I've had a short with the lights for some time and with me on its shorted enough to melt the switch but not enough to blow the fuse. Here recently it wouldn't crank and when I finally pushed the shut off solenoid in and jumped off the starter solenoid it wouldn't move. I pulled all the relays and replaced one that appeared to have got hot, cleaned all the pins behind the relays and fuses and fuses on side of the dash. Now it will move and operate with some codes which are not related to cranking. When I turn key on the dash lights up but when I turn on over to start the dash goes out and nothing happens. I have been turning key on and pushing kill solenoid on and going to other side and jumping off starter selenoid. I'm lost and don't know where to look and test to resolve this starting issue. I would sure appreciate if someone could tell me what's going on. Thanks again.
[QUOTE=looneytunes;6th can anybody tell me how to check the starting circuit on this case 850k series 2 dozer. The dash lights up when the key is on but goes out when the key is turned to start. I would sure appreciate any help.
Checking relays is a good place to start. From the keyswitch power goes to pin 30 at relay 14(start ignition relay), then leaves out pin 87. It then goes to pin 87 at relay 15 (handle neutral ok relay), then leaves out pin 30 It then goes to the starter solenoid 13, (which is by the relays) starter solenoid power then goes to the starter. I would start by jumping pins 87 to 30 at relay 15. If that doesnt make the engine crank over, have someone hold the key in the crank position. Remove relay 14, there should be 12v at pin 30. Put back in relay. Remove relay 15, there should be 12v at pin 87. put back in relay. There should be 12v at terminal E of the starter solenoid (this will be the smaller wire 21a) Release key switch. If the above did not work, try jumping the larger starter solenoid wires, (21D, and 1k) and the engine should crank over. Advise on results.
Mr. Gary I really appreciate that info. I called myself checking those wires behind those boxes of relays and fuses but I apparently overlooked it or pushed it back cleaning it with the relay out. The 87 wire behind that ignition relay wasn't snapped in and back just enough not to contact the relay. I was at a dead end and didn't know what to do. I'm really impressed at u r knowledge with these case machines. I have read several of your post and u have saved me and several others time, headaches, and money. I got one other problem with it that maybe u can help me with. The lights apparently have a short somewhere. They haven't been blowing a fuse but have been getting it hot enough to melt the plastic that holds the wire for the fuse. It has also melted the switch where it won't make contact. I put the wires into a empty fuse slot and changed the switch and it's doingg the same thing. It's apparently got a pretty good draw. Can u tell me how to locate the short? I have unplugged each individual light wire and watched the meter with continuity at ground and light fuse wire and nothing changes when I unplug each light. Any info will definitely be appreciated and thank u much for the info.
The word short is overused, and usually improperly used. Shorts do happen, With vibration, wires rub on steel, and wear through insulation. More commonly with lower voltage battery systems, connections get loose or corrode, and offer significant resistance to the flow of electrons. At the point of high resistance significant heat is generated. A weak switch melting isn't always an indication of a short circuit. Weak connections within a circuit are equivalent to resistors in series with the circuit. Resistors divide voltage.
My 850k Series II had several swithes in the dash not working properly also. Turned out to be chafed wires in the harness behind the instrument panel. Look carefully...it took me three times to find em all. Some were rubbed plum into. Scarey part is, it wasn't blowing any fuses. Good luck.
Okay katfish preciate that info I'll check that.
katfish_38 and willie b make some good points. I have seen the wiring harness rub through under the dash, and poor grounds can cause issues like yours. Want to consider installing LED lights, if you cant find your issue. How many lights do you have? Has there been more lights added to this machine? What size lights are you using? If you have a factory light set up, I would do the following: Turn on all the lights Using a multi meter, have one lead back probe the ground wire at a light connector, and put the other multi meter lead at the neg post on the battery. You should only read 0.5v or less. If you read over 0.5v, you have a ground issue, from the light to the ground. Repeat for other lights. Advise on results.
Thank mr. Gary for that tip. I guess I need to get em working before I can check the voltage across the ground. They went out completely not long ago and it's not the fuses. It has the factory setup. It has 2 on top front and 1 one on rear top. Any advise on where to find my troubles will definitely be appreciated.
Use an incandescent higher wattage bulb, rig it with test leads, and a fuse. 50 watt is good. Test at the light. Start with a ground test. Connect one lead to the positive battery terminal, the other to the ground lead at the light. If it lights your test rig you have ground. Now move your battery lead to test the hot wire at the tractor light. If none follow the wire using a schematic diagram, or follow it through the harness to the next point likely the switch. Keep going until your test light lights. The failure is most likely to be a connection, or switch. While a wire can fail mid span, it probably will give symptoms before final failure. Ultimately, confirm the point of failure by using a volt meter across the suspected point of failure. Be aware that manufacturers can be sneaky, and splice conductors inside the loom of a wiring harness. Sometimes they change colors in doing so. I've seen them double back a conductor inside the harness. Harnesses are rarely done in one section, usually numerous harnesses are plugged together. These plugs are notorious points of failure. They are often located where weather, oil, dirt, or mechanical damage can cause loss of continuity. Be conscious that not only the mating halves, but the crimps where they attach to wire can fail. Often the expedient solution is to run a new conductor to bridge a section failed. On my backhoe a couple of plugs are located at the bottom of everything under the driver's floor. Liquids of all variety trickle down the harness into them. Slop is splashed on them from below, and vegetation easily tangles in them pulling them. They are a frequent source of trouble. A whole new harness would be very expensive, and would only start the process anew.
Okay mr. Willie I'll do that when folks let me up for air. This week and half dry spell down here in North east Texas has everybody wanting something. I rented a 450 j deer crawler from a friend. I got the cab jacked back on my case 850k. I give it a good steam cleaning so I could locate the leaks. I got lines seeping and cylinders leaking that need kits. This is a 05 machine with 6500 hrs on it and I'm starting to sink some money in it. I noticed a lot of lines cracking and insulation on wires cracking. I think I may b better off selling it and lettin somebody else work on it. Seem like it's starting to b one thang after another. I gotta a case cx160 hoe and it's the same way. I sure appreciate the info mr. Willie.
I found the problem with the light circuit. It turned out it was losing continuity in one of those Deutch connectors in the dash. I could tell one of those pins in that connector had been hot. I cleaned it and spread that male pin and the lights are working and that connector is not getting hot. Hey guys I really appreciate the knowledge and input on helping me resolve the issues on my dozer. Thanks again!!
Good to hear of success, if only small. Now if we could only turn back the years, and hours, bless it to new, we'd have something to improve the human condition. If I could have a $10,000 machine that behaved like $120,000 I'd be in Heaven. I buy them for $10,000, then burn myself out trying to make them function. By the time they once again work everywhere, I don't need them any more. I'll admit I'm stupid. I'm an electrician. People line up wanting my services, I should just busy myself twisting wire nuts. Where's the fun in that? Willie
hey, we have a 2008 case 750k wt that will not start off the key but will start off starter. once started, it will idle up but will not move forward or reverse.. not sure whats going on here but any help would be a blessing!