Hey guys I'm new to this forum and looking for some help. I'm working on a 2008 volvo ec140cl and operator is complaining about the right side track being way slower than the left track (intermittent problem). Also when this happens he claims the bucket curl function slows down as well. Says he can jostle the machine sometimes and both functions go back to working fine. Does that sound like trash in a spool valve? If so, how could it affect both the right track speed and the bucket curl function speed at the same time?
Also, attached us the serial number. Machine shows roughly 5600 hours.
I’m not sure if the 140 is the same but on the 240 size machine’s the have two Hyd pumps piggybacked together. One pump supplies RH travel and bucket curl then, both pumps are used for boom and stick functions in tandem and the other pump supplies LH travel and swing. Seeing as it’s intermittent.. Possibly an issue with the flow control on the pump that supplies the RH travel and bucket curl. This is provided that they are the same as the lager units.
Rooster I'm not sure if it's the same as the 240 size machine either. I appreciate the info greatly. I told the gentleman that owns the machine that I was going to service everything first, get all the fluid levels right, and then see what we have after that. I was hoping maybe a hydraulic filter is plugged up and restricting flow but I won't know until tomorrow when I get back to the machine tomorrow. The list shows it has like 4 or 5 filters associated with the hydraulics. I'll keep you posted. Thanks again.
Good day Try manual mode and fully stroking the bucket cylinder see if it straightens out.Note if there any any other errors. Kind regards Uffex
Uffex thanks for the feedback, I will be at the machine tomorrow morning and will give that a try. Are you telling me to just curl the bucket cylinder all the way in and out ( manual mode )?
Im sorry, I'm an idiot. I'll get to the screen that you sent me and then look for errors while I stroke the bucket in and out. I'll report my findings.
Good day Sorry if I made confusion, If you dead end the bucket cylinder and then track forwards & backwards if the machine travels in a straight line it is a way of trouble shooting. Kind regards uffex
Uffex, your message wasn't confusing. I just wasn't familiar with putting the machine in manual mode. After talking to my buddy that used to work at McLung Logan ( Volvo Equipment ) he cleared it up for me. I appreciate yal taking the time to offer up your knowledge to try to help someone out.
The machine tracked fine once I maxed out the curl out function.
When I maxed the curl out function it tracked straight. I tried the same thing in rabbit mode and it didn't change speed but still tracked straight. I noticed each final drive had similar pressures while moving ( 600 psi or so ) while curling bucket out. I didn't see any change to the final drive pressure even when I stopped curling the bucket out. The picture I posted was just a reading while machine was at or near idle and dead heading the curl out function. I did notice the bucket curling in out and out very slow and coming to a stop mid stroke. I got everything serviced up. I hope I have given you guys something to go with. I'm happy to try anything yal ask. Appreciate it!!
Did you find any debris in the filter well? Did you cut open the case drain filter and observe its contents? In service mode, observe the pressure sensor for the affected function. If a sensor is getting lazy, it could affect pump displacement.
Nice you help
Good day The fact it straighten out means the motors - central joint are fine, something is going on with pump delivery (flow). Be aware that when you use the crawlers in combination with the equipment will effect crawler performance, your observations of slower crawlers when you use the bucket is normal. The mili amps differ to each pump just check that you have not selected X1. Kind regards Uffex
Funwithfuel, I did not inspect the filters after removing it. I did not notice exactly what the psi was for the bucket curl was. I will have to try to find which pressure switch is pertaining to the bucket curl function. I did pay attention to the psi to both of the final drives while it was tracking straight and when the right track was messing up. They both stayed at 600 psi or so. Thanks for the help and I will be back at the machine hopefully Monday morning and I'll try to have answers for yals questions. Thanks again.
Uffex, I saw that the miliamps differed as well, I'm not familiar enough to know whether or not I selected x1. With the up and down arrows that control the screen, it looks like they just scroll the page up or down each time you push it to show different information. I wish I was more familiar with this stuff like yal guys so I could be more helpful, I apologize. I appreciate yal guys taking the time to try to help me out.
When you raise the safety flag, does the display read, "X1 hammer selected" if not, you haven't selected X1. If the mA are wavering or dropping out proportional to the track speed dropping off, the pump is doing what it's told. Now you need to monitor pump 1 & 2 output pressure while tracking. Do the values change ? If the pressure sensor is telling the computer that your maxing out, it will throttle the pump back to prevent stalling. It's looking like you have an electrical gremlin vs hydraulic issue.
