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www.kylesessionsdozerandag.com
Looks great! How long did it take start to finish?
Almost 2 weeks
I wish I could work in ponds that dry.
Just guessing by pics, looks to be about a 15,000 yd³ dig, not including topsoiling?
you sir are correct :notworthy ...... and we haven't had a dry spell either not long after I finished that pond.
Thanks for the pics. That's a nice looking pond. Agreed on the dry conditions, plus the stone free material.
Yair . . . ksessions . Nice neat job alright, what did you use to rip? That looks a lot like our tight yellow clay. Cheers.
Yessir we have the yellow and grayish clay in that area. I use a excavator for all my digging and coring. That allows your dozer to get a full blade of loose spoil every time.
Yair . . . ksessions Gotcha mate . . . could you elaborate on that a bit. I don't quite understand how you can use an excavator in conjunction with a dozer for production earthwork in sweet digging such as that. Cheers.
Did you balance dirt onsight or haul some off ? Nice work , brushed off nicely !
I only use the Dozer for sloping, pushing loose soil, and finishing. All the hard digging and loosening packed soil is done with the excavator. Not too common of a practice but it allows me to run a smaller Dozer I can still haul around with a 1-ton and still build semi large ponds.
All the trashy topsoil is buried on the back side of damn. The clean stuff is used to coat the clay for vegetation growth. I didn't haul any.
What do you use for compaction?
Yair . . . I believe I jumped to a few wrong conclusions . . . I assumed the hole was dug with the dozer. I did see an excavator in the back ground in one of the pics but, with no sign of any trucks, it was an alien object on, what to me appears a simple dozer job. The poster mentions "almost a fortnight" for construction . . . meaningless gobbledy gook unless he posts machines used and hours logged. Making such nice going into excavator dirt seems an odd approach, front to back dozing would probably have been the cheapest option . . . complicated a little if there was a statutory requirement for a core trench. Next would be a tractor drawn scoop or pan. As always though it is a case of run what you brung and the poster obviously didn't have those options. I say again, the finished job looks excellent but I wouldn't like to pay the bill. Cheers.
Scrub I believe he probably dug it like I dig mine. Started in the middle and worked his way around? Then, use the dozer to keep working the dirt down and around. If all he had onsite was the 5K and the hoe, I'd be a little nervous about the compaction being up to par. I'd probably be ok with dozer compaction with at least a 20-25 ton dozer on narrow pads. Anyway you slice it, it sure looks pretty.
Yair . . . Gotcha Shimmy1 . The original poster has done a fine neat job . . . I'm just a picky old SOB too set in my ways. (Big grin) This again is an excellent example of how different folks in different areas "think different" and achieve fine results with different equipment and methods . . . not knocking in any shape or form, the results speak for themselves but, as indicated, I wonder at the cost. As I said, I got the bull by the teat first off and assumed he had pushed it out in a couple of weeks with the little bare azzed dozer . . . my bad. I do agree about possible compaction issues with the wide pads on the little jigger. Cheers.
Yair . . . Going a little off topic but ksessions , the original poster mentions he stays with the small dozer because he can shift it with his one ton . . . these blokes took on some decent jobs back in the late sixties and seventies with small gear for precisely that reason. The machines were portable and I recently posted a picture somewhere of their three D4's on a semi pulled by a (I think) a D series Ford . . . stumbled across a picture of them at play which may be of interest to some. Cheers.
Good job ksessions. Nice and neat finished product. Scrub I would've used a similar set up to dig as well, although I would've put the 953 in the mix to bulk move the material out of the deeper cut so the dozer could shape the spoils around the pond. Like you said it's "run watcha brung". As far as compaction goes and I'm obviously just going from the pics, it looks like the majority of the pond was cut with the spoils wasted around the perimeter.
Yair . . . Been thinking about this and I can absolutely see where you fellers are coming from. It would be interesting to see the results of two side by side properly costed holes, one using a dozer and front to back/slot techniques and the other baling down to depth with an excavator and pushing away with a dozer. The dozer could still work slots but if the job was set up right he would be doing most of the pushes on level ground . . . in fact he would only be pushing adverse grade when constructing the bank versus uphill all the way when using "conventional" methods. It would be real good in iffy weather, if the site was cleaned up tidy it could be kept drained and, compared to the hassles with a dozer it would be a piece of cake with the excavator to install a sump and pump. See . . . you can teach an old dog new tricks. (big grin) Cheers.
When these kind of jobs get expensive is when the spoil has to be moved more than a couple hundred feet. That new pond I dug this summer was around 1800 yds. Moving the first dirt three times, then a bunch twice, I figure I probably moved maybe 500 yards of it only once. Based on that, if I had a dozer pushing the spoil away, I know i can move around 2500-3000 yds per 12 hour day with my 210. To construct a pond like ksessions here, I'd figure about 70 hours (this is assuming 15,000 yds of excavation and 2000 topsoiling). By hours, it'd cost around $20,000. If I had to bid it, I'd probably look for $1.25-1.50 per yard, depending on how busy I am. If I was building it, the dozer wouldn't push much of anything uphill. I'd pull it all with the hoe, and the dozer would just run around and make it pretty. Edit: If the dirt was fit though, I'd for sure dig it with the scraper. Probably take about the same time, one machine instead of two, and I'd charge the same.
