Hey guys, I eliminated the High-flow hydraulic system off my 1845c. I removed a hydraulic hose that ran from the foot control to the High flow system. I capped the fitting on the foot pedal valve. I am not sure if it is just coincidence or not, but when I put it back together the hyd. for my tilt and loader arms messed up. The loader arms will not go down unless you feather the tilt back and forth. So I took the valve out, tore it all apart, and made sure that it was returning to the neutral position. I reinstalled it and it made no difference. I bypassed the valve, and everything works as normal. Any suggestions?
You would really need to keep that open center flow circuit free to flow back to tank, I had one of my customers call me this winter with exactly what you described going on. One of his operators bumped the hi flo switch on inadvertantly and the machine hydraulics locked up as you described. Are the high flow hyds giving you trouble? My experience is that even if the system has problems that keep it from engaging you would never know it's there. You could remove the elbow towards the engine off the loader control valve and get a plug from Case but you will then disable aux as well. It is a good thing that the circuit you plugged was protected by the main relief. You cannot do that on an open center system, that was a power beyond system you plugged and carries full pump flow and you plugged it. The pressurized oil was working against the tilt and lowering mechanism. You were forcing ALL the GPM of the pump over main relief and if operated that way you would have destroyed the pump. the heat generated would have been tremendous. It is a wonder the machine started, working against the relief valve pressure present anytime the engine was turming. You were darn lucky. Is the hi flo leaking? why do you want to take it out of the circuit?? Mel
I took the High flow off because it was disabled, and I did not want the chance for leaks. I only use the loader on the farm and the Aux. hydraulics do everything that I need. I was told by the Case dealer that it does not matter if I plugged the power beyond port. So you are saying that I need to run a hose from the Power beyond to the tank. And then my Aux. hyd. will work? I looked at my buddies 2000 1845c and that has a plug in the power beyond hole, but was never equipped with the high flow system.
The flow must go through the aux valve up front from the power beyond port of the loader valve then back to tank to retain aux capabilities. The power beyond fitting in the loader control valve is actually an extended sleeve with an oring on it to take open center oil flow and make it available downstream. If the machine had no aux capability it would have a standard oring plug in the PB port so that oil would simply flow out with the loader valve return oil. If the Hi Flo is disabled, simply not working, I see no advantage to unhooking it unless you were going to remove the pump and components. That might free up a couple hp maybe. Unless there is something I don't understand unhooking it gains you nothing. Lots of used machines out there have Hi Flo and customers have no equipment for them. As long as the pump is still on the engine and running every time the engine starts you still have potential for a leak because you only unhooked ONE of the supplies to the Hi Flo. You need a dealer that has a clue!, You cannot simply plug off a power beyond port on an open center flow system. The flow OUT of the aux valve must be returned to tank and that is where it goes in the HI Flo valve unless the system is activated then it joins the Hi Flo pump GPM to give you the 35 GPM Hi Flo. Unless you understand the system, my advice is to leave it as you found it unless you are going to completely remove ALL Hi Flo components. I hate to sound harsh but you recieved some very flawed advice from a supposed EXPERT and with system pressures as high as they are you could have caused some considerable damage and even personal injury from scalding hot oil in worse case. I hope not to offend you but if the belly pans are kept clean and hoses kept from rubbing through leaks are just not that big a problem, certainly not as big as you set out to create by your circuit modification. Mel
I have had numerous 1800 series machines with high flow and as long as you insulate the hyd hoses from rubbing on each other you would be fine. I would keep the high flow active, heck you live in Michigan, get yourself a high flow snow blower.
