I have had a head scratcher for the last couple years and. After sitting for a winter (16-17) we fired up this 2006 John Deere 160 CLC Excavator and it ran great, we were working it on a job and shut it off. After we restarted it it idles fine but as soon as you idle it up it runs terrible, missing and the whole motor shutters, sometimes puffs of black smoke. Obvious fuel issue. Well, that where it gets interesting. If you shut it back off and restart it, everything runs fine. Sometimes you have to restart it once, sometimes 3,4,5 times but it will always eventually run normal. 65% of the time it just starts and runs fine. Also never has a problem at 1st start of the day. Ive been hoping it would develop move, but its not getting any worse. So, Ive replaced the filters multiple times, drained the tank, blown through the lines into tank, inspected tank, replaced lines to tank, bypassed fuel cooler, replaced lift pump, replaced gaskets in pre-pressure lines, replaced crank sensor. It dosent throw any check engine lights. Dont know about stored codes, dealer is very far away. I always run with the A/A & A/I off but am currently suspecting it may be one of these sensors sending conflicting information to computer. Looking for ideas now. Thanks!
Have you check the filter housings really good ? I have seen dirt get packed in them were you would not see it unless you disassemble them .
The fuel filter housing? they are just canister type with a lock-ring that holds them in place. they are quite clean and orings are new on filters.
Yes I know that they are that type .But have you checked the fuel passages in them and the hand primer if installed on the primary filter .
I have a 2005 160clc. Had same issue. I changed filters, injectors, even swapped computers. Turned out to be a ground issue. Open the door on cab side of machine behind cab. As you stand looking into compartment, the computer is on your left . If you look below computer there is a ground stud. Clean that stud real good. I fought this issue intermittently for six months. It returns as the ground stud corrodes a little. I will get a picture in the morning if you need me too. Hope this helps
Thanks, I will check this. I really like this idea! I will check this out in the morning and clean real well. I'll let you know!
Take the plugs out and use a pick you might find something in the passages.There is little hole that gets clogged up use a flashlight .
Deere or Isuzu engine? (Sorry I'm better versed in the Hitachi side). I believe most Isuzu pumps have a banjo bolt with a strainer on one of the lines. Have seen those clog up. Have you tried running it out of a fuel can?
Well I think you did everything that will lead to that problem. I think its a mixed interception between the sensor and ECM. What you need to do next is to disconnect the battery and put on a light on the machine so that all current in the system will be pulled out. Wait for a 5 minute and then connect back the battery and your problem should be fixed.
Thanks for all the replies, Currently I cleaned the grounding bolt for computer really well and it hasn't acted up in two days. Last time I thought I fixed it though it came back a week later, haha. So I am optimistic this was it, but time will tell! If it starts acting up again I will start checking off more ideas. Thanks again for the replies, I was at a dead end
The problem has returned, it always started well in the morning so we just never shut it off until we were done with it. Well, currently it is starting with the "problem" it idles fine. As soon as you rev it up it begins to shudder and shake and miss. Looking for more ideas, it is not throwing any codes. So far we have replaced the fuel filters multiple times, drained the tank, blown through the lines into tank, inspected tank, replaced lines to tank, Inspected inlet to filter housings, bypassed fuel cooler, replaced lift pump, replaced gaskets in pre-pressure lines, replaced crank sensor, Cleaned computer grounding lug, checked/cleaned check valve leaving injection pump. One of the injectors looked "damp" so we replaced that... Still acting up, any more ideas on thing to try?? Thanks
It REALLY DEPENDS on which injection pump u have.. as to how we proceed.. Diff. pumps have diff. diagnosis.. I'm happy to help, I just GOTTA KNOW what I'm working with..
Its a Stanadyne pump, I'll get some numbers off it today.
Have you unthreaded the lid on each filter housing and cleaned in there?
Good day I suggest the nervous approach check the turbo and for sticking valves. Kind regards Uffex
You might want to call your JD dealer and have a chat ,I think they are having a lot of problems with these pumps. Bob
Pictures of pump
That's a DE pump.. all electronically controlled.. there is a spring inside that breaks & wont throw a code.. & act the same as u described.. There is a VERY specific timing procedure that MUST BE followed & requires special timing pins, so read up on it..
Yes, they were both good. Nothing in them besides clean diesel Its 12 years old now, not expecting it to last forever, they gave me a couple ideas to try to no avail. I did ask for a tech to come out but they said they were too busy? Is there any tests I can do before replacing it? is it possible this spring could be so intermittent for 2 years? I ordered new injectors today to cross that off the list.
First thing you should do is get a gauge hooked up to the fuel system to check fuel pressure to your injection pump. Make sure you have 3-5 psi minimum in all speeds and loads. Another thing I would try is while the engine is running try wiggling the wires that go into the back of the injection pump and wiggle the harness from the pump back to the ecu to see if the engine miss comes and goes. I have seen several failures of this harness on 160's in particular. The couple of the failures I've seen were within a 18" of the injection pump. Otherwise you may need a JD tech to hook up a laptop and check decay time, rise time, shutoff adjustment and valve closure times to see if there is an issue with the injection pump. One more question, what is the part number on the side of the ecu?
