Hi Guys. We are looking at getting a new truck. Right now for the personal Truck we have a Gmc Sierra 1500. And looking to upgrade too a Chevy/Gmc 2500hd, or a ford F-250 PowerStroke. It would be 4x4. We already have an E-350 so we do have experience with fords, but we mostly have GM's. I wanted to get your guys opinions of the trucks, and MPG stuff like that. Thanks, John Gibson
I'm a GM guy the Duramax is a proven engine and Ford doesn't have the best record lately. I haven't driven a brand new GM but had a F350 for a week. It was a nice truck but only got 7MPG pulling our 30' GN.
I like my gm 2008 duramax, previously had a gm 6.2 p/u, a 4.3 gm vortec p/u. Haven't had a Ford since my 1977 F250 p/u with a 351 modified engine which the engine was wore out at 60 thousand miles. My duramax is also much quieter than ford or dodge even on cold starts, I prefer the sound of the cummins in the dodges but I am sure the neighbours prefer the duramax.
The Duramax has a better long standing record but statistically the new PSD is doing very well. I would need to know more as to what the truck will be doing. Highway traveller I'd go GM, time spent on the jobsite, I'd go Ford. Ford's bodies and interiors have simply been built better for decades. It is a shame however, they haven't had a solid diesel since the 7.3.
I've got about 300000 km on the 6.7 ford with no issues at all.
My 5.9 is coming up to 535,000 kms. 3500 4 door 4x4 dually Starts and runs great. New clutch at about 520,000, water pump the other day. Best part is the milage at about 10.5L/100 kms (=22.4 USmpg) Can only hope the current generation of the 6.7 is as good
2013 F350 CC LWB 4x4 6.7, bought it this year. There is a thread about it on here but that's a whole 'nuther story. The 6.7 is one hell of a motor so far - strong, fast and efficient. On the highway with 90 gals of off-road, loaded toolbox, 2 guys and a bunch of other crap in the back I get 16-17 mpg running 75-80. I have been working 50 miles away for the last two weeks and I have consistently got this MPG, I calculated it too. Current odometer - 8500 miles we'll see how it goes. The truck is one hell of a puller. 28' goose with T250, bucket, forks and brushcat (with all the other stuff as listed above) pulls it like a dream and gets 10 mpg around town. It's the strongest pickup I have ever owned. I have owned several 7.3's and many 6.0's and this engine will eat their lunch and dinner. I still have one 7.3 in a F250 and it's just not a fair fight to compare them.:cool2 Now I might be :soapbox this engine before it's over but so far so go. I researched this platform extensively before purchasing and it seems like it's a good engine. Ford has been building their own diesels overseas for years for all those models we don't get here in the US.
what are you going to be doing with the truck and where at
Duramax versus the others I've have 3 Duramaxs in my family. Several friends, have Fords, & Dodges, 6.0, 6.9, 7.3, 5.9, &....... For performance, & fuel efficiency, the Duramax, just can't be beat. The cummins, is a good engine. However, any diesel, that has anything other than a manual transmission, or an Allison, is bound to fail. Ford & Dodge, have what is a modified car transmission. Check it out.
we just got a new Ford f350 last year, which we put a 10' flatbed on with gooseneck hitch so we can haul our 20', 25' & 30' trailers around from jobsite to jobsite for our contractors. One day, I weighed around 36,000 - well overweight I know! I had around 16,000on the trailer & that new 6.7 pulled it like it was nothing! I was running 70 and couldn't even feel that trailer behind me. For us, it has been a great truck- once that boost builds up, it will put you to the back of the drivers seat.
Lol,,, the people that compare their guberment motors trucks to the Fords apparently "haven't driven a Ford lately". I think Ford snuck up on the competition and blew past them,,, . And as far as being quiet, Ford is setting the bar in that category now. I've got 100,000 miles on the new 6.7 and have not had any problems what so ever.
I never ever wanted an automatic transmission, but the new ones hold load backs so much better than manuals that I have since changed my mind. My 08 F350 has 170000 miles with no problems. We pull a gooseneck trailer hauling our 287C and attachments grossing 30,000lbs. frequently and could not be happier with the transmission. I know of no "modified car transmission" that would hold up to that. We also live in the mountains, so it is not all flat land hauling. All of the new pickups are phenominal relative to what we were driving 30 years ago, and GM/Dodge/Ford are all good. My objection with the Chevy's is the independent fron suspension - nice ride but too many moving parts to wear out for me.
I have owned many Fords with autos, 9 to be exact. I have had only one transmission failure, that was an '03 with less than 10 k miles on it. Ford had a new trans in it in 3 days. Don't know what the failure was but the trans was shipped back to Ford. I would hardly call hd pickup truck transmissions modified car versions.