Mel, Maybe I did not make my self clear. I have removed all of the high flow hyd system. (Pump, Electronic solenoid and all of the hoses.) I bought this machine over a year ago and noticed that the hoses were getting frayed and it was a pain to wash out with all of the extra hoses. Knowing that I would never use the high flow I decided to remove the complete system. On the supply side there was a tee coming off the cooler that supplied the High flow. I removed the tee and hooked the elbow where the tee was. (Just like a machine without the High flow option.) Then I replaced the return line under the radiator with a solid return line (Just like a machine without the High flow option). Now I am to the point that the only thing left is the power beyond port on the foot valve. I plugged that and removed the hose and the electronic solenoid. It sounds like you know a heck of a lot more about this than I do. The only thing that I went by is a 1845C without high flow and tried to reverse the process. So what your saying is that I still need to install a hose from the foot pedal even though the complete system is removed? Thanks
If you have removed all components for the HI FLo and wish to retain the AUX pedal function you must give the AUX valve a return to sump path for oil to flow back to sump freely. If you do not want to retain AUX function and defeat that also you must remove the elbow and fitting from the loader control valve that point toward the engine. Once the fitting is removed you will see how it is designed to seal in the interior of the valve to direct the oil downstream to the aux valve. You must either get the original plug for the valve or saw the protrusion off the fitting and plug the outlet then the oil supply will have a return to sump path and your hyd function should return to normal. As previously stated if you want to retain the AUX on the loader couplers simply give the AUX valve outlet a return path to sump. HTH. Mel
Thought I might help?........ As long as there are 4 hoses in place at the 4in1 valve - there should be return oil going to loader control valve...... The 4 in 1 valve also has a power beyond fitting (5th hose which has been removed) (item1 on firstpic)- this fitting needs to removed & a standard plug fitted.(item 18 second pic) - or tail cut off & plug refitted. The power beyond at the loader control valve needs to stay in place for pressure to get to 4in1 valve. Hope this hasn't put fuel on the fire :drinkup
I appreciate all the info. that you guys have provided. I do want to keep my Aux. hydraulics. I am trying to completely eliminate all of the high flow portion of the hydraulic system. A 1845C without high flow does not have a hose attached to the "5th or power beyond port", it is only plugged. In simlpe terms what else do I have to do to mine to make the aux. hyd. work properly?:Banghead
Airman, It is my impression that the complete Hi Flo package was removed, He has removed the engine mounted pump and all associated plumbing. I didn't look where the return oil from the aux went back in and should know as I have installed aux kits in shop. Maybe that info would do him some good and posting diagrams as you just did is extremely helpful, Jump in, the more the merrier. Just looked at your page again and wasn't figuring the power beyond sleeve in the aux valve. We have got to get him back to a simple aux circuit and he will be fine. Mel
Mel, you are right the all components of the high flow have been removed. The return for the high flow returns in under the radiator. It is like a inch return line that had a tee in it. I remove the tee and replaced it with a straight hose. Alrman, I have already plugged the power beyond port that you are talking about. I have some mechanical experience, but by far am not an expert. I am not understanding why I have a problem when I believe that it is now set up just like a machine that was not equipped with the high flow.
You cannot block open center flow, you must either allow the AUX valve to have a return to sump or remove the power beyond fitting from the LOADER valve, It is the fitting toward the engine with JIC elbow that has the hose connected to it that goes to the AUX valve at your feet. If you remove that PB fitting you will no longer have AUX but the oil flow will then able to get to sump within the loader control valve. If it were set up exactly like a machine that does not have HI Flo you would not be having a problem since your problems started when you removed it. Not to be smart but again, If you have the AUX valve capped off at its return hose you will keep having problems have you changed that? the oil from the loader valve must have a path to sump and you need to find out why it doesn't. The power beyond fitting in the aux valve may be the key, why don't you remove it and put a standard fitting in its place and try it.
I talked to the dealer and asked them if the original plug that inserts into the power beyond plug is a standard plug or if it is a special plug that would re-route the flow. They told me that it is just a standard plug. I understand that the only variable that I have is plugging the power beyond port, since that is the only thing left of the high flow system. Like I said before, I know that I am missing something that is different from a machine without high flow, but I just do not know what. I have not tried to install a hose from the power beyond to the sump. I was trying to set it up like a machine that never had high flow. If I add another hose it kinda defeats my purpose of removing extra hoses in case of leaks. But at least then I may have Aux. hydraulics. I don't get offended by you being smart, I really appreciate your input.
