ive read a lot here about some equipment, mainly , euclid-terex stuff being powered by the detroit 2- stroke diesel!everyone says it was way loud!but made a ton of horsepower!some guys said they loved that scream of power!question is, did those 2-strokes run for long hours? or did they wear out soon like a gas 2 stroke does? i know gas dirt bike motors and chain saw motors and the like running in the 2 stroke phase, have about half the time of life!
Two stroke gas engines (bikes, chain saws) are in no way like the two stroke Detroit, only in that they are a two stoke engine, that's where the similarity ends. The Detroit has a life equal to any other engine with proper service. Some Detroit models were "noisier" than other models, like the 6V-53 as opposed to a 6-71, I'm not sure why that is. I think the Detroit being inherintly noisy compared to other engines might be because they were a dry liner engine where other diesels have coolant surrounding the piston liners which would dissipate some of the noise of combustion. Could also have to do with the fact it's firing diesel everythime the piston comes up as opposed to every other time with a 4 stroke diesel. They just sound like they're running 900 mph for that reason. Anyone who has operated Detroit's will most likely tell you they're unique among engines as, at the same time, you hate them but you love them. For me, ain't nothing sounds like a 6-71 pegged on the governor grading a hill.
I think they were a good engine for thier time.It's an old desighn.They were used in world war two in ship's,tank's ect.They make good power for the cubic inch,They dont last quite as long as a 4 cycle but do well if taken care of.they are not to loud if you have a good muffler.
Hey 25c, I saw your post and just happend to remember that your Grove has Detroits. Just wanted to remind you in case no one told you, you should use SAE 40 oil in your Detroits. Multigrade oils are not the preferred oil for them. They have friction modifiers that can't handle the load pressure's induced on the oil by the Detroit piston scraper rings. If you've been using multigrade oil, don't fall out of your chair, just start using SAE 40 on your next oil change.
Good evening ATCOEQUIP.I have always used 30-weight oil in the detroit's,they dont seem to use much between oil changes.I like the old detroit's,if you take care of them they will take care of you.
Ah, that's good. It seems you were "schooled well". :notworthy
Yeah i got half way down 30 weight oil ..no question ... Loud ...nothing is quite like a Detriot firing up on a cold winter's day ..half burnt fuel oil fills the air ..and slowly but surly the light's brighten up ,governor begin's catch up ,, and that ol thing just a screamin with atticipation of a new day dawning ... Man i love those engine's
Jimmys Drove an Allis Chalmers HD 14 with a 6-71 and a D8 1H in my early days, both had about the same HP but as soon as the revs got down on the jimmy it just died where as the D8 would lugg down till you could here each pot fire and still keep going no doubt the 8 inch stroke in the Cat had something to do with it.
Back when we were running them Detroit did send out a bulletin telling everyone to switch to straight 40 from 30. I believe a large part of the noise is from the blower and intake. Run one one without an air filter and you'll see, it will scare you if you rev it up. The turbos and more modern intake and exhaust systems quieted them down lots.
One thing I forgot to ad was the wide range of engines detroit offerd.Diffrent configurations,such as an in line 6-71 or a v-6 6-71 arangement,left or right hand rotation.Bottom line was if a company produced a vehical big or small,general motors had an engine that would power it.
when good jimmy's go bad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqQVk3WV2PU
Jimmy power I agree with Komatsu 150 on the intake/blower noise/muffler subject.When working on our 1978 Link-Belt 5800 with 8v71 power,we would start it with the exhaust open every now and then.Ear protection mandatory for that event. Dominion
I want one of these. I am sure that it has been posted before, but I still like it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0o1o5W_f6o
That's cool. Look's like they done a good job on the coversion.
