98 NH 555e came both ways some with 2 batteries and some with one. The manual says needs min of 800 CCA to do the job. Mine came with 2. Just bought this machine and was wondering about removing one of the batteries as I've already bought a 1000 CCA battery for it. Other that doing away with the extra cables, any problems of doing this? Not real sure why they offered them both ways unless for colder climates? Thanks, JKF
My 2005 LB75.B came with the 2 battery system. New Holland calls it a cold weather starting package. It doesn't seem to start any better in cold weather than a single battery system. It might crank longer if the engine does not want to start quickly.
I did the same with my case had the cold weather package 2 batteries took out the 2 of them when they got weak and put just one back in with a high CCA @0 one in there place . and it's been working fine.
hey guys im new to these forums so i cant start my own thread, but i thought my question might fit in this thread. i just bought my first backhoe, a 580se. it has a pair of 24 volt batteries in it. im sure they are 24 volts each, i pulled them and tested both. none of the guages work and the batteries are real weak, i want to replace them. my service manual says its supposed to be a 12 volt system. i've spent a good amount of time searching around but cant find a reason for it to have 24 volt batteries in it. anyone able to give me some advice on buying a new set of batteries?
Hello wrecd, I would normaly encourage someone to get there probationary status over and start their own thread, but your situation is slightly related to this thread. First of all, I highly doubt you have 24V batteries, you more than likely have 12V batteries wired in series, making 24V at the starter, if in fact that is what you have. I have never seen a 580E that's 24V, I can't say they never made one though. Every E I've ever seen is 12V, and yours should be. One possible explanation that your machine is wired 24V would be the previous owner noticed the starter turning slow, so they wired it up 24V to spin starter. Which would be STUPID, but it's possible. The result would be a good cranking starter getting cooked each time it cranks the engine, fried gauges, and roasted alternator. Your machine would start Ok with one 12V / group 31 / 1000 CCA battery. But since your in PA, and obviously have space for 2 batteries, I would suggest using 2 of the above mentioned batteries wired parallel. The starters on the B series Cummins of this vintage pull some amps, 2 batteries would help greatly starting engine on cold winter mornings. Welcome to the forum wrecd. :usa
I just replaced the batteries in my 580K with 2 group 31 batteries and went over all the connections. The grounds are real important to have good bare metal contact. It cranks over so fast now I should hardly need any ether even when it is cold. Every Case I have been around is 12 volt. Sounds like someone stuck 2 used batteries in it without checking the voltage. A picture of your battery setup will confirm this.
thanks for the advice guys. i took a picture of my batteries. i think i'll go with your suggestion ATCOEQUIP and get two 12V / group 31 / 1000 CCA batteries. my only problem now is i put the battery from my RV in the backhoe just to see if it would turn over and ended up as if i didn't have a battery in it at all. i measured 12v at the starter, alternator and key but if i turn key to the on position the electrical system goes to 0 volts :Banghead i even get the same results even after putting the old batteries back in. i'm not sure what i screwed up, so far i have tested all the circuit breakers i could find. guess i'll have a project for this comming weekend
Are you kidding me! I have never seen this!
The batteries in the pic are wired in parallel for 12 volts if I am not mistaken.
i bought it from a guy who sells big farm equipment, so i would guess bill was right, someone just grabbed 2 batteries and put them in :beatsme . i didnt even know 24 volt batteries existed till i got the machine.
I'm talking about he's got a tester connected to one battery and it reads 25V! Someone please tell me I'm wrong, but I've never seen a 24V lead acid battery.
wrecd, you have a number of issues going on with your machine. I will freely admit I can be completely wrong, but I've never seen a 24V automotive type battery, nor have I ever seen a 24V Case loader/hoe. It's going to be a process for us to go through to sort out your issues. First of all, we'll get back to the batteries and cables, check your alternator for any info like an ID tag to see what voltage output it is, 12 or 24V. If you can't find any info, I suggest you take it to an alternator shop and have it checked. The reason I say this stems from the premise that your machine should be 12V. If it has a 12V alternator, and the batteries have been wired 24V, your alternator is now fried. And starter may be as well. We have to get your system in proper voltage order before we can proceed to any other issues. Again, this is assuming Case didn't make a 24V loader/hoe.
