Hello all, I am trying to decide if I can switch my whole fleet over to ck-4 10w30 from 15w40. My mixed fleet has more newer engines in it. The newer engines all call for 10w30. I am hoping to just keep 1 drum around, but I am a little concerned for my few older tier 3 engines. The brands I am considering are either CAT or other large well known international brands. I have studied all the specs to death, but don't trust myself to make this decision.
I think you should be fine with the switch. Especially, If you are doing oil analysis and can watch the performance of the new product. The 10w-30 does tend to shear more than 15w-40. Some engines get noticeably louder with 10w-30. The main thing to watch out for is the fuel dilution problem child, because the viscosity can drop fast with 10w-30. What brand of 10w-30 DEO are you considering?
Either cat deo uls or petrocanada duron shp 10-30.
The duron is semi synthetic.
I’m not familiar with Duran, since it’s not available in my area. After a cursory look at the spec sheet, Duron SHP looks like a quality product. I don’t think you could go wrong.
Do you have any CNH dealers around? We use CNH Unitek 10W-40. I feel it gives the best of both worlds.
We use a full synthetic 5w - 40 year round, but do not extend intervals, in everything we have.
Caterpillar will not approve of 5-40 in my 3196 engines in my 95Es. If they did, I would be running it in everything as well. What is stupid, IMO, is they would rather see 10W-30 DEO ULS than 15-40. Riddle me that......
Petro Canada Duron is really good hydro-treated oil. It's very common in mining and large operations. Petro Canada is owned by Suncor.
Studying the spec on the oils, it looks like the newer synthetics do a lot better job at broadening their operating range characteristics, so that thinner oils can provide the protection of old thicker oils, as well as better flowability at low temps for startup protection. The engine I am most concerned about is my 2010 C13 - 10000 hours. She is still running strong and I need it to stay that way. We change oil at 250 hr (because the final drives have a really short interval and we are already there) I don't want to upset that engine ( if thats possible) I would hate to change the grade and find out the hard way it was a mistake.
We have a C13 in our 2011 345 that we purchased in 2018 and have run 5w - 40 in it since we purchased it, and have had no issues. We have a little over 10,800 hours on it now. We sample every service.
I started using that in my 721G last year. I like it. Starts easier in bitter cold.
Interesting. I thought CK4 was backwards compatible in all applications. It is not an issue where 5w-40 was not produced when your machine came out is it? It sounds like you have asked or sought the answer recently though.
In the end, I found a ck-4 10w-40 semi synthetic at my local CNH store. They bring it in if someone asks for it, but it is getting more popular. Chevron, Petrocan, and shell don't offer this grade in ck-4 blended. Not sure why. In my mind it is close enough to 15w40 at temperature to be ok for a 14 year old c13. At the same time, its close enough to 10w30 for a brand new CAT 313, or JCB skid steer, etc. One responder suggested this oil, so i went looking for it. Thanks for that. Price wasn't too far out either.
We switched from Rotella T3 15W-40 to the 10W-40. Like you, I am particular, and worry everytime I get a different piece of equipment about switching engine oil. It has never caused a problem, and on several engines we have that used to get Rotella, oil consumption dropped after the switch. I did worry a couple years ago when we were notified that CNH was switching from Viscosity Oil to Shell as their supplier, but have not noticed anything different. I believe whatever makes the CNH oil what it is, is the additive package, and that obviously did not change.
Most everything in the shops i service takes 15w40. Couple shops use 5w40. I'd recommend using what is available locally at your bulk oil vendor though I suppose shipping drum or totes isn't so.cost prohibitive in the L48 vs to AK.
Petro Canada True Canadian here
What about Mobil Delvac or Royal Purple
Delvac 1300 Super is the same as Cat DEO, the last time I confirmed. Good product.
would you run a skidsteer over 250hrs with this oil
In the engine why not?
I guess it would make sense to run it to 250 the first time and get the oil tested.
What does the manual say regarding oil change intervals? You could do an oil sample but a skid steer doesn't take a lot of oil so why not just change it at the recommended intervals? An initial oil sample is going to have a bunch of high levels of certain elements due to initial break in. You could do them every oil change to monitor levels but skid steers don't typically get near the hours mining machines or larger construction equipment gets. I'd wait until maybe 1000 hours before I'd be too concerned with oil samples. Just change the oil and filters at recommended intervals and go to work.
Why? Is that 2 gallons of oil too expensive?
Not really. I realize it makes no sense to save a few bucks. These machines are over 6 figures
Aside from cold weather performance and the theoretical improvement of extended service intervals with synthetic, what is the benefit of running 5w-40 vs 15w-40?
Those two aspects are what is appealing to me. We do not extend the service intervals, but it makes me feel better knowing we could. We use it in our pickups as well and change those at 10,000 miles, so I guess we do extend it a bit on those. The cold starting benefit is the biggest reason for us.
