i just recently came across a 1967 case 580ck with the back hoe sitting in a field it has a 188 diesel that has set up. i am having a problem removing the cylinder head. i have removed everything including the bypass bolt behind the water pump. yet it seems to be held by something. do i need to remove the timing cover?(one piece cover) the only other thing i have not removed yet are the injectors. any insights or tips would help greatly
I presume that you have also removed the bolts in the timing cover that thread back into the head in addition to the bypass bolt, all bolts above the block level screw into the head, the adjusting strap bolt, the one above it and I believe one on the other side. If so the head is just stuck down on the gasket. You can drive a large screwdriver between the water pump housing and the front of the head at the valve cover gasket area to break that gasket loose, just don't go nuts on it. The head is located on 2 hollow dowels and if ferry head capscrews, those bolts will be slightly longer to go through the dowels so take care to get them in the proper holes There were different setups, head studs with flat washers with nuts, flanged nuts,12 point ferry head capscrews. Whatever setup you have if the fasteners are all removed it is free to come up. If you do not remove the injectors you run the risk of tip damage if you are not careful, do not lay it down flat keep the head surface up or set it down on a couple pieces of 2x4s side to side. The right way would be to remove the injectors before removal and a good shop can pop test them for pressure and pattern assuring a good result when reinstalled. The down side is if they are carboned or rusted in they can be damaged simply removing them. Keep us posted.
thanks for the response, Mel. i took your advice and removed the injectors and after that, it was as you said,just really good and stuck. i just wanted to be sure before i started to break it free,no sense in doing damage. the good news is that everything looks good. cylinder head shows some carbon,but not bad and i could see no obvious cracks. even the liners look to be in good shape. just a shame it got left to set up. now to get it broke free to start the rebuild. this is my first 188 rebuild, so any advice you may have with this particular engine would be appreciated.
When you say "set up", does that mean the engine is locked up and will not turn over ?
The mechanical rebuild will be pretty straightforward but if you are going to try to save the sleeves they should at least be pulled and the block interior flushed clean. You are wise for doing an overhaul on it as the rings set fast in the pistons from rust in the bore. If you are renewing the sleeves and pistons be sure to have the wp bushings renewed and honed to the new pins. I would be sure do this as I have done engines where the bushings were turning in the rods. Check the lower bores in the block where the sleeve seals sit and clean them thoroughly and make sure the approach at the top that guides the o rings is clean. If you do your work and cleaning properly the sleeves will slide into position with hand pressure. There are many things which will work as a lubricant for the sleeve seals. Vaseline works well as does dish soap or a good rubber lube. Have the head done by someone that is familiar with those engines as valve protrusion above the head deck is very important. It has been years now but I believe they want the valves .060 above the deck. Also have it checked for flatness and just enough to clean it up if necessary. I assume that you are doing an inframe so you won't be checking the cam and bushings and cam followers. If you are trying to break it loose with the head off you will have to fasten the sleeves with bolts with flat washers to keep the sleeves from coming up when you put pressure on it to turn it.
by "set up" i mean the engine is locked up,will not turn over. after removing the cylinder head,however, i see no signs of rust in the cylinders. i have been soaking them and they are being quite difficult to break free. i am beginning to wonder if there is something else locked up. i know it is not the external engine components,so, it would be in the shuttle drive/TQ. but it is hard to imagine that being the problem. my mechanical ability comes from 20 plus years of automotive experience..so this set up is somewhat unfamiliar. Melben, you are correct on the in frame,and thanks for the info on the valves/head..i located a shop that is familiar with this engine to inspect and recondition the head. now to find a place to rebuild the injector pump.
Any good automotive shop should be able to true up the head, just tell them to keep the valve protrusion near the maximum. I would recommend that you use ThePumpGuy for your injection pump and injector needs. He is a valued contributor to this forum and a little support from the members would go a long way. Mel
Fred; Is there a chance that a rod bearing has spun and caused the lock up? you might have to loosen the con-rod caps to get it to turn. I hope that isn't the problem. I can vouch for Thepumpguysc. I sent my pump to him through UPS. He even replaced all the metal id tags on it. It looked like a new pump when I got it back.
You may also see if you can pull the lifters up with a mag just a little, remove the steering pump since it drives off the cam gear, pull the injection pump and spin the pump with a big screw driver, if it turns remove the two shaft seals and slide it back on for now, ps tie the throttle lever back. Next would be to drop the pan like tinkerer said and start loosening up the rod caps, Does it have a mech shuttle or converter?, can you see a clutch pedal rod going to the bell housing ?. You said the hoe was off, does the rear have a PTO shaft spline. Just some thoughts.
May i ask you how hard the head was to pull. I have to pull the head off my old early 60s 188D backhoe to replace head gasket . Diver
If the head has never been off there is a bolt behind the water pump that must be removed, it has a hole in it to serve as a bypass. Most including myself do not reinstall that bolt as it is not needed to keep the area from leaking with the remaining bolts which can easily be removed from the outside, otherwise it is a simple job requiring no special knowledge or tools. Once you get the head off check the sleeve protrusion carefully, many of those older engines were prone to sleeve settling and later production had a wider flange sleeve from the factory, the early blocks can be updated but it is a machine shop operation. With the sleeve clamped down there should be .002--.004 thousandths above the block everywhere around the sleeve edge. The old style gasket with the individual fire rings is still available and oversize rings are available. I just done my 530 AG tractor with that gasket setup but used standard fire rings on all cylinders.
thanks, so much, are the fire rings like a when you o ring a engine block for high compression engines used in drag racing... Do you think a head gasket would give a sucking sound in exhaust if bad. Im 69 years old and as you know money is so tight, I know if its more than head gasket im done. again thanks so much for the reply diver
Yes , there is a composite gasket and loose fire rings that sit on top of the sleeves, A compression gage would be your best friend on this one but a blown gasket would deaden 2 cylinders.
Thanks for the reply, so i guess if gasket was blown id have a skip in diesel engine... learning here for diesel ..In my experience in automotive gas engine a blown head gasket in some cases will still run ok (no miss) but will pressurize the coolant to a point of pushing it out till it over heats... Any idea what is causing the sucking sound im hearing in exhaust.. thanks diver
If it is blown between two cylinders it will miss on both, First I would go over the valve setting, I had a tractor with that engine that had a strange sound in the intake and it was a very loose valve, you can isolate the cylinder at fault by feeling the exhaust runners where they come out of the head. I would suspect maybe a burnt valve, if that is the fault though you should be able to hear a distinct hiss when turning it over with the fuel shutoff set so it won't start.It is simple to remove the exhaust manifold on those and If you have a weak cylinder the runner involved will be very wet. No harm in starting it with it off and watching the ports, but use hearing protection as they are extremely loud especially if accelerated. If it were blown into the water you would have coolant being discharged and if into one of the push rod openings you should have a lot of blow by.
Thanks for reply. I did check valves and adjust per case specs.. I used a hand held infrared temp on exhaust manifold and could not tell much, did not pull manifold off. What is strange is that i have no loss in power and tractor starts right up and very little smoke at all. Heck my old 02 f350 diesel ambulance smokes worse lol. I guess in march if weather breaks i will pull head and hope for best. Thanks for all your help. siver