if both those batteries are the same then they are wired in series. Do both batteries show the same voltage. I would get the serial number and call a dealer, I know most can tell from the numbers if anything custom was ordered. I also have never seen a 24 volt battery. Looks like you have stickers on that battery does it say 12V or 24V on any of them. They could just be severly over charged if they where connected in parrlell and not series. Here is a link to explain the differnece: http://www.nyc-arecs.org/Connecting_Batteries_and_Chargers_in_Series_and_Parallel.pdf
Looks like group 24 or group 27 batteries, hard to tell in pics, like CinOK said it should read group(part #) on the label as well as voltage. Once we get the voltage issue sorted out, you need to fix those battery cables, those quick repair terminals on the postive post are a problem waiting to happen. You should have the ground cable going to a frame ground point, and then a cable going from there to ground on starter. Be sure and check these ground connections for proper/clean connection. But the first thing you have to do is determine your alternator operation and voltage. Before you purchase group 31 batteries, make sure they will fit. A 31 is the same width as a 24 and 27, but they're 13 inches long and about 3/4 inch higher.
thanks for all the replies guys, i really appreciate all the help. i got a chance to get down to the farm today and checked the alternator, it's a bosch 14v according to the label on the alternator. i couldn't read the numbers on the voltage regulator maby that drops the volts back down to 12? picture quality is sorta bad, but it definatly says 14v on the label. on the case parts website it's listed as an optional alternator. it looks like there were 3 available to choose from, a delco 12v 42amp or 63amp and the bosch 12v 65amp. there was only one label on the battery that had any numbers on it the left numbers say 24-775 and item# 12 the ones on the right lists the CA and CCA if the image is too blurry to read. it's driving me nuts trying to figure why i can't get power while the key is in acc or on position. once i turn the key the whole electrical system drops to 0volts. it worked untill i took out the old batteries well anyway, im looking forward to any ideas you guys may have. thanks in advance.
Sounds like you might have abad relay Some alt that are 12v may say 14v a good output for an alt is 13.7 volts. You could also have a fried switch I would put in a 12vbatt that reads 12v just one then check you voltages across your ignition switch if you are lucky the switch might be marked with use of each terminal. Also a bad groung will play hell with eletrical system
OK , before this project spirals out of control, here is some information and a few things to do. The batteries pictured look to be ( size ) group 24 ( common car battery ) . They are going to be 12 volt nominal total , 2 volts per cell. ( more on this later ) A lead acid battery can only make a max of 2 VPC no matter how large the cells are, in order to get more voltage ( pressure ) you must connect them in series where one cells positive pole feeds the next cells negative ( like a single string with beads one after another ) Your batteries will have 6 cells, look closely at the sides and you will see ripples where each cell is divided. I have seen a 24 V car sized battery,it had 12 caps ( 12 cells ) but this was on a manhole service trailer ( power, hot air / fresh air / compressed air ) I'm guessing it was built with leftover military parts as 24V is mil standard. Use your meter to check something that you know is 12 V , it's going to read 25 V, toss meter. A digital meter isn't always more accurate than a needle type. Get access to a good meter, if you are going to do this kind of thing on even a semi regular basis, spend the $ 125 or so on a automotive style Fluke ( brand ) meter. Make sure the batteries are wired NEG to NEG to tractor ground, and POS to POS to the starter terminal. This will give you 12 V with 2 12 V batteries. Make sure the ground wire is bolted to rust/paint free metal ( engine block usually ), make sure the starter bolts to the engine with rust free metal to metal contact. ( To go even further, make sure the field housing has a good ground to the nose cone, but we will hold off on that because it involves starter disassembly) The battery terminals need to be clean and shiny. However be sure the entire surface is clean, just quickly scraping it will leave the appearance of shine, but you are really just seeing the shiny valleys and corroded peaks. Lead oxidizes leaving a hard non conductive coating. Use a wire brush to clean the posts and a pen knife to cut the oxide from the cable ends. The oxide is pretty thin so no need to gouge metal. The positive cable ends are the bolt on type, take them apart, clean the wire end and terminal. Also untape the splice where the red wires come together, there is a chance of poor connection there. Just because 2 wires are bolted together does not mean they conduct electricity. Now, for electrical system voltages. A 6 cell lead acid battery has a nominal ( round about ) voltage of 12. A fully charged battery that has been sitting for 4 or more hours will read 12.66 V, a completely discharged battery will read 11.70 V. Running a battery to 11.7 on a regular basis will damage it 12 is a better lower voltage. In order for a battery to accept a charge, we must feed it a voltage ( pressure ) greater than it's nominal voltage. Older batteries with caps worked will with 13.2 - 13.9 or so. Newer maintenance free batteries need 13.7 to 14.5 or so. This is why your alternator regulator says 14V. If a battery is taken off a charge and voltage tested, it will read high until things stabilize, wait 4 hours or so then retest. Being your voltage dropped to zero when the key was turned, a corroded connection is a likely cause of the no crank.
