I'm looking at buying a tri axle dump and this kenworth T800 has a neway air ride set up this is my only concern is the air ride. Even if u dump the bags how unsteady is it can u dump on much of an angle at all?
I've had an air ride dump since '91 ...... as you say you will have to dump the air-bags, for protection of the bags as well as stability dumping .... especially once it is sitting on the stoppers that are built into bags ...if the bags are sitting at ~70lbs which should be about legal 17k on the drives with the set back f/a ... (there should be a gauge in the dash that shows bag pressure ... it acts as an on board scale once you learn how to read it)... when the load shoots out of the box the air bags will become a super length, possibly stretching too far and tearing ..... But as in any dump truck, it comes down to the drivers discretion as too what is too off angle, especially if you have a sticky load, that's where the T-800 shines w/neway ... Kenworth has put a manual dump valve, in dash, that is super fast exhausting, virtually no lag time to dump the air out of the bags ..... you'll probably be leary tipping the first few times when slightly off angle, but on the level no differance Don't know if this will help you ??? .. but I will never own a dump without Air-ride, YOU WILL Love it especially when empty it'll ride like a p/u ..... none of that tipical bang-crash-thump stuff as with walking beams or springs ..... it'll reduce alot of wear and tear on the whole rig ..... cheers
Just my opinion, from a owner of dump trucks I would make sure its the 8 bags system, not 2 bags on each axle I would make sure, when you dump the bags, it stops on the stops, not above them (check it on level ground) I have owned 3 dump trucks with air ride and I had problems with drivers, worried about turning the truck over. It does have a different feel going around a sharp curve loaded. There are alot of dump trucks out there, with air ride and they do ride alot better, than walker beam I think it really takes a owner operator, to make them work better. If a driver is used to walker beam, most of them are going to complain about air ride swaying Then you have the worry about a air bag getting a hole in it, this bothers me, because I haul asphalt and if anything puts you out of service, the asphalt may set up. Just another something to worry about Make sure the hinge pins, are tight, for the body Just curious, how much are trucks like this going for, in your area. In my area, eastern NC (USA) if the truck is real nice like the one you are looking at, it will be about $18,000 US Check the rest of the truck out real good Good Luck
It's not much of a problem to dump them with the air bags deflated. They have a very different feel to them on the road. If you haven't driven an air ride dump truck before I would suggest asking the owner if you can drive it with a load so you can decide if the sway is something you're willing to deal with.
Well its a nice truck its got 560 km's or 347 miles and its got a C-15 475hp and then says 500hp/550hp 18 spd, pintle and wet kit to the rear, air tarp,gate new clutch, tranny, tires all the way around and well maintained one owner from new everything looks weel kept only reson for getting rid of is he is down sizing also 4 way locks, jake
If someone in my area would say they had a dump truck with a C15, 18 speed and air ride, I would tell them its a converted road tractor. I know nothing about trucks in your area, but 18 speed in a dump truck, sends up a red flag for me
18 speed and 8LL are the main tranny around here its got full double frame and 20/20/46 axles kenworth tells me its a fact dump
That's not a red flag thing in Canada .....18spds, 46,000lb rears 11Rx24.5 rubber, 20,000lb fronts w/425x22.5 tires, very very common actually if it's not equiped that way most would not buy it ..... they're usually spec'd to pull quad axle end dumps or transfer box trailers as well, not just tandem pony's. Don't forget we pull gvw's up here you guys can only dream about .... gotta spec them Heavy ....jmho
Couldn't of put it better myself and in Ontario I can run a max weight oh 63,500KG loaded between truck and trailer as long as axle spacings and tires allow it. Truck is about 14,500kg emtpy and in ontario I can run 21.5 ton aggragtes and run around 25 ton of fill. So when hauling ashalt, gravel, sand I can still pull another 27-28 ton including my trailer. I've never owned a dump truck before I always hired it out but I have a job the requires 700 loads of gravel and no time limit on when need to be done so I figured now is the time to buy a truck I figure I can do 10 loads a day may not buy Pup/dump trailer at the moment though
Imo trucks with the air bag suspension's don't crawl around on soft or sand ground near as well as spring or beam suspension's... grampa.