Man that is so redneck. I love it! :drinkup
Most of our fleet of Michigan 275 loaders back in the 1980's had cummins 855 engines but a couple had the detroit diesel engine. Now I know everyone has their prefered engines for different reasons but I found the detroit engines far superior to the cummins.We'd often be called out to a dead 275 only to find a large hole in the block on the cummins where the detroit was a very hard working engine which gave us very little trouble (apart from a ringing in the ears !). The Terex/Euclid range of machines used to use the detroit engine a lot and the older ones could be heard miles away because for some reason they were rarely fitted with silencers......ahhh music !
i plowed snow with a 275 michigan with a d.d. it was fun doing residential cul de sacs at 2:30am and seeing all the lights come on
detroit engine I have had great luck with detroits-As a small time gravel guy I have found machines powered by these engines to be the best bang {scream} for the buck-I don't run them all day long like a big operator would have to do, but they work good, are easy to work on and parts are easy to find-if you ever need them.
that great detroit scream! in fairness to the rest of you guys , i love the noise of drag cars! but in the name of heavy equipment ,dad and i were on a job about 5 years ago. dad was runnin a komotsu dozer, he said was d-6 sized! after a lifetime of runnin cats, he said this is a nice machine!!!!!!!! after him tellin me for years , that euclid, international, j.d. dont make it ! suddenly said komotsu is a good machine!
detroit scream! they dug out a pond here recently for flood purposes in the last year! it was a city/ county/ idea to fix things!the pond was huge and i could hear the screamin detroit! i would never say , although ,the onlly dozer doin the push ,was a d-6 and something green!!!!!!!! i look forward to reply!
Heres a video of mine, its a 73 Chevy with a 4-53 direct drive. http://www.vimeo.com/2987098
music to my impaired ear drums.... Stock
I know here is northcentral pa there is alot of loggers that dont want to give up there old timberjacks with detroit's. There is a logging operation about 3-5 miles away from our shop and e can hear the old detroits echoing through the hills in the mornings. I have heard of loggers saying they would buy a new skidder if they could get A detroit in one.
I put off running this at night because of the 4/71 in it. even though I have changed the muffler to a larger one it is still to loud. Ear plugs are a must since I had my ear operation and have gotten 70% of my hearing back in one ear. I use it to plow 4 trailer parks when the snow pack gets thick enough to warrant it. I think it would be fun to run through one at 2:AM just so I would get a complante that I was plowing to much. LOL
how does it pass emissions? Does it's age give it a pass?
It shouldnt 73 Chevy with a 4-53 ....Chevy never (to My knowledge) equipped a truck with that engine .....the Emmoisions are based on ...year ,make model and the factory engine... Some places have a Hot-rod clause that applies to a modified vehicle... My brother never had to get another test on his Jeep after he installed a 3.1L chevy engine and drive train in it ..The engine in a letter from Mopar..and handed over to the licensing dept., was never factory installed in any production model of that Jeep...
Here’s a little Detroit music. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1YXx4kytNU
A detroit dragster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rve2Z3xZ02A Detroit puller http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-lRXRLWVRg Big detroit burn out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6qC9UaxlnA The best detroit videos on youtube!! Turn your speakers up way up!
Here’s another great video of a Detroit at work in a dozer. Huh did you say something??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxV-ALX60Mw
2 stroke jimmys: That is a nice video Truckie... :thumbsup I'd like to see what that pass looked like, I'll bet it was as smooth as silk. The guy must have more than just a little seat time... I could hardly see any up and down movement of the blade... I think he even made a shift into second, right after he started the push... :cool2 Thanks for the link, Truckie. OCR...
No problem OCR. Glade you liked it. Here is another. Same style dozer but really shows it working. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdcj33G3P7U
2 stroke jimmys: Here's one for you... a 2-51... I think??? I used it to power a Hyd. pump on a drill fill. OCR
Yep. thats a 2-53.Whats the hydraulic power unit running?I cant tell in the picture.
There are 2-51 detroits. They are ported with no valve train. Blower does all the work.
quantum, are you sure you don't want to edit your post? There is a "valve cover" on top of that engine...that would be to access and service the "exhaust valve" rockers and the injector rockers.
