and upgrades
In a few years time we'll be looking back at the M Series and asking ourselves what all the fuss was about..... hopefully though I shall be retired by then ....
i learned on a 1973 120 straight frame then moved up to a 1980 140G ran that for 2 yrs then got in to an 1997 140H with VHP now im running a 140M AWD series 2 and i love it it took me about a month to get used to it but now im on to it i work fo the local townships who own there own machine and ive plowed snow with the m done steep slope work and have no trouble at all to me there a good machine i will admit its a huge change in machinces but you just got to acept that change
The point has been made that the M Series blade, absent total GPS machine control including steering function, lacks the inherent ability for finite control in critical applications found in all previous CAT motor graders. Volvo may have already smelled smoke blowing on an ill wind, and is promoting it's graders as having "industry standard controls". Scroll down to page 8 for a shot of the Volvo control bank, and otherwise enjoy this Volvo PDF full of graders bearing a strong semblance to the Champion bloodline: http://www.volvoce.com/SiteCollecti...G930B-G960B Motor Grader Product Brochure.pdf I think perhaps CAT has dealt itself a bad hand overall with the radical design of the M Series. Time will tell.
Go into the Messenger system and set the implement controls from "normal" to "fine" and it doesn't .........
I was never properly acquainted with the M Series, which CAT should have covered when it demoed an M five years ago while I was working for the local parish (county) road barn. Things might have worked out different between us. As a result, I find myself constantly looking now at women from other countries for satisfction, namely Sweden (Volvo) and Italy (Fiat/Case) and even a few one night stands from China. As it does not look like I will be seeing one close up anytime soon, I will probably remain just another gaseous old guy raging against the machine. Nige makes a good point. If you are going to run this new stuff, especially the GPS equipment, you must be computer literate enough to do the relatively simple onboard computer programming that comes with the whole package. Last contractor I worked for had all the know how vested in one guy, and he really didn't get it. That eventually led to him being fired. Last I heard, the company was back to cutting grade with bluetops and a stringline and a ruler. Not exactly what the M is about.
Let me suggest - a bit tongue in cheek I admit - that all this information is in the Operation & Maintenance Manual in the pocket behind the seat. How many operators actually read it, well that's the question ............... In one upgrade on the M series last year the program actually involved removing the existing O&MM and replacing it with a completely new one, so obviously Cat takes the subject of information dissemination to operators and maintenance personnel seriously. I know that personally when I get the chance to get my hands on something new the first thing I do is go looking in the manuals for any information that might be useful down the road. The other thing is to remember that you never stop learning. I found out something about the operation of the automatic retarding system on the bigger Cat mining trucks this week that I never knew before.
I'll add to that Nige......How many operators manuals are actually still in the pocket behind the seat? My experience shows that they tend to grow legs rather quickly, and never find their way home. On another note, those who are against the M series, but are looking for a larger grader might want to watch John Deere at MinExpo this year......so I have been told. Now if somebody would only make a machine in the 24 size class to compete with the Ms. We have 7 24Hs, and 7 24Ms. Yesterday, all the Hs were running, and 5 of the Ms were broke down.
Hi BTM I agree the 140G was and probably still is a very dependable machine and didn't have all the computer stuff to mess up. I put 18500 hrs. on my 1991 model and had a lot less trouble with it than the 140M that I ran until about a month ago. I put 4500 hrs on the 2008 M until my rotor cuffs started to mess up. I think it was the armrests mounted directly to the floor but the seat was an air ride so your arms would jam into your shoulder socket on every bump. I'm running a JD770 now and the shoulder is starting to heal. So much for joystick steering and snow plowing. Is anyone else having rotor cuff problems on the M's