This is what the pumps are doing when I am tracking straight then let off of the curl function, it starts fluctuating all over the place. It just happened to catch the psi shown in my pic when I took it. I thought it stayed steady but I'm wrong.
So with the mA dropping off like that we have to look at pump pressure reading. Again, if one is showing an incorrect value, the computer will throttle back the pump. Do you have gauges where you could monitor actual pressure with monitored values?
Didn't see anything attached to response #20, I was replying to image posted in #19
I do not currently have gauges to monitor the pressures.
I should have asked this earlier. Have you measured track sag? What material are you tramming through? Do your chains have seized or frozen links?
And you have X3 bi-directional flow selected. In the home screen, you can unselect optional tool.
No sir I have not measured track sag. Both sides for sure need to be tightened though. I will have to check for seized links.
Okay I will try to unselect optional tool when I'm sitting in the machine again.
Should be around 11-11.5 inches from bottom of rail to pad when track is raised. So long as you're not running "banjo string" tight. You should be good. Sometimes the simplest things are overlooked
I gotcha. To answer your question about what material the machine is tracking though, dirt and mud now but it was a rental machine before my buddy bought it so it's really no telling while it was a rental unit.
As long as we're not talking about sand or any other powdery material. That stuff binds up tracks like nobody's business
I gotcha.
Good day This link covers many issues with track power for excavators, its to large to post here , if you click on the link should take you direct to the information. Kind regards Uffex https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dAKfSkpG6NWnP2R8v48qJa3VCOCDOwrk/vie
Thank you!!
Uffex...that link is not working for me...I get this message: Sorry, unable to open the file at this time. Please check the address and try again.
Good day Gary Sorry some glitch in the system, I have split the file into two parts, so I can post here. Kind regards Uffex
That worked...thanks!
I watched the curl pressure switch reading while I was curling in and out, I was getting around 600 psi. But the two psi values from pump 1 and pump 2 combined didn't add up to what the bucket curl psi said it was getting. Not even close. Could the bucket curl pressure switch be bad like yal were saying or have a bad connection?
The 600 you're seeing, that's pilot oil. So if you gradually work the stick from the neutral position, you should see a gradual increase from 0-600 at full stroke. You should be able to settle on any point in between. If it strokes from 0-600 with no in between, that sensor is probably flat. Keep in mind, bucket curl and bucket dump are 2 separate sensors. Odds of both having failed are pretty slim. Now, looking at P1 &P2. You're only going to see real meaningful pressure at "end of travel" Meaning when the cylinder is fully extended or retracted. What do you see then?
Curled maxed out both directions I'm getting roughly 4200 psi on p2.
Sounds about right. If you hold bucket curl and press your power man button, you should gain about 500 psi.
4420 when I speed the machine up til the power man comes on.
I loose a few psi on bucket curl when I hit the strong man button.
I gain 200 to 250 psi when I hit the strong man switch at p2
You lose pressure with boost? That would suggest your main relief is hurt.
Yes I lose 10 to 15 psi at the bucket curl switch. But gain 200 to 250 psi at p2 switch.
Please do the same test with boom up. It uses 2 pump flow but at end of travel you'll be relying on P2. See if that boost phenomenon repeats itself. Thanks.
Pressure at boom up is close to the same while dead-heading it with strong man on and off. Pump 1 and pump 2 while dead-heading boom up shows about 200 to 250 psi more with strong man versus strong man off.
Still thinking we have a relief issue. At this point, I'm thinking the best thing to do is to establish baseline pressures. In travel, your running on raised pressure. If raised is compromised, we need to find out where. Next step, invest in gauges and T-fittings or hand it off to the dealer. I don't want to suggest shotgunning parts.
Being a C series, everything should be ORFS If you decide to invest in a gauge set
@ ROPecht For any hydraulic related performance complaint I always recommend measuring cycle times on all functions. Travel L, R forward, reverse, high and low speeds, boom up, down, arm in, out, bucket in, out, Then as @uffex stated run it in manual mode to see if the complaint remains. Do not worry about holding the bucket in while traveling, as that puts it into straight travel mode and defeats testing the regulators and how they are stroked. Are you using the straight travel pedal and not both travel pedals? This simplifies diagnosing travel deviation complaints. Your pics showing P1 and P2 current I assume are while you are traveling straight or trying to or am I wrong? If so and the current is different, especially while using the straight travel pedal , I suspect one of your pump output sensors is off. This can best be verified by comparing the sensor readings with an accurate gauge(s). But please do not just replace the sensors. Do the troubleshooting first, as it could be something else. Your main relief pressure is a little low but that should not affect travel or bucket speed.
