Just wanted to take a moment to thank those on the forum who helped get me this far, I'm sure I will need more help in the future. Especially to PumpguySC for some key advice with the our basement injection pump rebuild! For those who don't know, I started with an abandoned machine untouched for over a decade (with an uncovered exhaust) that was towed from a neighbors yard down the road by my fathers Kubota. It had a seized engine and as it turns out a trashed injection pump (just for starters) After pulling the valve cover and sneaking some oil into the seized front cylinder through the partially opened valve, we let it sit for a week or so... We removed the hydro pump and fashioned a crankshaft extension from some scrap steel and rigid pipe that we bolted to the engine in place of the pump. After a few weeks of repeated attempts to rock it with (2) four foot bars, it finally broke free!!! Now with the starter finally able to turn over the engine, we pulled the fuel lines and hoped to see some flow from the high pressure lines, but got nothing except a good flow from the return line... After pulling the injection pump I contacted PumpguySC for some advice. Thankfully he was able to tell us that the flakes we were seeing in the pump bowl was a typical failure of these pumps and that the replacement of the affected part required a complete rebuild... Not that his quoted rebuild price was anything but reasonable, but my father and I are die hard DIYers and decided to give it a go... a week and various nozzles , gaskets o-rings, and curse words later we mounted it back up and a gave her a good prime. Thankfully and I think against the odds...the old Case roared back to life sending glowing flakes of carbon all over us in celebration (we hadn't re-mounted the exhaust yet)...awesome. So as it stands now, it runs excellent, it moves well (many thanks to the power shuttle gods) and the rear stab. cylinder that blew its gland seal all over my mothers nicely mowed back yard is waiting for tonight to get re-installed. My next chapter will involve trying to repair an electrical system that seems held together by wire nuts and is filled with unhooked connectors and broken wires... I have the PDF wiring diag. to help me, but right now the tach is dead and none of the lights work. Aside from one or two here and there, I have no idea what switch and lever on the dash is supposed to control what light ect... the manual seems to be no help. Is there anyone with a labeled dash for this vintage tractor that can post a pic so I at least have something to start with? Thanks again all! I'll post some pics when I get the Stab. Cyl back on.
Nice , that is just to kool
Success...getting a 75 JD 450b loader up to snuff myself Make friends with the hose guy... howard
Yea... so far only had to replace 3 that were too poor to even hold ANY flow, but I'm sure there are many more to come. I have yet to get the travel lock on the hoe released for fear of blowing the boom hoses, but the time has come to give it a go... I seem to recall that there was some sort of trick to release the travel lock? can anyone enlighten me? Also, anyone with a labeled dash that can upload a pic for me to work from?
My travel lock, and this is the later model 9300 hoe attachment, is a 1" metal pin for the swing and a tapered pin for the boom. I actually snapped the 1" swing lock pin last week, new one was fabricated out of 02 tool steel, and a handle welded on. And...Amazon prime now has tool steel drill rod delivered to your door with no shipping cost. Howard
Your welcome.. Glad I could help..
Xess...glad to hear you saved another one of the old ones ............post some pics of that old girl when you can also also watch tsc hyd oil sales until you get that beast to quit leaking .........If you dont have a gland nut wrench you may want to get one so you can rebuild the cylinders yourself when its time .........
Here are some pics as promised... So it seems that someone had previously replaced the alternator with a Delco one-wire setup, but it isn't charging... Do i just assume it is dead? or is there any troubleshooting to be done?
Since the electrical system is questionable, you may want to check the wiring before springing for a new one. I converted mine a long time ago and haven't had to touch it since. You can google it or try this link for a basic understanding of what's required and why. http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/articles/artint178.htm
I guess its my luck that the alternator is dead... All I get with a meter is the 12.xx volts of battery juice. Although after reading the article you linked to, it seems there is a wire that shuts the alternator off when the key switch is off... Is this present in the 580B? if so where does it go? ground switched? I can trace it out no one knows, its just that the wiring is a big mess and its taking a while to sort it out line by line. It took me an hour just to un-tape and cut all the little zip ties that the previous owner thought were necessary some how. The main charging wire was in no less than three segments of different gauge wire...all held together by red wire nuts. On a different note, I powered her up today and tried out the new stabilizer cyl. rebuild. It took quite a bit of effort to raise the back end... is this normal? or maybe is it possible that the hyd. filter is choking the flow? the oil is some used but filtered stuff I keep around for troubleshooting systems with leaks so i don't waste new fluid on the grass. As such I'm pretty sure its not the fluid its self, but if not the filter, and this is not a normal condition, maybe my pump is starting to fade? I welcome opinions.....