Skid steers usually get stopped and started numerous times in a shift, and often don't get properly warmed up and cooled down like bigger equipment. I would not extend the hours considering the small amount of oil that they use. The cost of filters is probably as much or more than the oil, but still their use probably falls in the extreme service category.
Anyone switching oil brands/grades who has their oil analysed on a regular basis would be well advised to change the oil early after the switch, say 200 hours, and only go to the manufacturer’s recommended interval once they have a few results to confirm that the oil is performing as per expectations. As a couple of people have already pointed out above, with the small quantity of oil in a skid steer engine it isn’t going to break the bank to change it a bit more frequently than recommended by the OEM. Also, and this is the bit in the manual that nobody ever reads, there is a ‘severe service’ caveat that can cut the oil change period by half in the most restrictive of circumstances. I agree that even the normal operation of this type of machine probably puts it in that category. My 2c - YMMV.
In my probably uneducated opinion, the reason 5w-40 came to be was the OTR trucks. The limiting factor wasn't always the additive package, or the quality of the oil, it was the soot load. 5W-40 I think I read somewhere that it can hold 30-50% more soot than 5W-40.
You mean it can hold 30-50% more soot than a 15W-40 I assume.?
Before viscosity becomes an issue. I'm guessing you're about to tell me to go lie by my dish haha
That's my thought too with doing 250hr OCI. Some places do 400 or 500. Oddly enough I see engines often getting rebuilt at those shops. Would they last longer with shorter OICs? Dunno.
But in my experience these are generally the large outfits who religiously perform oil sampling and know from the basis of their SOS analysis trends know exactly how far they can take their oils before either the physical properties, soot loading, etc, etc, get anywhere near the limit. Their machines often work 24/7/365 so not only are they working optimally (never cold) they are also racking up 250 hours every 12-14 days. Under those circumstances customers can save literally millions on their yearly oil costs if they can take their oils SAFELY (and I can't emphasise that fact enough) further than the OEM-recommended change period. A couple of examples. The last job I was on we had our haul truck engine oil at 400 (from 250) and rear axle oil at 6000 (from 2000). A big bonus to the financial bottom line of the operation. We had the numbers crunched 6 ways to Sunday and the answer was no. Our engine overhaul limits were more determined by total fuel burned TBH.
Am I severely mistaken in my assumption on soot load in 5-40 vs 15-40?
I haven't seen any information to confirm or deny that, but that doesn't mean to say it's not out there somewhere. with modern engine oil formulations anything is possible I guess. If you can find it please share.
Some places sample, some don't. They wanted me to do 500hr on the work truck. ISX Cummins. I think 250hr is proper for the conditions it sees, but whatever.
talked with my supplier about changing to 10/40 he said main reason for switch is cold starts, oil gets up top faster. anything below 32 deg f we try not to work always seem to have problems. make more money going ice fishing.
I have seen nothing but good after switching to 10-40 except one tired old ISX. If I don't run 15-40 and a gallon of Lucas, the oil drops below 10 psi hot. 7 years and 100k later it's still rattling down the road the same as it was when we got it 15 years ago.
shimmy how long have you been running it, how hot are your summers, do you think its not breaking down has fast because its a hair thinner or is it a soot thing?
15w40 is thicker cold, same when warm I have no idea about soot and ash, I didn't know we were talking about two strokes here
We started running it in 2016. Switched from T3 Rotella. It can get fairly hot, upper 90s, into the 100s. The main reason for the switch was the guy I was working for upgraded some machinery, and Case was recommending this 10-40 instead of 15-40. At the time, it was pretty close to Rotella in price, and we also set up a bulk system so we decided to switch to something that would be delivered. I'm not sure if it's lasting longer, we change at 250 hours regardless of the recommended interval.
Wanted to follow up a bit. Not my truck and I'm obviously not paying for it or maintaince. There's someone that oversees all the trucks and they've decided 500hr changes is an acceptable OCI, likely factoring costs, down time, etc.
I worked for a company that had operations over many states. An equipment company told them they could go to 500 HR service intervals if their oil was used. Sales pitch for new units I thank. That was my orders even though all our units had over 8,000 hours on them. There were notes about oil samples but I was told not to do them if there is not problem? There were no major engine problems when the contract was lost. These units had around 12,000 hours by then. Major savings right! Well if they did not change the oil at 250 HR they also did not get greased as well as other things checked. We were not allowed to do anything early so the fuel filters that should be changed at 750 hours went to a thousand. What was spent on common rail injection problems and such would buy a lot of oil and filters. Just saying these extended intervals may not be best for smaller companies. That is compared to Niges example of well managed fleet on top of the curve. Still like to change the oil and filters on my oil farm tractors at least once a year. Even if they have not been used much. Grease them often. Grease is cheap!
I try to grease every fuel fill