When I'm tracking forward and reverse I'm using both pedals. I'm not familiar with a straight travel pedal. I only traveled forward and reverse with the bucket curled all the way in or out in order to perform a type of troubleshooting, I'm guessing to see if the right track was capable of moving the same speed as the left track. You are correct with the mA signals being different on p1 and p2, I was traveling. Would it be worth while just swapping the two sensors to see if the issue remains?
I have a stupid question to ask, how is when I'm curling the bucket in or out that the bucket pressure will be at 550 psi or so even when it comes to a dead stop midstroke for several seconds?
The pressure sensor values for the different functions are the servo values. As long as the reach around 550psi or greater and increase proportionally with the movement of the joystick, then those pressures are fine. Perform the cycle time testing first then try traveling in manual mode. Then report back.
Does manual mode differ from service mode?
Yes, manual takes a lot of sensors out of the equation and just gives a flat 80% pump output. Ben Witter has given solid advice. Measuring cycle times is extremely helpful in determining pump health. If everything straightens out in manual, that would further imply lazy, flat or erroneous sensor values.
How do I put the machine in manual mode?
Should be 2 to 3 switches in the left armrest closer to the elbow. Should be a cover with a couple thumbscrews holding in place. Under the cover should be a switch for auto/manual, eng rpm and maybe a switch for 2 pump flow (optional)
Issue with slow bucket and slow right track still remains when in manual mode. The right track isn't as slow as when in normal mode but still noticeably slower. At idle ( 948 ) rpms: Bucket curl in: 16 sec. Bucket curl out: 16 sec. Stick in: 8 sec. Stick out: 8 sec. Boom UP from as low as I can get it with Stick straight out: 17 -18 sec. Boom DOWN : 3 to 4 sec. Right track full revolution: 1 minute and 10 sec. Left track full revolition: 20 sec. At (1896 ) rpms: Bucket curl in: 11 sec. Bucket curl out: 8 sec. Stick in: 5 sec. Stick out: 4-5 sec. Boom up: 6 sec. Boom down: 3-4 sec. Right track: 35 sec. Left track: 13 sec.
Were these times in auto or manual mode? Either way all the cycle times look slow, just some are much worse than others. Make sure you are in auto mode and the machine is at operating temp when measuring cycle times. I like to measure 3 cycles of each function and average them. Track speed is measured in 3 complete revolutions and waiting to start measuring after one full revolution to ensure you are up to speed. Oh and use a stop watch. Cycle times at full engine rpm should be Travel lo 28.2 sec Travel hi 15.2 sec Boom up 2.5 sec Boom dn 2.4 sec Arm in 2.8 sec Arm out 2.2 sec Bucket in 3.0 sec Bucket out 2.2 sec Swing 18.5 sec Like travel 3 revolutions after 1 full revolution. If your cycle times are consistent with your previous findings then it may be a pump or regulator issue
Machine was in auto while getting times. Only time that I used a stopwatch on was right track bc it was so slow.
Were you in hi speed for both travel motors and was that 3 revolutions? what are cycle times in low speed? How is swing speed? If OK and the travel speeds were 3 revolutions in hi speed then it sounds like there is an issue with P2. This could still be a sensor issue and the only way you can check that without gauges is to swap them and see if the issue moves.
No sir, I was low speed for both and it was only one revolution. I did not check swing speed but I will. I believe I know where p1 and p2 sensors are. There are two pressure sensors in the compartment where all of the filters are, I have unplugged them before hoping the computer would tell me what it was but both of them say HYDRAULIC FAILURE or something along those lines. Didn't tell me if they were p1 or p2 so I'm really not certain if they are it or not.
I believe the two in this pic are it.
The 2 sensors with the green housing are in deed the pump output sensors. Swapping them can help determine if one of them is bad but that is all it may do. You will have to remove them and install in the opposite location keeping the connectors where the are.
Few months behind this discussion going on but I have a Hitachi Zaxis 450LC having this EXACT same issue lately and out where I am, we don't have the option of bringing in mechanics or going to a dealer very easily at all. I am wondering if ROPecht had managed to solve the issue he/she was having with the track and bucket dump/curl. My 450 will run great for about 10min of work and then low pressure readings. Even the same bucket stall while trying to dump function. Seems like you guys on here are a world of knowledge and I love to see all the helping going on. Thank you members. Brodie