This gasoline powered (G159 engine) backhoe/loader had been sitting for a few years with vertical exhaust uncovered. I was able to rebuild and get her started after a good cleanout and reground valve seats, etc. Flushed the engine oil (twice) and it now runs great (with no oil smoke). Drained and refilled Hyd fluid (new filter, of course). Everything works perfectly! So... I went to move the thing and the clutch does not engage (it would always grab at the very top). I can put it in gear just fine. I'm going to adjust the pedal to max throw (since replacing the clutch plates, etc. looks like a huge job)... is there anything else that I should be aware of or can try before tackling the replacement clutch? Thanks
Is it a dry clutch or power shuttle, it could be low in oil if a PS unit, pull the dipstick and look at the level, if low add then run and recheck.
It's a power shuttle and I suspect you're probably correct. I checked the oil level and it is full though I've read a few other posts that say several people overfill the thing and it starts working fine after that. I think I'll try that first (since it's easy and cheap). Also ordered a new filter and will swap that out as well. Thanks for you help.
It might be worth a shuttle oil change as well as the filter. Make sure you use the correct spec oil, not just any hydraulic oil as these shuttles seem to work better with TCH or the newer versions. There are lots of opinions on what is the best and what will work but I have stayed with the Case TCH spec oil and regular filer changes. So far it has paid off as my '68CK runs and works fine. The manuals are a must have too. Jess
Have you looked at the dash gage for the trans pressure? if there is none or it is low you have a supply problem. check the pressure in fwd and neutral and reverse. Also those machines were notoriously slow to get converter fill so they would move. It was common with contractors to put them up on the stabilizes in gear and wait while it warmed up till the wheels moved
Okay thanks... sounds like a good idea to change the filter too. Looked around but didn't find a filter (or housing) where everyone says it should be... in front of the radiator. My machine is a 1967 (SN 8318563) and the only thing in front of the radiator is air (and hyd pump at the bottom). Were there several versions and some didn't have the filter? And... none of the gages work on this machine, yet. So I can't check trans pressure.
All had the filter out front that were powershuttle, even the prior 530 TC system had it. I think you should post pictures so we can see exactly what you have, shots of the area below the fuel tank taken fom the LH side, clutch pedal and low shots of the LH bell housing to see if linkage is present. Unless for some reason someone removed and piped around the filter it must be there if PS equipped. If you have a clutch rod that goes into the lower LH side of the bell housing you have a dry clutch and that changes the whole discussion. It also will not have a trans pressure or a trans heat gage
Okay, thanks. I've included a picture of the front of tractor where filter "should" be. Yes, I do have a clutch rod that goes into the LH side of the bell housing so it is a dry clutch.
I also looked pretty good (as well as I could without crawling in the mud) and didn't see any hoses or tubes capped off or rerouted that would have ever gone to the front of the machine.
hyd filter follow the tubing on the left side as you are facing it should be on this line, filter maybe before it get to tank,, sometimes there a will be a strainer in the tubing coming out of the tank
I have an Operators Instruction Manual for 480-580 Construction King Wheel Tractors. In the Hydraulic System Oil Filter description, they identify either a standard clutch or torque convertor filter located on the right hand side ahead of the right hand pedal. This has four bolts and may contain the filter for your particular tractor. Mine is a 580CK with loader and backhoe equipped with the power shuttle. It has the filter located ahead of the radiator and the rad has a cooler tank on the bottom. Yours does not appear to have the rad oil cooler. On my tractor, I have never looked behind the cover as it was always assumed to be empty. I may have to look and see if there is a filter there too:beatsme Jess I should have read the other posts, as I can see that Melben has set you straight and there is no convertor....
The filter info is good info , but, he has a dry clutch tractor and that filter if new, used, plugged or nonexistant has nothing to do with the tractor moving. He has a failed clutch. or a problem in the geartrain keeping the power from reaching the rear wheels, If the shuttle engages properly and the hi-lo box is good and a range engaged and all the gears are good clear to the axles the tractor should move. I once traveled 50 miles to a jobsite on a wont move complaint to put the range box in gear that the customer didnt realize had popped out.
Well... I looked everywhere and there is no filter (unless it's internal) and there are no lines coming from the shuttle shift/trans area (seeming to indicate that they were not capped or rerouted.). The shuttle "seems" to engage properly (and I never had a problem with it before). Same with the gear shift box and drive train. The only difference between when it ran before and now that it doesn't, is time. The fluid level in the shuttle box is just above the dipstick line and the fluid looks new (though it's not). Clutch doesn't make noise when pushed in or released so does that mean the pressure plate and throwout bearing are good and all I need to do it replace the clutch plate? I've also read that there may be a screen plate in the shuttle "box" that needs to be cleaned once in a while. Thanks for all the help.