boom lock with my 580 b I have to throttle up and pull up and down on the boom. force it up then down and pop it toward you to get it to free the catch and u should have3 it. mine I gotta replace the boom hoses. when its in transport mode it rubbed the hoses and the wire is showing.
xess............It sounds like you have verified 12v at the alt and if so make sure the connection at the alt is clean to my knowledge if both of these are good you will need to take the alt to a repair shop and the shop around me actually converted a 3 wire gm alt to a 1 wire alt with new brushes and bearings for $35.00 for my neighbors 580b so there not bad to get repaired...... The key switch to send power tothe alt is probably a good idea so you kill the power when you shut the tractor off but it really just matters what makes sense to you it should work as long as it has 12v while your running it.....
They do make aftermarket GM type alternators that are true one wire, they have a special regulator. They don't work well sometimes, they have different methods of triggering them to bring them "online" Some of them detect the voltage drop from the starter, and there are other methods. Then you have the stock GM alternators, someone mentioned "3 wire" and when they were stock they did have 3 wires, the large output wire that goes to the battery +, and the two smaller wires. This is the alternator I would use, you can go to the parts store and ask for a alternator for a 79 monte carlo. You are correct, it does need a wire from dash light to trigger it to charge. In it's homemade form this is a wire from the ignition switch to a dash light with a plastic socket with two wires, no ground. One of the bulb wires goes to the key-on power from the switch, the other wire leaves the bulb and goes to the #1 terminal on the alternator. This is one of the smaller wires on the plastic plug, the #1 and #2 should be cast into the case. The #2 wire is the feedback control for the internal regulator. This terminal can simply be jumped to the large battery terminal, it works fine this way. Sort of makes it a "2 wire" alternator.
It doesn't require a dash light in order to work but that might be an easier place to tap than another wire on the key switch - as long as the dash lights come on when the key is on. I went to auto zone and got the same alternator as my old Chevy truck - came with lifetime guarantee. Don't tell them it's for a backhoe - they have no clue. Make sure the belt fits right in the pulley or swap the old one before you turn in the core. I put one on my '48 International tractor also but wired it through a toggle switch since it has no key. up for charge - down for off - works like a charm.
ok, so I have one more thing to try then I guess...NONE of my lights work, dash or otherwise... I will check the wiring again tomorrow. Thanks for all the input, I'll let you know how it goes. As far as the boom lock goes, sounds like it truly is a pain in the rear... at least its not just me. I was going easy on the boom hoses but i guess I'll have to give it a little more wiggle and see if she frees up. Thanks again all
The boom transport lock is a good thing but there is a process. If you do it as described in the manual it works pretty easy. A manual is the most important tool you need if you own one of these and do your own work. The second most important tool is google search and this forum. Google any problem you have like "Case 580 B transport lock release" or "wiring an alternator" etc. and you will get lots of info and videos including a search of this forum. Some 580 models had a pin to secure the boom once it was in the lock position. You have to remove the pin before the boom will release if it has been installed. Wiring the alternator is simple. I wouldn't hesitate to rewire a new/rebuilt GM Delco right to the key and battery so at least it will start - then you can get a fuse block and wire up some lights and anything else electric. If you have no room on the key switch you can tap any wire that is hot with the key on for the "exciter" wire - or use a toggle switch and run it right from the battery.
One thing to watch for on wiring up the GM alternators, you may have to use a diode if you hook it straight to the keyswitch with no dash light. The #1 trigger wire has a tendency to feedback voltage, so if you tie this wire into your wire for the injection pump, the engine may not stop, the alternator may backfeed voltage to it and keep it running. I have never tried it on a diesel, but have had this problem backfeeding the ignition coil on a gas engine conversion. You may notice even with the dash light, when the vehicle is turned off it will slowly die instead of instantly cutting off. The diode inline to the alternator #1 will cure this, or a double pole ignition switch will also cure it, putting the alternator on the other pole to separate it from the ignition coil/fuel injection pump wire.
franklin, Good point, a diode, a separate pole or separate switch may be required for a gas motor but these old diesels don't have electric solenoids to shut off the fuel. It's done manually with a cable that is usually pretty effective.