Like you say grandpa IMO ...... but it's a Myth..... if anything it's quit the opposite (especially the longer travel neway bags) .... the air bags keep a more consistant on ground pressure, of the wheels on all four corners of the drivers ..... it eliminates the PIA walking beam hop or kicking action (hendrickson rubber block or spring types) ..... lets say the if the front right driver had to go over a mound in the wheel track, the walking beam on that point will lift up, because of the pivot point (in the middle of the beam) it can't push the rear corner down so it begins to lift the whole side of the truck.....when I was set-up as a 6-7 axle logger our air-rides would walk out of the mud/snow easier than the others ...... when you are on uneven ground the walking beams will always try to pick the rig up rather than step over like the air-ride reducing forward momentum (like having a guy throw a wheel chalk in front of the wheel ).... picture it as an independant suspension .... this is not jmho, it's what i've had alot of personal experience with as my truck was a 60" spread hendrickson walking beam when it was new and 5 yrs later I installed a Peterbilt Air-track suspension under the same, pulling the same trailers over the same roads ..... there is slightly more maintenance as far as the rear suspension goes (mostly just bushings) but as far as the whole truck goes probably 75% less, because of NOT getting beat to death, especially the cab ...... I used to keep a glove box full of the door latch pins with the RB suspension, sometimes I would only get 500 miles out of a set (on really bad roads) ...... its been on air since '91 and I have not replaced one that I can remember .... just one small eg. .......... TTFN
I agree with Craft. The myth that air ride don't work as well is still alive, and mostly used by guys that are resistant to change. Seeing large numbers of all kinds of trucks in and out of jobsites, I have seen the air ride consistantly do better off road that the spring or rubber mounted machines. As a driver, I also see firsthand the advantages as outlined above by Craft. The only place that air doesn't work better, IMO, is on a mixer truck, because of the sway
We run a small fleet of triaxle dumps + triaxle pony pups, all on air ride. A fair amount of our work is spreading various types of gravel on county roads for the local townships. Dump the air out of the bags and spread the load. The only trucks in our fleet that have the henry roughride suspension is our redi-mix triaxle KW's. reason being, air ride is too unstable because of the constantly revolving drum with a high density liquid load of concrete :canada
Hey Craft tell the local guy here its a myth,,, he changed the suspension on his pete cause it was worthless in sand But I imagine thats why they make both types. lmao
What kind of weight can you guys legally carry on a tri-axle dump with a 21 CY bed?
If gravel 21.5 ton and fill on that perticular truck I could prob gross 24.5-25.5 ton of fill MTO (DOT) makes it so u can't haul anymore then 21.5 ton on any tri axle by doing this they make it fair competetion and there is no favortisim between trucking companys when the hourly rate is 80 an hour
Our tri-axles here can carry 25-26 tons depending on the tare weight of the truck. That is for State and secondary roads, we cannot carry that kind of weight on the Interstates.