Forget about any screen or pump or anything else, they are not there and have no effect on the drive.. Everyone is thinking about the Powershuttle machines which doesn't pertain to your situation whatever!! I have seen filters in the 4 bolt plate just ahead of the brake pedals on the side, a 4 bolt square cover in machines not equipped with hydraulics at all, of course it was like new as there was never any oil flow through it. Does the clutch pedal feel normal, does it have about a 1 1 /2 free movement then get harder to push like the fingers on the clutch plates are moving as they should or is it a soft push all the way down? I was thinking maybe the cross shaft had rusted fast but that should keep the pedal down returning as it is solid linkage all the way. Can you remove the plate on the LH side of the clutch housing to look at the internals. It does not make sense that it worked when last run and won't now. I can only assume that if the transmission shafts are not running that you have some kind of an unusual clutch issue. The clutches in those tractor we mettalic and generally the flywheel will have significant wear as will the pressure plate surface and all must be done together to get a good job. Any competent machine shop can straighten the flywheel surface up and the pressure plate is best replaced with anew or rebuilt one. Case has a good reman system and I wold recommend you stay with them if you indeed do need to replace parts. To reinforce what I told you before, this is not an oil supply issue. That standard shuttle would run without any oil whatsoever till it destroyed itself from lack of lube. Everyone speaks from their own experiences and all advice given is correct for the powershuttle but does in no way pertain to yours.
Okay... thanks. The clutch pedal feels somewhat normal. There is free play up front, then it gets harder as come into the pressure plate but it does not seem to "release" after that (like an automobile clutch would). It just keeps getting harder to press down any further. It doesn't seem to have any trouble going into gear (trans free, etc.), however. And the shuttle feels normal to me. I'll pull the inspection plate and see what I can see. Thanks for your help.
sounds like the clutch plate is broke loose from splined hub,,,if so you should have a rattling sound like something is broke inside bell housing. usually sitting causes a clutch to become frozen to flywheel, that happened you would have no clutch release
I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing about this tractor but after what Mel said, I also couldn't see why it wouldn't move either (there was no noise/rattling coming from the bell housing). So... I raised the both front and back tires off the ground, made sure it was in high range, shuttle forward, put it in first gear and released the clutch... the right rear tire was spinning (left rear seems locked up but I know I have clutch, etc.). Now to troubleshoot the left rear - Thanks everyone for all your help.
Do what you described but hold the brake on the side that dont move, you could have a broken axle, something locked up should cause the wheel to slide. If it was a hung up brake you would stall it, If braking the one side makes the wheel go fast I would check the axles. Anyway you are zeroing in on it. let us know
Pretty sure it's not brake related. Removed the brake housing on the stuck side and same results... other side spins fine but the stuck side won't move. I can manually roll the stuck wheel/tire back and forth an inch or so but then it hits something solid (gear?) and I can hear it clunk. Same thing in both directions (forward/backward). Anyway, as mentioned, I working through it.
Need a bit more help - Removed the "inspection" cover from the differential. When I put it in gear, only the right side spins like it should (ignore the froth... it's been running). Here are copies of the relevant pages from the Service Manual that I have: Since there is no grinding , I can't see anything that would prevent the left side from spinning as well (removed the left side brake cap & bands, etc.). Any ideas? Thanks
The center wheel contains 3 pinions that engage the brakeshaft gears, the little pinions can rotate on their pins and allow only one wheel to turn at a time, If the left side is jammed or turning much harder you will get what you are getting. You need to find out why the LH axle will not turn freely, the only thing I don't understand is why the tractor did not try to move or stall the engine when the clutck pedal was released in gear if the one side is simply locked up. You need to find why the LH axle does not spin freely . If the differential was working normally you should be able to turn one axle and the other should go opposite.
After looking at the diagrams closely, it seemed to me that maybe the spline plate (left hand inside brake) on stuck side may have rusted to the frame (everything else was immersed in oil so couldn't rust). Doused it with (homemade) penetrating oil, let it set for 5 minutes and took a sharp-edged chisel to the inside to separate it from the frame. SUCCESS !!! Everything is free and both wheels spin when in gear. This calls for a few beers... if all you guys were closer to Plymouth, I'd be buying. Thanks everyone!
