New to your forum and looking for advise. Purchased a 410d awhile back and the hydraulics are not up to snuff. Hoe boom will lift machine but stick won't, feels like blow by on relief valve, same thing when I lift front end up. Boom down loader will max out but tilt won't keep lifting front end up. Doubt it's a simple fix, but was wondering if it's hydraulic pump or pressure relief valve etc.
When you say "feels like blow by on relief valve", what does that sound like? Squealing/whining? engine under load? Or quiet and no load on the engine like when you hold the bucket control curled all the way (or extended all the way)? The system pressure relief is probably located in the priority valve, which is probably on the inside of the right frame rail, so that's where the noise should be coming from, if the noise is not coming from the pump in front.
Engine noise remains the same no load, sounds like when you hold the curled as you say. Does not make loud squeal as if hydraulics pressure is high.
You could check the standby pressure on the main hydraulic pump if you want, but that sounds normal to me. I don't think the stick will lift the machine on it's own. I would think that the bucket would curl with the weight of the machine, but that might depend on how hard the ground is, if it's pushing against the stabilizers or backhoe, etc. The no sound/no engine load is the way this closed center hydraulic system works. The pump puts out only so much pressure and then stops, just like it does with no valve open.
While digging in soft wet soil I could easily stop the stick and had to feather the boom and bucket to dig. After setting loader bucket down the tilt couldn't lift the front end. We are on a ranch and my farm tractors can easily lift the front up with the bucket, that's what threw up the red flag. The stick part I was telling you about feels as it has pressure then like the valve is over center or blowing by as pressure relief? Thanks by the way 4 your help Del
You need to get the standby pressure spec., find the test port and check standby pressure with no functions active, no levers moved. If it's within spec, move on to testing each function's port relief valves, though from the sound of it you're not flowing oil over the relief or you would hear the engine load up. If standby pressure is low, there is a valve block bolted to the pump with an adjusting screw you can turn in a bit at a time and adjust the pressure to spec. The usual safety admonitions apply, do NOT adjust your standby pressure above factory setting except as directed by the service manual for testing relief valves. If your pump pressure drops below the setting when any function is deadheaded, for example moving the stick to the end of it's travel and not releasing the lever, then you probably have weak main relief or port relief valves, which are replaceable, or in some cases may be shimmable.
I don't have a test manual but from what I've read psi should be 2750 or so. Will that be at an idle or throttle say 1500?
Probably 2,000 rpm with the oil warmed up.
Sounds right, I did see one relief in the parts list that was noted as 3,000 psi, which would make 2750 enough lower to not be popping the relief all the time. I think Delmer is right, well above idle and yes warm oil, I always forget that, lol.
I'm laid up with a knee operation but had a local independent check pressure, at cylinder it was 2700+ so pump checks out. He said loader bucket still wouldn't tilt and lift the front end up. Could it be a valve?
I don't see how the valve or anything else would cause the cylinder to lose power and NOT load the engine. I think it's just the design/geometry of the bucket tilt with one cylinder. Now if the engine was loading up, or the bucket settled there could be another issue.
Maybe it's normal but I figured it'd have more power in the tilt than a farm tractor.
They're designed to tilt up with a load, not so much the other way. A lot of the farm loaders run the cylinders so the piston is pushing when you tilt down, lots of extra power that's just a bonus of design. The 410D and it's many brothers use a cylinder that pushes to tilt the bucket back, so there's much less force when tilting down and the linkage system probably doesn't help. Now the arm weakness may be a whole nother story, separate valve stack, etc. Same pump though, so that's puzzling.
Hey thanks, that does make sense. JJ the guy that took the pressure said hoe felt normal but when I was loading hoe bucket with mud I stalled the stick. Maybe the oil warms up and effects the relief or destroke etc?
It's easy to push down on the bucket and dig it in enough that the stick won't retract, that's the nature of the beast. You want to take even slices when digging, not fill the bucket and then pull everything in front of the bucket along for the ride. Of course the stick won't pick up the machine if it's extended out at all, just look at the geometry of the cylinder. The loader bucket isn't designed to lift up the front of the tractor, it DOES have more tilt power than a typical farm tractor loader- UP.
I was comparing this hoe to a d125 case I had on a case70xt. I could lift & turn skid easily with stick or boom. Also never stopped the stick digging in the same kind of soil. With that said I do need to try it in some hard stuff to see if it's the same.
The other day I was moving heavy wet soil and spun backing up a slight grade, more like a small Burm. As I spun out I tried to pull with stick but couldn't move even with posi in. Dumped loader bucket and pushed it out easily with bucket so you guys are right about the tilt! It just might be the valve for the stick then huh?