Looking to pickup a new to us tandem and came across an Alberta truck that's made it to Ontario. It's a 96 western star tandem with a 475 hp Cat 3406e, 15spd eaton, 46k rears, 12k front, single wall frame and a 16.5ft box. On paper this would work nicely for me. Would be legal for 15-16 tons, and should have lots of power to tow a float. Engine has just under 1.3 million kms, but claims to have been inframed and rear end work at just under a million, by the previous owner. Seller is asking 16k CAD (11.5k USD) Anyone got any insight on this? Are there any specific things to look for on this engine/trans?
Don't know anything about the engine or trans, but I do think that 12000lbs is a bit light for a front end. Sounds like a tractor that was converted to a dump, which is done all the time. Probably fine if it lives on the road, not sure how it would be if you were off-roading it a lot. Does it have air or spring suspension?
I was thinking that - most trucks around here have 20k fronts. With my use, it wouldn't get much off-road time. We mostly work in the city digging additions and doing landscape type work. 95% pavement would be my bet. It's got spring suspension. Any obvious ways to see if it's a converted highway truck? https://www.kijiji.ca/v-view-details.html?adId=1495080636
I don't really know enough about trucks to tell for sure, but it seems awfully long to have been a tractor. I know a lot of paving contractors near me will spec a truck as light as possible so they can haul more tonnage of asphalt, I don't know where the line is between weight and durability though. I have a 2008 Volvo 10 wheeler that has a 22000 lb front and 44 full locking rears, single heavy frame, with spring suspension, and a 15 foot body, I go off-roading all the time and it handles it well. The truck you're looking at looks like it has been well-maintained in the pictures, doesn't look like it has a lot of rust, but it's always hard to tell from the pictures. I am positive guys with more truck knowledge will chime in on this subject sooner than later…
It was, take look at how big those fuel tanks are. I would say it's too light on the front axle too, when loaded you are going to feel it when it hits the frame on some grade difference bumps or holes.
Pretty standard Western Canada straight dump spec from that era. IMO a heavy single rail is better than a double frame and I'd take that over a double frame any day of the week. Those old Stars are 2x the truck of any KW or Pete. Much better built.
Seems like it's worth a test drive then. Anyone know if it's possible to remove the second fuel tank? We've got fuel at the yard, and I can't see needing much more than 500km of range in a day.
Should be able to pull it off no problem. Should just be a matter of re-plumbing the fuel lines for 1 tank.
In the one photo it shows a inner frame liner, and the stack guards are a little tall for a factory day cab. I would tend that the frame was lengthened and the Hendrickson suspension was installed. Normally there is no need for a liner with Hendrickson. As far as fuel tanks Western Star used those as standard equipment on various models. Cat likes to see a 3406E/C15 with at least one 100 gallon tank so the fuel will cool down from return.
In the states, very few road trucks would have 46k rears and hendrickson, but like truck shop says, the hendrickson and heavy rears may have been added. Is your "landscaping" equipment going to be large enough to load it? That looks like a pretty tall sided box on it, which can be a problem for some skid loaders and mini ex's. I like the 15 speed also for a dump, it gives you a nice low gear for starting out of a hole. Should pull a pintle real nice with the big cat.
Loading truck with our equipment shouldn't be a problem, we've got high dump buckets on our ctl that we load hired triaxles with currently. Sides are about the same. That said, the box sides are a bit tall for what the truck can legally haul in dirt or gravel. Paper napkin math puts it at a 20 yard box...which is wonderful for something like grain or sawdust...I could probably cut a foot off the sides pretty easily. Save some weight and make it easier to load.
For the price range I dont think you could go wrong 3406 is a very stout engine the only thing I have seen kill them is stupidity or turning up the power above reasonable and burning them down I have a 95 kw with a 3406e and a 15 speed and it's in the top three best trucks I have ever ran The benefit of a 15 speed is you get some deep gears for working loaded but you dont sacrifice a reasonable highway speed
I've seen quite a few older trucks with the insert and Hendrickson. None stretched. Both my dad's '78 W900 and my '80 W900 were like that from factory.