Jamie- 1) Do you have 4 hoses still connected to 4in1 valve? 2) By "plugging" the 5th hose (power beyond fiiting) - have you simply removed hose & fitted a JIC cap to the 90 deg elbow? What we are saying is that the 90 deg elbow, has a tube attatched to it - that goes in to the pressure port of the valve (to take flow/power beyond that valve) This 90deg fitting MUST BE REMOVED & a standard UNO plug fitted. I can't get a good picture of the 90deg power beyond - but this is the one at the loader control valve - which shows the "tube" that goes in to an internal port.
Yes, I still have 4 hoses connected. Yes I just capped the elbow. Sorry, I am not that familiar with hydraulic systems. So the plug that I need only supplied through Case or can I get it somewhere else? Thanks.
Ok, now we're getting somewhere. You don't need a Case part, if you have a hydraulic repair shop nearby - best you pull the fitting & take it with you for sizing. It should only cost $1or$2 - maybe free if they have some laying around. You could cut the "tube" off with a hacksaw & refit the fitting & cap it again - But if you wanted to fit the hiflow kit again or sell it complete - a new one from Case would be required - involving more than a couple of bucks :drinkup
Airman, I really envy the ability that you have to put pics up, I have not mastered that. Do you by any chance have a print of the AUX circuit showing the feed from the LDR valve, and the return to sump from same. I do not remember a PB fitting in the AUX valve in my installations so it must have to do with the HI Flo. It has been quite a number of years since the 45C series was rolled out so the mind may be a bit foggy. Thanks, Mel
This is the fitting that I removed out of the power beyond port. I am not sure what tube you are talking about? Are you saying to just leave the threads and cut the rest off? If it is just a regular plug I can just buy one. I really want to thank you guys for your help. I thought that it had something to do with this the whole time but I did not realize that the elbow was a special thing, I just thought that it would be easier to cap it off. I will let you guys know if it works. :notworthy
On my 1845c [1997 vintage], the the power beyond port has a hose that goes to the supply port on the aux. valve. the return from the aux. valve comes back & is teed into the return from the loader valve to the tank. My machine doesn't & never has had hi-flow hydraulics. I'll see if I can scan the hyd. scchematic from my service manual. Hope this helps. Mike
Here is a diagram showing the hoses to & from the aux. valve. Hope this helps
Jamie - By George I Think You've Got It! :woohoo the "tube" is what i called that sleeve part that has the extra oring on it. Like I said you could cut it off if you had too, but I would buy another plug. :drinkup
Yep, that's what I'd do. Get an SAE o-ring boss plug. Probably either an SAE 8 or SAE 10. Any hyd hose shop will have them.
Thanks guys, I am going to buy a plug today and try to get it back together tonight. I will let you know how it goes.
We will be anxiously waiting to hear you say "it works"!!!!!!!! Mel
It works! Thanks for the Info. I really appreciate it.:drinkup
Jamie, I was going to send you a private email, but I guess because I just joined I am not able to view certain areas, such as other members email addresses. What I was wondering, if you are not going to be using the Hi Flow, would you be interested in selling the Hi Flow parts if they will work on my 1992 1845C. I have the auxiliary, but I am thinking the Hi Flow might come in handy at times...............thanks.
I have already sold the system. I think that I got $189 on ebay for it.
Hey guys, Sorry to hijack the thread but being I am new I cannot post an new thread. Anyways I am wondering how to add the Power Beyond to the 1845. I have a log splitter that I would like to run from outside the cab. Would that be possible with the power beyond? If so can anyone tell me how to do it the right way. I am new to hydraulics... Thanks in advance and sorry to hijack. Hope you understand. Thanks, Mike