No I don't! Do you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_Series_51 For clarification I'm not saying the one pictured is a "51" I was just pointing out that there is such a configuration. This has some pretty good info on them also http://www.oldmarineengine.com/discus/messages/3/102530.html Very rare and very sought after.
I wasent going to say anything about the 2-51 detroit without valve's because I new another member would clear it up.Well said .
Wow, that's some good research quantum, I didn't know that. Very good! But in my ignorance, please allow me the liberty to say; I attempted to respond to your post (albiet flawed) in a respectful manner. The exclamation point you placed after "No I don't" doesn't extend the chivalry of respect on your part, to say the least. And, at the most, that exclamation point jettisons respect by using a degree of sarcasim on your part with the question "Do you?". Now, would you respectfully like to edit "that" post? We're all here to learn something new, that we did not know. You have exibited one of these gems of knowledge. But it was a strange way that you presented this nugget of knowledge with your original post that describes a method of operation that is totally strange to all of us old Detroit hands.
The engine pictured looks like a 53 series deroit.It's possible that GM expierimented with a scavenging type 2 cycle,I would not doubt it.It may not have went in to production .This is interesting because my airplane uses a rotax 2 cylinder 2 cycle engine that uses the scavanging system.I have never herd of or seen a 51 scavenging detroit engine,but that dose not mean it did not exist.
A little harmless fun poking is not disrespectful. Just imagine that you are holding a beer and I'm sitting next to you holding a beer smiling. Most of the time trying to interpret sarcasim in text is a lost cause But the above attitude usually clears things up nicely :drinkup If I'm trying to be an ass you will know it.
Very well, quantum. I'm glad to see your wisely using smiley's in your last post to clarify what is subject to interprtetation when one only uses text and punctuation to make a salient and valid point. :notworthy
Anyone seen my boots??:shf
still, the best ive seen of the 2-stroke diesel, makes me wonder why engineers didnt bring this concept forward, to meet the times! two stroke is still a great concept! getting twice the h.p. for the wieght!
2 stroke jimmys: Is it... or... Is it not, a 2-51??? Well, ah... that depends... on, ah... what the definition of jimmys is/are!... :lmao Could be a DD... Could be a GM... But Not a Yamaha... Yes sir, there is a cover... but what exactly for??... ... Awww... I think you was a'scared to... Man, I hope I got all the smilies right... :duh That was all in fun, now... so don't go throwing rocks... LOL Serious now... I was about 10 or so when we bought the engine. It was installed on a pump for an irrigation well, hence the PTO. PTA-41053... probably refers to the Power Take-off Adapter number. The S/N is 301335. DD# probably stands for Detroit Diesel... but I'm not sure. OCR
I think it's a nice little unit. I'll bet it has a unique sound.
I"d say yours is a 2-53 for two reasons .The valve cover is fastened down by phillips head screws which is common on 53's.I noticed the casting number on the block started with 51 .I took some pics of my 4-53 in the grove this evening.It's casting number also started with 51.I looked at the links quantum500 posted,very interesting.The 51 series detroit must have been an early version with very limited production numbers.ATCOEQUIP and I will eat a small piece of crow,but dont worry we wash it down with apple pie & beer.Good information quantum500.
2 stroke jimmys: Seems to sound like all the rest, ATCOEQUIP. And I'm still not sure what it is. I was going by the number stamped on the block... 5125395. I thought the 51 was the series, and the 2 equated to the number of cylinders. I had also looked at the link from Wiki., but didn't post it. Here's a quote from that link. Here's another link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM_engines OCR
OCR, are your looking at that casting number in your third pic? If so, that's not the model number. There's a flat spot just to the left of that casting number that has 3 bolt holes, I'd say you'll find your model and s/n there, might have to remove some paint. It looks like a 53 to me. Here's you a PDF link to the 53 series model number identification. If you scroll to the bottom of the page you'll see an illustration of what it looks like. The model # is on top, the s/n is below the model #. http://www.powerlinecomponents.com/literature/detroit_diesel/il53_model_chart.htm Let me know if for some reason the link doesn't work, we'll go to plan B.