Here in NB, you could only scale about 12 tonne with that front end. Hard to get a close up of the frame, but you can see the holes ahead of the front housing. So air ride or the hendrickson was slid back. Here, that front axle, and that big Cat plus the tractor protection package would be a sign of a tractor, but no sign of any fifth wheel ever being mounted on the frame though. Western Star is king here in the woods. Our float truck and a couple of dump trailer haulers are Western Steer. I think for that price it's worth a look. We have 2000 with an N14 Cummins and an 18 speed. It was a tractor but it was upset, so the bunk was cut off and they put a strait box on it. Can't haul much legally, but it is fun to drive with that big motor.
That center crossmember between the spring hangers is not a standard Hendrickson, Stars used Neway air ride because of that it's the easiest to install Hendrickson walking beam on. Because Neway used the same axle housing hangers as Hendrickson, just install the beams to the same hangers.
Those bolt holes in the frame ahead of both housings make me agree with you
Did you buy it? says it's no longer available. We just bought a 2016 M series freightliner. Tandem, set back front axle. It has a roll off deck, like the ones that move dumpsters. It came with a flat deck, and a dump box like the ones Del makes for the one tons, with the fold down sides. It also has a pintel hitch for a tag along float, as well as a reese hitch receiver so it could haul the tri axle our f 550 hauls. Originally they were going to lose the roll off and put a regular gravel box on it. It was decided to leave it for moving equipment, and working with the bobcat crew. One thing about it that makes me want to try it, is that it is an automatic. I know they are out there, but I have never tried one, and think it would be strange to drive.
Went and looked at it. Didn't buy it. Pictures were very selectively taken. Hoist was leaking like crazy, took forever to build air, had multiple air leaks. Engine was leaking oil pretty badly from the head, hood cracked in 4 places, doors did not open and shut properly. Waste gate was wired shut, exhaust broken in 3 places, and bent to hell at the top. Frame at the liner/insert was crunchy rusty, and had been ground down and air hammered flat again. Also wasn't a 475hp like he claimed. Suspension also would have needed every bushing replaced...since there was barely any rubber left in any of the bushings. Whoever guessed it was a converted tractor was right though. Guy claimed the previous owner converted it. All in all, truck looked good from far, but was far from good sadly.
Too bad. I'm not up on my Cats after 425, is the 475 the one that has the twin turbos?
Acert twins didn't come out until around 2004ish. I believe the MBN was the last single turbo C15 put into commercial trucks.
I get ten likes for the frame and suspension.
Good eye!
Test drove this 2000 Volvo WG64. 300hp with a 13 speed.20k front, 40k rears. only 430km, but it's air ride...not my first choice, but it's in great shape. Not like I'm gonna be doing much off-roading.
The old man had a '97 like that. Deep cab like that one too. Very tough trucks. Neway's a pretty decent air ride. I'd take it over any other air ride brand.
It has a 60" spread, that's good.
Would a 60" spread be better or worse for traction in a air ride set up? I've got a big spread on one of the cranes, but its a walking beam so that just means a lot of travel while still keeping the rubber on the ground. Wouldn't a bigger spread in a air ride be worse for traction, rather than having the axles closer together? That the bags can't travel as far, so its easier to spin a tire? I know that there's a lot of big spread axles used in canada and out west, I've just never been around a air ride one.
The 60" spread on air ride tends to have better traction. We had four Pete's with 60" Air Track they didn't ride as well but the drivers that were in them wouldn't trade out because those trucks were more stable in winter conditions.