Confirmed, the Alt is dead as a door nail. 12v trigger on terminal #1 was confirmed hot with the key switch, the sense wire on #2 was jumped to the main charging lug...just as you all predicted... I think I'm gonna pull it and see if I can get a board for it. Seems simple enough. As far as the travel lock, that's gonna have to wait till I get through this wiring. Now I'm committed. I was considering just ripping out all the crap that currently passes for a harness, mounting a fuse box and re-wiring everything...I think it may be faster, but now I don't know... Kinda like putting a fuel injected Ferrari motor in an old hot rod, just does not seem right. Has anyone found a drop in modern replacement for the 4"? sealed beam lights in the grill and apparently also used as dig lights facing rearward? Oh yea, I was looking at gland nut wrenches online and there seems to be a range of choices, any favorites that work best with this machine. I'm pretty sure I'm in for a few more seals to go bust once I get back to my travel lock dilemma By the way, I do havemanuals I was able to source online for free, both service and operators... But for some things they seem to be no help at all. That's where you guys come in I guess.. Thanks again.
Your delco alternator may have a self exciting voltage regulator in it. If does not have one the alternator will not put out a charge when the engine is idling. It won't start to charge until the engine gets up to about 1100 rpms. I highly recommend that you install one. They are available at any auto parts store.
If you have a free source for online manuals, please post a link so others may benefit also. Did you read up on how to engage and release the transport lock? It's hard to judge the condition of your wiring from here but if you re-do it, you'll know it works and understand why. You don't need a fuse block but they are convenient if you have to fuse protect multiple circuits but what do you have beside lights? You could get away with a screw terminal block for multiple 12 volt taps. If you use inline fuse holders, get the waterproof ones.
Thanks for that info. Here's a link to a site that shows how to convert a 3 wire to a 1 wire. http://www.mightymo.org/Proj_OneWire.html
Hi all, I just purchased a 1970 Case 580B and am starting the journey of fixing all it’s issues. I’m going to tackle the wiring first then the power steering then everything else. I’ll probably start with a new battery and isolator as its losing charge overnight and recharging everyday is a pain. Just thought I’d mention I found free service manuals here for others looking for somewhere to get started. http://www.minnparbackhoeparts.com/...HOE MANUALS&SFName=CNH (CASE) Service Manuals These forums have already been a huge help in the first week so thank you all and if I find anything I think may contribute I’ll be sure to share. Cheers
hey im mike. i purchased a 580 b and i restored it somewhat. ghe key switch didnt work so i junked it. my amp meter and fuel gauge was eating up my piwer when it sat all night. what i did i put a tee where the oil pressure sensor is on the block left side. and hooked it back with the sensor on 1 side and a pressure swithch normally open till u get oil pressure ran a pisitive wire through this to a reLay to ground. when it starts up everything is dead but when oil pressure closes that swith it closes the relay and sends power to my dashboard. when u choke it and it dies u lose oil presure the swith opens and kills power going to dash. the idiot lights i reused those to let me know if i lose powef on my dash. i parelled them both and hooked to power coming from relay the minute i get piwer they come on and gauges and all work. when i kill it they go out. i used 2 so if a bulb blows the other will let me know if all is well and i replace the other bulb asap.
Hey y’all, I too have been working on a 1972 580b. To summarize what’s happened I overhauled the engine but didn’t mess with the cam or cam bearings. Spun a cam bearing about five hours of breaking the engine in. Bought a 1970 580ck with bad pinion bearing and swapped engines. The 580b’s wiring is a rats nest of electrical tape wire nuts and other connectors of different colored wires on each run and an aftermarket alternator. The 580ck wiring looked original. When I first swapped engine and hooked the wires up the way I thought they should go according to pictures I took before unwiring the old engine I couldn’t even start the tractor. The alternator only has two wires I see, one green one painted yellow. I can’t get a voltage from either one with the engine running not from either one to ground or from between the two. I’ve been helped greatly by reading posts on the forum working on this old tractor but just now made an account. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
580B wire diagram from the service manual.
Thanks Tinkerer, I may entirely redo the wiring to save time and confusion.
You are most welcome ! Here are the factory color codes for it.