2 stroke jimmys: I think you're right 25c, that's what I thought it was too... I just didn't see any thing about a 2 cylinder, 53 series... :thumbsup OCR
25c, I looked at the pics of your engine, check that same flat spot I mentioned to OCR, just below #1 cyl exhaust manifold port. You should find the model and s/n there. The PDF link show the configuration of the 2, 3, and 4 cyl 53 series arrangement.
2 stroke jimmys: Yup, ATCOEQUIP... I think you're right too... must be a 2-53. OCR...
Mine is a 4-53 with valves for sure.I have never seen or heard of a detroit without valves until this thread.I would like to see more pictures of the scavenging type 51 with the injector cover removed.51 sounds like a rare bird for sure.
If you find those numbers, there's your proof. That PDF link shows you all the variations of the series. It's also a good reference for counter, it kinda shows why the Detroit was so popular with equipment mfg's, the Detroit could be configured to run in any arrangement except inside-out!
Listen for your self. A 4-51....not a 2-51. Gives you a good idea of what it sounds like. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rwwF3x9ymU&feature=related I don't think that one pictured above is a 51 series.
I have the complete 4-51 service manual on pdf if anyone is interested.
Cool!
We need a picture of a 51 series detroit with the injecter cover off ,so we can all see how it worked.
Here you go
Good pictures.I always liked pictures & cutaway views of the engines in the older manuals.Do you have any pictures of the "51" in a vehical or vessel quantum500?
Wow, that's cool. I have some pics of a 4-51 somewhere but that's the first time I've ever seen a cutaway.
In earlier thread on the Antique Cat site they showed a 51 series Detroit. Those engines were pretty much experimental and really didn't work well in anything. If you have anything made after the mid sixties and probably the early sixties, it will be of the 53 and 71 series. The engine I've seen pictured in this thread are 53 series. The edge bolt down stamped sheet metal valve cover was the signature of the 53 series. The 71 series used the hand hold bolts in the center of the valve covers until they came out with the cast covers on the 92 series. All I can say about the Detriots was I liked to work on them and its a good thing I can read nowdays. If I had to rely on my ears I would probably have been bear bait a thousand years ago.
My take on the 51 series was that GM wanted a cheaper-to-make smaller version of the 71 series. One of the cost-cutting measures was the elimination of the valvetrain, but they couldn't get it to work so they redesigned it with exhaust valves and voila!- the 53 series was born. DOES THAT SOUND RIGHT TO YOU, JOHN? CAN YA HEAR ME?
I have heard that the exact opposite is true. The 51 was actually better in many ways than the 53 that replaced it. Great fuel economy, low maintenance, and good longevity. Plus low cost to buy during its time. It was actually produced for nine years so not getting it to work wasn't really an option. Many old detroit buffs say that it was the best engine that detroit ever produced. Weather or not that is true I have no idea. I have never personally been around one. I will say that if it did work well it is probably the cheapest engine ever designed.
Hmmmm, 9 years of production, that's a lot longer than I would have guessed. Wonder how many were actually produced? An old Detroit mechanic friend of mine is the only one I've ever known to have actually been around one, and he didn't think too much of it. In fact, he's the guy who told me about GM switching to the 53 to address the 51's shortcomings, but that's only one man's opinion.
Regarding noise difference as in a 6V-53 compared to a 6-71, the 53 Series uses a two blade rotor in the blower, whilst the 71's have a three blade rotor. The two blade with the intake plumbing removed will knock the old ear drums around.
yep about 5 miles away depending on the wind and we ran straight pipe so it was very loud. Ears ringing wasn't even a factor until I joined the navy and worked on F-14 Tomcats and A-7 Corsair II's (SLUF) Now the ears aren't as sharp as they once were.:eek2