Only time I have ever had an issue spinning with air ride, is if you dump, and don't dump your bags first. I don't know if it's because they all become fully extended or what. All our tandems with air are set up to dump the suspension when you open the tailgate. The dumptrailers are that way as well. I notice a lot of guys don't dump the suspension on the tractor, and you see them spinning. I always drop the suspension. Even when I drop the float to unhook the gooseneck. I am not sure where guys hear stuff. Was told I shouldn't drop the bags when I'm loaded, Well I'm going to be empty in 20 seconds. Another favorite is I don't like to lock my power divider in because it's hard on the driveline. What???? I was taught by a mechanic that as soon as I leave the pavement that locking the power divider is easier on your axles, because you are dividing the power between two axles instead of a front or a back. Oh anyway back on topic. We had a couple Volvo trucks, and they were pretty solid
A lot of drivers have zero clue. The best one is that the front/rear does all the driving and the power divider engages the 2nd axle. No idea who comes up with these strange ideas.
If you're primarily using the truck for yourself and loading with smaller equipment, the air ride is a huge help for loading. I'm also lazy and I love it for unhooking/hooking up trailer, no cranking the jack. The Volvo seems alright, it's no Western Star though! I couldn't be happier with my 92. Except for riding like a lumber wagon it's great, made much much worse by our absolute joke for what passes as a road here.
My understanding has always been that all 4 axles pull, but one axle, front or back can break traction and spin. When you engage the power divider lock, all axles pull, but in poor traction, one front, and one rear must break traction together, but still allowing your front and rear differentials to do their job in corners. Some of our trucks have the full lockup where you can choose between front or rear full lock or both.
The inter lock-locks the front drive, on locker type it locks both sides on one drive axle . Only one drive axle does the work that's why the drive tires on the right rear are always worn more than the rest. You put air to the front drive on inter- lock with Eaton or Rockwell or Daimler drive axles. On International drive axles it is the opposite, those use air to keep them unlocked.
But don't both axles pull, even in a car, until you enter a situation that causes your spider gears to allow the power to one side, like turning or spinning? When I say axle, I mean right and left side, as apposed to front and rear housings. We have a Peterbilt with eaton rearends. It always spins one front wheel, never a rear, unless you lock the divider. It has no lockup front or rear. The other trucks with rockwell rears, will spin one front, or one rear unless you lock the divider. Is that the design of the eaton over the rockwell. The internationals will also perform the same as the rockwell, spinning a front or a rear. I have wondered why international went the opposite way with the air. 4 wheel park brake with only maxis pots on the front housing? I have driven a few old macks with no switch, and they had those peanuts to engage by themselves
Really your interaxle is a diff for the diffs. Its a balance act between all 4 wheel ends. One loses traction, the other 3 still receive the same amount of torque but now its equal to what it takes to slip the wheel losing traction. When you lock the interaxle in, there is no differential action between the 2 drive axles.
This^^^ In theory all 4 corners should pull an equal load with the inter-axle diff unlocked if they all have equal traction. I have seen some that would spin a front wheel every time before the interlock was thrown in... Usually those had a Detroit locker in the rear diff. Automatic self locker. Makes a huge difference in most trucks that work off road. I've also seen disparities in tire wear between the two drive axles. Some wore the front first, some the rear first. I think that's more about wheelbase and suspension choices. Worked on a fleet of short Volvos with 4 spring that always wore the rear drivers down first. They had some longer tractors with 4 bag air leaf type that wore the front drives first. All those trucks had self lockers in the rear. Oh, another consideration, the long tractors had lift axles too.
The front differential has a power divider/compensater with interlock and can have a locker. Power runs through the input to the bull gear and pinion and the through shaft to the back drive axle. And yes both axles can spin without the interlock, but because the power runs straight through the front drive the rear axle takes the brunt. It has to do with the straightest path for torque flow.
4 wheel park brakes is exactly why IH did that. The PP valve for the spring brakes also fed the interlock valve. Set the park brake and it locked the inter axle diff.
Correcto on the 4 wheel park brakes. One other note--tires normally wear on the left front drive and the right rear drive, the right rear more than the rest. And the reason for that if one looks at which side has the long axle and which side the ring gear/ pinion relation/ direction is. The side with the long axle will always torque load that side gear first because of it's relationship with ring gear rotation and torque load. Factoid.
Well, it happened. I bought the Volvo. It's safetied, registered and ready to go make some money. Off to work Monday to haul in 100 tons of stone for a job.
Congratulations, enjoy your purchase