Well, The problem continues, we replaced all the injectors. Had a tech come out, said it wasnt throwing any codes. continued to cycle on and off untill it would run normally and finished the season. We now have it in the shop and ran the diagnostic test manually without laptop and came up with a Code 71 - Pump Control Valve Closure to Long. After wiggling wires and checking connections I guess the inevitable has happened. We will be replacing the injection Pump. I was able to obtain the Flywheel pin, Pump pin and gear puller. I did have a couple questions I was hoping to gain some knowledge on. 1. Finding TDC #1 - I was planning on taking valve cover off, following injection line #1 to cylinder and cranking slowly till the rocker is tight, indicating compression stroke and I can insert dowel pin into flywheel. Is this how everyone does it or is there a better way? 2. After the pump is installed and bled to pump, what is the best way to get it from pump to injectors. I would like to crank it with ignition off but am unsure how to do this besides the ol screw driver in starter trick. Was looking for a better way. Thanks for the insight!
If you've just replaced the injectors, I'd pull #1 and verify TDC that way.
The "easiest way" is to remove the timing plug on the injection pump & turn the engine "by hand" till the pin drops in.. & THEN SEE if the pin goes into the flywheel.. The reason behind doing THAT is.. the flywheel hole will come up TWICE while the pin will go in the pump ONCE.. SO if u drop the pin in the pump.. U KNOW its on #1 compression.. THEN fine tune w/ the flywheel pin.. All u have to do is get fuel TO the pump & the pump will self bleed after starting.. Just let it idle for a few minutes before reving the engine..
Awesome! I knew there would be knowledgeable answer! We plan on doing the swap on Monday, hopefully it will make this ol girl reliable again. Thanks a ton!
BE SURE & de-grease the drive shaft & drive gear w/ something..{on the new pump} I use brakekleen.. Put "Blue" Loctite on the threads of the drive gear & TORQUE IT...I think its 125 FTlbs.. IF you don't follow those steps, you'll be doing it again.. the dr.shaft is NOT keyed.. Good luck.. Where did u get the pump?? reman?? cost?? If u went to JD.. did u bring any lube?? Lol A buddy of mine is up there working as a heavy equip. mechanic.. been there about a month.. He's "trying" to get me up there.. He said they are DESPERATE for experienced inj. pump guys up there.. & I could write my own ticket.. He said its ALL fly-in or snow machine work & you get "stuck" at an outpost for weeks at a time.. waiting on parts & O/Hing gen-set engines on site.. THAT doesn't sound like my cup of tea..
LMAO!
Excellent, One thing I had a question on is it says "hold the gear while applying torque." How is this achieved? Does it just go against timing pin in the pump? Or against the timing gears of engine... with the flywheel pin installed I would suppose this would be the correct way. I got a Reman pump from JD it was $1,822 which was better than I was expecting. Yes, there is a company, "Anywhere Alaska" who I had come look at this machine and they are always getting stuck out somewhere, need bush planes to hop to different areas to get to a bigger planes to get home. Some guys love the adventure and I am happy they are out there! Definitely not for everyone but the experience will last a lifetime, come on up!
Successfully installed new pump!! We started it a dozen times or so in the shop and she ran clean and smooth every start up. Will be nice to have a reliable machine again. Thanks everyone for the input and advice.
They sell an "Artic" inj. pump.. I wonder if u got that one.?? IF not, expect more trouble.. Happy its running tho.. Did u do the work or "help"?? Its just alittle intimidating if ya don't have instructions.. Was it REAL HARD to get the pump separated from the gear?? I've seen guys strip out the holes.!! & I had 1 that I had a 5ft "knocker rod" & had to beat the bajesus out of the puller before it would pop off.. I even had the screws holding the pump to the block out & had 2 "wedges" on THAT side.. Lol Did u post your pump #?? I can look it up real quick & tella if its an Artic pump..
Just outa curiosity what is the difference between artic and standard pumps?i hadn’t realized one was available
The pump manuf. realized that their equip could be/would be used in Artic climates.. & the fuel wouldnt be up to "standards"..so they built these "certain" units w/ exceptionally hard materials & diff. fuel setting.. They are usually identified by a stamping on the name plate.. "mm3/st" or by the part # itself.. Like I said, if u can get me the # off the np.. I don't think the DE pump has the markings on the np.?? IT SHOULD have an "older brother" that was made for those conditions..
The one we pulled off was a Stanadyne pump, the one we put on is a JD reman. I did find a 2010 date stamped on old one, which is interesting because the machine is a 06. So apparently the dealer had a issue with it before I bought it. Yes we did the work, the puller did flex a little and I was nervous, but then it popped right off. We installed the new pump and torqued it, but it didnt sit quite flush, we pulled it all back off and found that the old gasket/seal was still in there. Took that out, loc tighted nut, torqued it again and it fired up nice and smooth! I don't now about a arctic pump, we dont run in the winter so its not a big deal.
Same diff.. I don't know if Stanadyne builds JD reman pumps for JD?? BUT the pump IS A Stanadyne DE2-6323 made for JD. & its not an "artic" pump..