Ya with fill we can max the truck with in tare weight and 21.5 is set by MTO but I have been told u can pay to carry to full cap. But its not cheap the 21.5 is for sand, gravel, rock
Careful GCC .... you might be quoting metric tonnes which 1-tonne equals 2200lbs ... and CM is talking about a ton which is 2000lbs CM when I was refering to weights I was meaning that in combo with trailer our gross is way higher ...and that is everyday everywhere with out over weight permits When I was running State side we were only allowed a max of 80,000lbs (5-axles)most States .... here most of Canada allows 86,900lbs ...in logging we are allowed even more than that with a tolerance allowance, and these are only 5-axle configurations ....... now we get into 6,7 and 8 axles which are up to 63,500 kgs or 140,000 lbs ..... I have heard of different versions of what you guys call tri-axles, but am not sure which one you are refering to ...do you mean a tandem with the air lift axle or are you calling a tandem with the steering as a triaxle ? ....because we commonly call a tri-axle a truck with 3-drive axles (which have a carry cap. of 24,000kg or 52,910lbs)+ the steering and that will also have the big float 425x22.5 tires allowing 9100kgs or 20,000lbs .... of coarse a guy would need to know the tare weight to do the deductions for the net max cap. grandpa ..... I'm not saying that the Pete air was the best .. it's what was available to me at the time, but it does work well .... I think I know where your friend was coming from the Pete air only has 4" of travel ... if I was more enegetic I would swap for the neway in a heart beat ..... I hauled with a guy that had the identical truck GCC is talking about ..... that's my dream dump I would have if it was my primary work ....cheers
Thats true and it really doesn't matter cause I wouldn't be push my max cap all the time cause I would be hauling for myself once I decide if I get the truck ill post pics and what it can tare
LOL ...... I wasn't thinking that you did not understand what your weights would be ..... but more for the boys down South of the 49th ...... I catch myself all the time quoting metric, cause we havn't used pounds/tons in 30 yrs ... so gotta do the converting so everyone is on the same page ....... When do you pick-up the truck ? ...... maybe post some pics .....cheers
A tri-axle would be a tandem 46K rears, 20K lb lift axle and 20K lb fronts with floats. Depending on tare weights of individual trucks, we carry 25-26 imperial tons but like I said before this is on local and State roads, we cannot carry that much on the Interstates. A tandem would be, well a rear tandem axle without lift axle. Do ya'll run 22.5's or 24.5's? It does vary from state to state. For example Georgia doesn't recognize a lift axle on a tri-axle, hence they only run tandems.:beatsme There are virtually no pup trailers used in my area. It's either tri-axles or end dumps for moving material at unit pay rates - per ton or CY. Tandems are used in excavation and such as they are easier to load and maneuver on site but you can't compete when the pay is by the ton with a tandem compared to a tri or end dump. I lived overseas for a few years and the metric system is second nature now for me. I just assumed we understood the differences but we all know what happens when you assume...
CM What do you actually get to carry on those 46K rears? We only get 34K on a tandem group here. For heavy haul we can permit 46K, to haul a non reduceable load, but not over 34K for normal use. We can get a 20K front, and the lift axle depends on wheelbase and the bridge formula.
Our W900L's are about 25' from axle 1 to axle 4 and we are permitted for 76,000lbs. The trucks are all factory setups with heavy duty single frames and cross members,18,000lb steering axle,18,000lb steerable lift axle and the tandems are 46,000lb with 8 bag air ride. With all aluminum wheels and lined dump bodies,475hp CATs and 13 speeds they all tare around 23,400 to 23,700lbs. BTW - My opinion is that the T-800 is a better all around truck for a triaxle than the WL's are. The T-800 has a better steering radius,better visibility and doesn't have the front frame horn extensions that sometimes break on the WL's.
So the lift axle is rated 20k lbs .... and you run the 425 floats on there or the 385's or ? ..... and are they a caster style steering lift axle as well ?? We run only 11Rx24.5 16ply on the drives .... some of the big city trucks might be using the 22.5's ...... but because of the places we have to dump you need all the ground clearance you can get ...... the fronts are usually 22.5's only if they are the 425's or 385 floats .... but some don't have the big front axles and they use either [11R or 12R's] x 24.5's ............. :drinkup
Jerry we are allowed a max of 20K per axle and I think 34K per tandem axle, however dump trucks, fuel trucks and concrete mixers have a special exemption and axle weight rating in AL. These trucks have a max allowable axle weight of 20K per, irregardless of the axle spacing. So a tri-axle's tandem would be allowed 20K lb per axle totaling 40K for a it's tandem plus another 20K for the lift axle. Most run dual 22.5's on the lift axles and 24.5's on the tandem but a few run floats, they re-cap their steer tires and use them on the lift axle. Very, very few dump trucks around here run steerable lift axles.
So you can go 80K on a Triaxle, if the axle ratings are there. Wow! Here in Kalifornia, we can't get that on an end dump without it being at least 38 ft long.
An excerpt from AL Code - http://www.dot.state.al.us/maweb/doc/Title32Chapter9.pdf A tandem dump can carry 60K gross and a concrete truck can gross 66K. I didn't know that about the concrete truck until I read the code above. Also if a driver can shift the load to get an axle or axles to 20K or less in the presence of the DOT officer, there is no violation.