I agree with IH on his reply. Do you have the meter set on a multiplier setting? No matter what you do get out a wire wheel and start CLEANING everything up. take the ground loose from wherever it bolts to the tractor and clean down to bare metal. A wire wheel in a drill does a good job. So does scraping with the end of a flat file. Next clean up all the ends and disassemble the terminals from the cable and clean them up. Clean the wire down real good before you bolt the ends back on the cable. If you clean up the battery terminals real good and slow charge them at 40 amp setting for about 2 hours each you should have enough charge to load test them. Most parts houses will do this for you. good batteries and good connections will get you running again.
Did it start fine before you started working on the batteries? I'd jump the starter. If it works, you don't have to think about it. If it has a fuel shut-off solinoid on the injector pump you can run a hotwire to it and it should start. You have to remove the wire to shut down so use disconnects if you try it. CinOK mentioned a relay. We just put a "cab relay" in our sk. It works the starter and fuel shut off. A coulple of the switch terminals were burnt but the switch was ok. I found an online service manual for our sk for $10 and it had a wiring diagram that helped.
i want to thank all you guys for all the advice. i jumped the starter and it worked fine, then i just started cleaning all the contacts with a wire brush. there was alot of corrosion on most of the contacts. i got to the plug where the engine wiring harness plugs into the main wiring harness. the male end of the plug that goes from the ignition to the battery terminal was disintegrated to the point that most of it was still stuck in the female part of the plug. i ran a new wire and everything works great again as for the batteries they still read around 25v or so. since i plan on buying new batteries anyhow i'm not too worried about them. so one last question for now. should i get the type 31 batteries or stick with the type 24 . i bought an owners manual and a service manual, but neither say what type to use. thanks again guys!
You'll get best results for cold weather starts with group 31 batteries. They're around 1000 CCA and a lot of reserve capacity. The Bosch starters on those Cummins engines pull some amps, good batteries and very good cables/connections are important. Just make sure two group 31 batteries will fit in your battery box before you purchase them. Here's a link to a size chart. Group 31 is at the bottom of chart. http://www.rtpnet.org/teaa/bcigroup.html
I just came across this old thread while doing a search and thought I'd add my 2 cents. My 580K has 2 12 volt batteries wired in parallel. My excavator is 24 volt but it has 2 12 volt batteries wired in series. But, some small planes are 24 volt systems and have single batteries. That's what I thought of when I saw that battery reading. I have a 24 volt charger/booster that I got from the maintenance guy at the airport who would jump start all the planes that wouldn't start. He was selling all his tools when he retired but no one would buy it because it was mostly for 24 volts although it does have a single 12 volt setting, too, like most 12 volt charger boosters have a 6 volt setting also. I got a hell of a deal on it.
Interesting
If you use that same meter and check the batt in your car, what do you get? Joe H
Dude, that thread was from '09 chances are that meter is already in the landfill.