Ok guys I'm new to the site and have really appreciated it so far. I recently bought a 580K as my first backhoe...and also the first diesel I've ever worked on. When I got the machine it started and ran good, but it had some electrical problems so I have been slowly fixing them. For example, when I got it, it started by touching 2 wires together that had been run ever so conveniently into the cab under the stick shift. I replaced the starter switch and cured that problem. To shut the machine off you pulled a piece of bailing wire that shut off something on the injection pump. The fuel stop solenoid had been gutted and it would free flow all the time. So, today I replaced the fuel stop solenoid and primed the engine and it started right up. AND, it shut right off with the key! It was GREAT until when I went to start it back up it just cranked and cranked. Again, I primed the system and it started right up, but as soon as I shut it off it won't start again unless I prime it. So, is my injection pump worn out or what? I'm thinking maybe it isn't strong enought to pull fuel through the new solenoid, but that's just a guess. I can put the gutted solenoid back in and it starts just fine. SO FRUSTRATING! I would sure appreciate any advice that you guys have. Thanks!!!
You have to have the 12 volts at the solenoid to pull the plunger back while cranking. hook your test light up while cranking and see if the light goes out or use a multi meter and watch for a low voltage issue. You can also run a fused wire from the bat + to the connection on the solenoid and try to start it. If it starts you have a issue on the wire to the shut off solenoid. Is the machine a phase 1 machine or three?.
Just some thinking out loud ... If the engine runs after start, then the injection pump is getting fuel through the new solenoid. Priming the system with the new solenoid allows starting. Could you be losing fuel prime with the new solenoid? Air gets into the line somehow? New solenoid not sealing at fittings?
Hopefully thepumpguy will get wind of this and help you out. I sent him a pm with the link here.
Hi guys, Sounds like your loosing 12v on cranking.. does the solenoid have 1 wire or 2 ? Just run a "hot wire" [+] from the battery straight to the solenoid and try to start it. Either way, you could hook up a "toggle switch" and mount it in the dash. Does the NEW solenoid have an o'ring on it??
Hey guys I really appreciate the help. This machine has had MANY electrical problems, so I have been running new wires for the essential operations that had electrical problems. The original wire that I think was supposed to be connected to the fuel solenoid would only read 3V with the key on, so I ran a new wire from the "orange/white" wire at the key switch. It should have been the original source of power for the solenoid, but it has 12V at the key so something was wrong with the wiring between the switch and the solenoid. With the new wire installed it definitely had 12V with the key on, but I didn't think to check it while cranking. So, you think the prime gives it the fuel it needs to start and then when I return the key to the run position the solenoid is activated and it runs good, huh? That kinda makes sense. I will check it first thing tomorrow and report back.
Oh, and yes the new solenoid has the o-ring installed and requires a single hot wire.
If you climb up under the machine and check the frame rt hand side you will see some harness connects following the harness down from where it goes up threw the floor. You will more than likely find the male and female connects are bad with corrosion or eaten away causing low voltage/no voltage threw them. The wire runs from the key switch to the fuse block down the harness to that connect and on to the fuel solenoid. Your machine with the key on or in the start position has the 12 volt going to the solenoid to pull the plunger back. Your fuel pump/lift pump mounted on the engine is more than likely doing it's job. Once the 12 volt issue to the shut off is fixed I think it will work. Most K machines had issues in the harness connects, fuse blocks. It is not uncommon to find the connects jumped and spliced to correct many elect issues .
Well I did test voltage today and I have a good 12v... Any other ideas?
Lets go back, hot wire to the solenoid straight from the battery, machine will start and run, yes or no. If it runs and you unhook the wire it shuts off, yes or no. If you rehook the wire back and restart will it run, yes or no. Can you hear a click noise when you touch the term with a hot wire at the solenoid, yes or no. If no can you take a second wire from the bat neg and touch the metal part of the solenoid and touch the hot wire back to the connector and hear it click, if no remove the solenoid, check spring and plunger and retry in your hand to watch for movement (careful to not lose the spring and plunger) will it pull the plunger in, yes or no. If no look at the solenoid good to see if it's 12 volt or maybe 24 volt, if it is by chance it is a 24 volt it will not work. If by chance before when hooking/touching the hot and ground wire to the solenoid while still in the pump it worked, recheck your three ground straps on the machine and retry. If the solenoid did not pull in while in your hand, it's bad, or the wrong voltage. We have to be sure that the solenoid is working or we will be going round and round.
Sounds like you had a "couple" of issues at the same time. If you have 12 volts in "run and start" now, at the solenoid, it seems like you solved "this' problem. If you have to "prime" it constantly to get it running,, I would think you have an "air' issue somewhere. If you have a leak or air intrusion, you will loose prime. Check all your fuel lines for cracks etc, especially around the fuel filter.
Thanks guys. I plan to try a couple things tonight to verify it's not a power issue. I've not been able to get to it this week. I was able to check the voltage and it was good, but just to eliminate any questions I am going to run a hot wire directly from the battery to the solenoid tonight. I will see if it start right at that point. It's a wierd deal because it seems to run and start fine with the old gutted solenoid and it runs good with the new solenoid if I prime it. But when I kill it and try to restart with the new solenoid it just cranks and cranks. I plan to run the tests that Sheepfoot suggests tonight and I will let you all know the outcome.
I was able to test the system fuel solenoid today. I ran a single hot wire directly from the battery to the solenoid. Once I primed the system I started the engine with no problem. However same problem still exists when I kill the engine it will not restart without being Primed. The engine runs good with power to the solenoid, I throttled it up and down and it responded good. And when I removed power the engine died immediately. So for now I have removed the new solenoid and replaced it with the old one. When I test the solenoid independently I don't get much movement from the plunger. In fact it's barely visible. How much movement should I see from the plunger when I connect 12 V and a ground to the solenoid?
Here's the new fuel stop solenoid I purchased. At this point I am making the assumption that this is my problem as I get little to no movement from the solenoid when connecting voltage to it. I can only assume that it is opening just enough to allow the fuel system to operate once the engine started, but not allowing enough of an opening for the system to draw the initial fuel on start up. On a positive note I did get the alternator charging which has been a problem and I got the lights working on backhoe tonight so that's a huge plus for me! If I can figure this little problem out I'll be in hog heaven! Ha ha
The solenoid plunger should snap shut w/12v.. if it barely moves and you can push it w/ your finder even further, you either have a problem w/ voltage or w/the new solenoid.. maybe the spring is to strong?? Does the new sol. have a # on it?? Dephi [CAV/Lucas] actually makes the solenoid and the pump.. maybe your [aftermarket] sol. isn't right.. just thinking out loud.. IF the engine cranks w/o the guts in the sol. WITH OUT PRIMING, the answer is pretty obvious. its the solenoid. MY thinking is.. once you prime the system, your pressurizing the fuel system to the point it "helps" lift the plunger..
check your fuel lines for loose or cracked or if they are rubber lines just replace them and eliminate that possibility.
Okay guys well I did find the problem! Like pumpguy said, the off brand fuel stop solenoid wasn't opening like it should have been. I went down to my case dealer and bought a new oem solenoid and the problem was obvious. The off brand solenoid wasn't really even opening and the new part opens nearly 1/4" with 12v applied. So the off brand solenoid was opening just enough to sustain fuel flow when the engine was running, or when well primed, but not opening enough to feed it during startup without a prime. Thanks for the help guys! Now on to the next problem...
Thanks for letting us know.. Glad to help..