Hey. Glad you got it fixed. I have 1970 580 ck model 33. I believe the shuttle is the same as the one described in this thread, because also I do not have the filter located in front of the radiator. I am not able to get the tractor to move forward. It moves great in reverse. I have tried to take off the shuttle cover, but it is getting stuck on something. Any idea on why it would get stuck? I am able to lift it about 3/4 of an inch and then it gets stuck and won't come all of the way up. It shuttle shifts from reverse to neutral with no issues. That brings me to another question. Is there supposed to be 3 settings (forward, neutral and reverse) or two settings and the shuttle shifting from reverse to forward and then not doing anything when it is in forward? I am able to shift between two settings with no problem and I am assuming that is reverse and neutral and something is preventing it from shifting to forward. If that is accurate then the same problem preventing it from going into forward could also be preventing me from lifting the shuttle plate off. Any insight is very much appreciated.
The shifter must be in the reverse position to remove the cap, otherwise the shift fork is under the front of the tranny case and it will not let you lift it off.
Thanks Melben. I've been reading through these forums the past few days since I bought this old 580 and you seem to be spot on about everything. I'll check to see if I had it neutral while trying to remove the case. I believe I tried both the reverse and neutral settings, but maybe it wasn't fully engaged into neutral. There should be a forward, neutral and reverse setting for the shuttle shifter, right? Have you seen one that wouldn't shift into forward? Thanks for the info.
I just tried in both of the settings that I am able to put it in. When I pull up on the cover it lifts barely and gets stuck. It acts like the fork is stuck on the the gear possibly. Something is clearly hitting and not allowing me to lift it off more than a half inch or so. Could something on the high/low side be hitting and not allowing me to lift it off? Could something have broke off and jammed causing it not to go in forward and not allowing me to lift the cover off? When everything is together, I am able to shift the shuttle into reverse and the tractor moves perfectly backwards and I am also able to shift the shuttle into neutral setting. I have changed the gear oil and the hy tran fluid.
According to the Service Manual, shuttle cover removal should be pretty straightforward. Here are the relevant images (parts explosion & Instructions) for both the dual range and the shuttle shift only: Hope these help.
In 50 years I have done dozens of them! The synchro assembly must be engaged in reverse position to allow the front of the fork to clear the casting to come up. I have had to do severe damage to remove ones that wouldn't come into reverse from grinding gear damage,
Thanks PlyCase for the service manual image. I've never taken one off, but that is pretty much what I had pictured in my head. I can't really see what could be hitting based on the drawing. I'm ready to get this thing off to see what is going on. Mel, unfortunately I think I am going to have to do some damage to get it off too. The odd thing is that it clearly will go into reverse. It will drive up a steep hill with no issues at all, so it seems like it has to be fully engaged in reverse. It will also shift into neutral it just won't shift into forward. I'm going to try to mess with it a little more today. Hopefully I get a different result. Maybe it isn't fully shifting over and is hitting the casting like you are saying. That's what it seems like it is doing, I just can't figure out how it would move in reverse so well if that is the case. Thanks again for the info guys.
I tried again and I am getting nowhere. Do you think if I keep working it back and forth trying to force it into forward it could eventually go. It just seems like not much could be preventing it from going into forward because it moves so seamlessly from reverse to neutral and there is no grinding or unusual noise. I really hate to pry/beat/force the cover off.
Do you have the range lever on the right in neutral?
Ok I took off the transmission cover and put my hand down through onto the fork. When I shift it into reverse the fork moves back towards the rear, but it lacks about 1/4" to moving back far enough to remove the shuttle cover. Just as Melben said that is what is hitting and not allowing me to lift it off. When I have everything together it will function in reverse perfectly with the fork at that exact location. When I shift into forward the tractor will not move. Any ideas why it isn't engaging into forward and any ideas why it works perfectly in reverse although the forks haven't shifted all of the way back? I drained out quite a bit of water. Could it be rusted and not shifting correctly? Thanks a lot for the help.
It obviously is not moving far enough back to allow the fork to clear, whether you have a burred slider or whatever is keeping it from coming back, common sense tells you it could not have been installed in the place where it is now. Can you get a pry to try to force the slider back some?
Mel, How did you get the case off when it wouldn't go into reverse and you said you had to do some damage? What is happening is the shuttle will engage perfectly when shifted towards the front of the tractor. That is reverse on my tractor. It will fully engage and the wheels turn in reverse fine. When I shift the shuttle towards the rear of the tractor it won't fully engage, it will move right up to the synchronizer and that is as far as it will go. I have felt around the gear and it seems like it is fine. Is there any reason it won't engage other than something something lodged in between? The synchronizer doesn't feel like it is damaged or bent.
