This is a Job that i have been working on now. Its an 8 million dollar industrial park road that was cut in through the woods in Attleboro MA. The city decided at the end of the project to Run a 16 Inch water main to the project. so my crew came in to run up the street 1000 feet while another crew ran about 2500 feet on site. we have had rock and ground water the entire way. For Equipment we Have a 345BL 235C with hammer 315CL with allied hopac and 2 foot bucket an M316 and 938G loader. 1 ten wheeler and 1dump trailer.
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How deep do you need to bury your water mains up there? Around here it's usually in the neighborhood of 4'.
they are supposed to be 5 feet t to the top of the pipe
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Are the trucks "Hacks " or you're own companys?
They are ours everything on the job belongs to us it is easier that way
That Name is terrible familiar but a good one,in Gaelic it is " Breathnach" ( breth-knock)
There is Walsh Waste and Walsh Crane hire in Gallway
post 5 picture 4...........where's the trench box lol. nice looking equipment and a bunch of it that's for sure Pj
That is kind of what I was thinking. Not trying to tell someone what to do but that is scary.
You can not call trench conditions from pictures, if they are using a pentrometer and the trench is all right what is the problem. Is there a compenant trained trench person on the job ? that is his call and the companies call, and most important nobody made them guys go in the hole ! I woud post pictures of my work but all the comments about saftey are un called for. I am the 3rd generation underground contractor, knock on wood nobody has been killed or injured from 1927. Nothing would ever get done anywere or in any trade if everyone of OSHA's were followed, think about it we would not even have the swine flu ! I am not bashing anyone here just think about what is said. Nice pictures I enjoyed the story. ps, if you are driving down the road and you wave someone by they are hit , YOU are responsable for that wreck ! digger
It would be our company recommendation when working on a road with live traffic and at depth in excess of 1.2m (4') a trench box be used the only exception to this recommendation would be when the breaker is employed all the time due to rock.
This is the same here, but if your read OSHA regulations, if the trench has any water in it, it becomes a class C ditch, even if it is in solid rock. Class C ditch requires a trench box.
As yet we are not bound by OSHA because we are on the wrong side of the pond,but none the less we do have a raft of rules and regulations to adhere to,below is a brief outline ,a type of code of practice, you might say Code of practice
Lose the attitude, all I was pointing out is that nobody fallow's all the rules all the time. and I am not going to get into the law's but Yeah, the company would be responsible if somthing were to happen to a hand in the hole, Pj
No attitude here, I all I was saying someone posts a picture of the work they are doing someone brings up saftey issue's. I should have asked if the air pressure was correct on the mack truck tires. PJ in my truck I drive to the job everyday is a confined space air monitor, a harness and everything to go with it my company saftey policy with toolbox talks, done every week, that everyone signs when they come to work for me. Also is a pocket pentrometer that is used at least 2 times a day and the readings are recorded on the daily report, me and another guy on the crew is a compentant trench person. I can list the rest of my safety policy but I think you can see safety is something we take very serious. I have been through safety checks with my 1987 C 70 dump truck with a Trailking trailer and did not get a ticket. So I think you can understand were I am coming from on my safety and everyone around me. The guy and everyone else on this site and other sites that have posted pictures was proud of them, you can say nice pictures, like the hoe, nice truck, ect. not bash the saftey issues. I have been coming to this site for along time and dont say a whole lot because of things like what was posted, I have no problem keeping my opinion to myself, having been doing underground work for over 30 years, grew up with some of the legend's of the construction industry. I have learned a few things and I could help some others on this site but I will continue to keep my knowledge to myself at least not post it here. Dan
I hope this is settled now, as I don't think this is the track John1066 wanted the thread he started to go.
I do hope that no one misconstrued any of my posts of having attitude,I merely pointed out that there is in excess of 5000miles (8000km) of water between Osha and me (like to keep it that way )and duly posted a link showing our code of practice which may make someone's life a little easier,but don't expect me to throw out my toys in temper.
I brought up the ditch with no trench box, because when I was a labor on a water+sewer crew I almost got killed in a ditch accident. So it something that I really look at closely. Understand?
82 years of business nobody killed, no lost limbs and the underground business has changed so much I think that is a good track record. I am glad to see you concerned about the trench. Some of my friends have been killed in the hole over saving a slab of sidewalk or to lazy to put a box in the hole. Some of my best footage days have been pulling a box to save the overdig. Just tired of OSHA. Turbo took his daughter by the job site to snap a few pictures with her in the bucket of the min exc. the saftey was brought up. I think safety is on everyone's mind on this site. Dan
That is why I don't understand why some foreman's don't like to put in the trench box. It sometimes seems that it was easier to dig and backfill, not the overdig like you said.