Thats cool, how long do you reckon it took all 4 of them to scrape out that hole? Looks pretty good size.
Hey guys!! I'll start off by saying all of your comments are correct. Haha. Compaction is not an issue if you work the dirt in right. Everything is taken out and built up in layers. I've hit 98% compaction with a Dozer alone on tested building pads. It can be done. But being this was a pit pond the majority of the dirt was dug out instead of getting your depth with a large dam. Also it was drawn to spec since NRCS was funding some of the project. Shimmy1 you're correct on price. It's a $20k hole all day long. I got it done for $17k. My thinking is if you're a efficient operator on a machine you can make any job timely and cost effective for the most part. I had a 210 komatsu hoe on that job but recently purchased a new Cat 323F. Both the Dozer and hoe running a hard 10hrs I would burn 80-90 gallons, the same as a D6T. Like CM1995 said "you run what you brung". Y'all have inspired me to purchase a GoPro and shoot some footage of my next pond dug with a hoe and Dozer. Ya'll can then see the process and not condemn me as crazy. Haha
Congrats on the new hoe, how do you like the 323F? I read where that machine has the grade control system where you can set % on a ditch line with a rotary laser and dig to grade. It also has a layers function where you can set ditch grade and then bedding grade. This would speed up pipe laying, the ditch man would only need to check grade once before the pipe is set.
Yair . . . ksessions This has been an educational thread . . . it sure would be interesting to see some footage and all the best with the new hoe. Cheers.
The Cat Trimble GCS Flex system is pretty cool, this guy has made a few very informative videos about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWDG9zLWOLI
Man I love the 323F one of the fastest hoes I've been on. Haven't got to play with grade control yet. Been clearing. The GoPro is happening haha. As soon as we get some dry weather where I can dig another pond y'all will get some video
shimmy1 said.. " If I had to bid it, I'd probably look for $1.25-1.50 per yard, depending on how busy I am." in the old days these jobs always worked out that they would bid it for what the fuel cost/gal was. interesting.. that is about what your rate/yard bid would be..
That is kind of interesting, olddirt. Never thought of it that way. How I figured it was estimate how many hours it would take me to do it, calculate out how much it would cost if it was billed by the hour, then add 10%. If I had a month or so backlog of work and wasn't really looking for more, I'd probably tell them $1.50. Maybe even a little more. A lot of these bid jobs, for me anyway, are kind of tied in to how bad I want/need the work.
Interesting but that method would depend on stable diesel pricing, something we haven't experienced in the last couple of years.
That's a nice combination . Buddy of mine started out with a JD 450 high lift back in the late 1970's . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=11298895 Couple years later they bought a used JD 690 B hoe . http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9416787 They would take on about any type of task with those two machines and a dump truck . What's interesting as we approach the year 2016 that combo still works . Many times on jobs I will send a tracked skid loader & excavator . Excavator handles the rough bulk work & skid loader will polish it off . HeavyEquipmentForums Keep up the good work ksessions ! Web site looks good as well .
well, when fuel goes up so does your cost/yard. It still looks pretty close to me, unless you would rather lose money!
Thank you td25c!! The excavator is a very diverse work horse. It fits many applications for myself.
Very nice job, gentle slopes and sweeping turns.
Probably something to that oldirt on bulk dirt jobs , good point .:thumbsup I grew up in the late 1970's & early 80's and remember bulk dirt figured at 75 cents to a dollar a yard moved. We all move dirt in different ways but fill the tank at cost the same to get the job done . Fuel cost per yard of dirt on my motor scraper would be around 15 cents on the dollar with 3$ diesel fuel . Dozer is about the same only it won't move it as far as the scraper for that money . Barley soda and potato chips are pretty stable . Might have to figure out a chart for dirt moved with those commodities . Small grading jobs go off the chart as far as fuel cost / per yard moved .
Wow. Those pictures are of one truly epic pond project. The sheer scale of it is mind-blowing for this small scale pond digger, and I can only dream of carrying out an excavation of this scale. Pulling up a chair for this show, while eating my heart out with envy. Ksessions may I suggest that you post your pictures on the Pond Boss website, which is devoted entirely to pond construction. Readers of that website will certainly appreciate a chance to admire this amazing work of earth-shaping art. http://forums.pondboss.com/
Looks like a great spot for a deer stand....nice work...
Thanks Marsh Mutt! I'll check that site out. Haven't heard of it
nice looking pond. good job. I have a simple minded question, or maybe an observation. Folks will claim to have a pond ____feet deep. Does one measure the actual water depth or do they measure the depth of the hole. When I built mine I always measured actual water depth which of course can vary some. example; 12' during dry time and 13'+ during spring or wet season. The reason I'm throwing this out there is because I have seen 12' holes that will only hold 8-9' of water, but the person will claim they have a 12' deep pond. There is a pond down the road that is probably a 15-18' hole but only has 3-4' of actual water depth{I'm sure something must have happened to the lining** IMO until fixed this would only be a 3-4' deep pond.
maddog yes it is water depth. I get my base shot at the spillway. As you mentioned in dry times the maintained depth will be around 14'.
Thanks Ksessions, I thought maybe I was the odd guy out on this one. Have had a lot of folks through the years tell me the depth was measured by the depth of the hole. This would be fine if they say dry depth, not water depth