Hey guys- I got the cover off and there is nothing visibly broken. No gears look bad, everything looks straight, the synchronizers looks fine. I was expecting to see something broken off or lodged that would prevent it from engaging into forward. Any ideas what could cause the shuttle to shift into reverse perfectly and then when trying to shift it into forward, slide all the way up to the synchronizer and not engage into forward? Thanks for the help.
It could be a dislodged or broken snap ring on the main-shaft or the synchronizer isn't as good as it looks.
After turning I noticed some burrs on the housing sleeve. Could that be what is preventing the shuttle from sliding all the way back and engaging?
Can you move into forward with a bar with ease ? There is more to a synchronizer than what you when it is the case. I am not trying to be a smart a##. There can be internal problems with it that can only be found by removing it. A snap ring could be the problem in it. Here is a link to the complete assembly. http://partstore.casece.com/us/parts-search.html#epc::mr49912ar781670
It will shift into reverse with ease. When I try to shift it into forward it will not engage. Everything slides fine and like I said it will engage into reverse with no problem. I appreciate the pic. I was hoping to avoid splitting the tractor, but it seems like I'm going to have to.
I gave you some wrong information about the sycro., I referred to snap rings when in fact they are springs in it, # 17 in the picture. If one of them has failed it would allow #18 to cause your problem. Maybe the synchronizer hub has gone to far forward and caused your problem. Maybe Melben or Alrman will chime in with better information.
Yeah I've been looking at the manual. Everything appears to be in good condition other than the scarring that you can barely see in the pictures. How would I tell if the hub has gone too far forward? Thanks.
For me it would require taking it off of the shaft. I would then see exactly what is going on with it. That hub should slide back and forth with ease when it is turning. You said everything slides fine. I take it you mean into reverse only. But, it like hits a wall so to speak when trying forward ? A professional mechanic that is more familiar with them may have another way to analyze the problem.
From the supplied picture it appears that the synchro collar is slid ahead into forward position as it should be centered on the carrier in neutral and appears to be well ahead toward the input gear for engagement, if that is correct the exterior teeth on the input gear must be worn extremely bad or the synchro sliding collar teeth ground off of the gear interior. The only other thing that could be possibly wrong is the input gear could be slid ahead because of a bad bearing or something of that nature but that should be obvious. Pure supposition but it sounds like to me that there was burring of the reverse side also as the fork should have easily came back into the reverse position with out any problem for cover removal. If so, it is most likely caused by either abuse or a drag in the drive that makes shifting without grinding difficult
I looked around my starter on my case 580 B ck backhoe and I could not find a fill tub or fill plug so I must not have a shuttle drive trans: but I do have a clutch and pressure plate on it.
how do I put a picture of me on here.???
my case 580 B was making taping sounds in the rear end and when I took the inspection cover off of it. I had 3 broke teach on the BULL GEAR and some broke teach on my right side slid gear and 2 broke teach on the lift side slid GEAR so I had to put all 3gears back in it new. and when I called CASE INC: They said the new BULL GEAR cost $1500 and the short gear cost $495 and the long GEAR cost $649. so I called a friend of mine that worked in the CASE shop and he got me the BULL GEAR FOR $129 AND THE SHOT GEAR FOR $79 AND THE LONG GEAR FOR $99 DOLLAR's. MAN he saved me a lot of money. but now my clutch is slipping real bad. so I went to the website brokentractor.com in Baton Rouge LA. they have my new clutch for $130 and the pressure plate cost $135 and the release bearing cost $30 dollars.. so now I have to find some one to help me put it in cause I got my right arm tour off 2 years ago at the elbow so ill need a few more hands to help me out
HI. im Charles Keith l. mine is like that so mine is a dry clutch it has a rod that goes into the lower LH side of the bell housing and I took the cover off and I could feel the clutch in the bell housing.. now I just have to find some one to help me change it out...
well good night every one. I got to go take a test in the morning at the paper mill if I pass it ill have the job...
Welcome to HEF and Good luck on the job application Charles !
it may be the spider gear on the bad side one is longer than the other one. if I was close to you I would fix it for you. I just had to put new ones in my case 580 CK.
NOW I NEED A FUEL PUMP FOR MY MF40B.
Thank you Tinkerer.
im having trouble trying to figure out how to send Reply back to you guys sorry.
Did you get the job at the paper mill, Charles ??
According to photos you shared you have a mechanical shuttle machine with a dry clutch. You don not have a power shuttle. Try adjusting your clutch pedal.