I don't know that I can agree with that. If something provides a jumping off point for a good discussion, I think we all benefit. Of course, we all have to work at being non-judgemental, and keeping our criticism constructive. I agree. I think our "corporate culture" if you will, here at HEF is one of safety. That having been said, it's easy for us cause this site exists to spread information around, and we don't need to worry about how many feet of pipe we have in the ground at the end of the day. Real world pressures are a horse of a different color, and what we discuss here as ideal....well honestly, in the field any of us might find it expedient to make some compromises. Now there's something that's recently been touched upon in Stock's thread about OSHA. Is there pressure on any given job to work in violation of the lawful standard? It would probably make a good topic of its own. For what it's worth, when I took the competent person class, my take on it was that, rather than being a class on how to be safe, it was pretty much a class in all the ways your site is out of compliance now, and never really will be fully in compliance. My take is that certainly, if your site is fully in compliance, it will be a safe site, but that's not due to the fact that any violation makes a site un safe. Good example, no? In an ideal world, we wouldn't even need an OSHA, because every employer would do the maximum possible to prevent workplace injuries. In a world where the workers are more expendable than the shovels they carry, we'd have lots of funerals. (And if you think about it, that world existed in our not so distant past.) Somewhere between those two worlds there exists a compromise where the risks are managed, and everybody goes home safe at the end of the day, while the company still turns a profit. Where that compromise lies is the place that engenders discussions like this one. There's the old expression about, "you talk the talk, but do you walk the walk?", meaning do you actually practice something, or just pay it lipservice? Certainly, to practice safe working habits is best, but if you discount their necessity even in casual internet conversation, you're not very likely to put them into practice out in the field. If our promotion of safety here makes a difference in the attitude that somebody takes to work with them, and perhaps prevents an injury or fatality, it'll have been well worth it. Yeah, probably not.
Well said digger,I for one don't think there was any attitude or malice used or intended and in all fairness no one wants or needs to be walking around on egg shells here for fear of upsetting someone else ,there is enough other sub standard people bashing forums on the world wide web for that crap. The reason I enjoy this forum is the friendly banter,the constructive exchange of views,the ethos of answering any question posted and not making little of the poster. When we post a picture after a hour or so it becomes the property of the forum the same with posts,yes we all have posted things and had them queried,which is only right and proper,yes yours truly has opened his mouth and landed both feet in it resulting with nothing to stand on and then when all the facts have come apparent wished I could retract what I said. To be right and truthful I think that it is healthy that people query the safety of sites and as we are here to exchange views to question other people methods,you never know someone's system may be different but be faster and easier to implement. It is a great way to learn and as there is such a wealth of knowledge here it is a shame not to share it.|To para phrase words of Stephen Covey to know some subject well you must first be able to teach it.I my self have learned a lot here and have taken my time ,some times I will read a post and leave it as I feel I have nothing to contribute,other times I read and go away think about it may research a little then post. I don't claim to know everything but this site shows me how little I actually do know, SO I AM HERE TO LEARN When the student is ready the masters will appear, so masters help me fill this empty vessel....
This my good man is the way our business has been driven by our respective safety authorities rightly so,I am of an age that remembers to days where we were used an abused ,then thrown a side with out any thought.Safety is a major part of our industry,with your quote proving that the training is working.
Well if you look in all of the other pictures the box was in the hole in that one spot it was back a little bit behind a drain line and we were pushing down an existing water service to get the pipe over it instead of cutting it to get the box through
i dont normally use shoring either but i never send anybody else in a hole even with shoring things can happen without common sense.first thing i learned as a sewer layer was to toss your wallet out before going in the hole(that way they dont have to dig you out at the end of the day to buy beer for the crew! :drinkup)
here are pics of grading the trench for patching
What do they pay per foot for something like that? I bury cable at the moment, not direct burial, but I usually bury 4" pvc and it pays about 32$ a foot in the street, but Im looking to get into burying water mains, how does it pay? At the moment I dont own an excavator so this is still a ways off.
digging around situ pipework with a toothed bucket surely he should have a 'gummy' on there safest option
we use toothed buckets because there is so much rock and hard pan up here you wouldn't get anywhere with a straight edge bucket
You guys got the 476 Northeast extension job in PA right?
Cool looking job pics!!! Looked like fun!!
Nice pictures John, and very nice equipment....