I CAN say with KNOWING the chief enengeer for the drive train of FORD personally!!!! they use the SAME transmission in the F250,F350,F450,& the F550 so I don't know how HD it can be!!! lol
They have always used the same model autos across the superduty model lines, no breaking news story here. :cool2
even when chevy and gmc had there 1 1/4 ton trucks they had the same engine and trans combo as the regular 3/4 and 1 ton trucks
Rear end ratios are where the differences likely begin.
and suspension the 1 1/4 tons had solid axles with king pins in the front, tiny 10 lug bolt pattern and a few other things changed
How about brakes? I have been chewing thru brakes on regularly on my 2008 F250, rear brakes only lasted 17 months and less than 30000 kms. I regularly tow 10 000 lbs : BC E32 plus buckets and attachments or dump trailer with fill or gravel. Trailers all have brakes on both axels and regularly service... Used different Mechanics for service and brake replacement hoping to find different result. At least once brake calipers were seized on. Any comments? Thxs
Pre 03 the Ford transmissions left much to be desired. Since the inception of the Torque Flite trannys your comment doesn't hold water. There are many 6.0 and later motors that have been built to the hilt and the trannies have stood up to them with simple tuning. The Allisons will need hard parts with 50 additional HP.
In 1970 I bought two Ford LT 8000 dump trucks. They had the Allison MT 41 series auto's in them,,,, by the time they had 100,000 miles, each truck was sporting Rt613 manuel trannies. I never ever thought i'd buy another truck with an automatic after the bad taste of those two.... time passed and I came in the need of a used snowplow truck. They only thing used that was available at the time was an old, (1990) state truck with an Allison auto.... I bit my pride and bought it. It turned out to be good. So two years ago I bought a new Kenworth with an auto..... I must say they have came along ways in 40+ years. The three (2011, (2)2012) ford pickups I've bought have the smoothest trannies I have ever owned. I think the days of manuel transmissions are waning. So with that all said, I will never back away from a vehicle because it has an automatic transmission again... just from MY experience's.
250 and 350 use the same but f450 and larger use bigger diffs brakes heavier suspension etc..
GM had the best brake life a few years ago not sure now days. Hardly anyone puts brakes on there GMs under 100K. Plenty have gone 200K a few 300K+. Thats because you can electronically "tune" a ford trans. On a stock truck the Allison will as long or longer then any of them. The 06+ Allison will hold a fair bit of power. I ran around for a year+ on 500RWHP on miy 06 before I destroy it doing rolling burnout.
My gut tells me that a gas engine is a better deal. All this emissions garbage has no part of the engine visible any more. Even the DOT inspector shook his head when he tried to look at ours and just closed the hood and checked the box on his clipboard. You buy a diesel for several reasons all of which are out the window I think: fuel economy - underhood temperatures - durability and maintenance costs - reduced cost per gallon of fuel - getting my drift here? But I have not been part of a fleet that switched back to gas so I don't know how the dollars and cents shake out, but I do know that I do not like these DPF engines with or without urea. All I am saying is don't just assume diesel is the way to go for a light/medium truck, especially if you will keep it a long time, and if you keep it a short time why spend the extra money? Resale might be pie in the sky, better keep the cash in the pocket. Let me know if I'm all wet here, but please, use some real numbers.
Around here diesel is 79 cents a gallon more than gas. My real numbers are from older trucks, but when I did the math after replacing my c30 with the 350 gas with an F-Super Duty with a 7.3, I found that as long as diesel stayed less than 30 cents higher than gas, my fuel cost was a break even. The bad thing about this is, it is a comparison of a 9300 lb truck to a 16,000 lb truck. At 79 cents, I know it costs more to drive the diesel.
The 6.0 and 6.4 Fords were hit and miss. The new 6.7 Scorpion seems like it's working great. Lots of power and great mileage too. They seem to be fairly trouble free. A few guys I know have one and really like them.
The difference between the cheapest regular gas and diesel in my area is $.48 per gallon, cheapest premium gas and diesel is $.17 a gallon. (using gas buddy.com) My 6.7 on the HWY running 75 mph, I can get 18 mpg. Last time I was at the scrap yard my trucks dry weight was 9000+ lbs, which I am a little skeptical of - I don't think it ways that much but that's another issue. I carry a 90 gal L tank, big tool box and various crap in the back so I am probably 8K lbs give or take. While towing a T250 I can average 13 mpg if I don't get on it. Had a '99 F250 with the V10 and I would average 12 mpg on the HWY and 9 mpg towing. The milage I drive per year varies so much depending on where the jobs are located so I haven't kept up with actual miles driven. Currently have 10.5K miles on the odo on my 6.7 and it's been a great truck. The power this engine produces is nothing short of phenomenal, the strongest diesel pickup I have owned and it's bone stock. Taking into account the difference in diesel and gas in my area and the mpg I get with the diesel it was the right choice for me, might not be for someone else. The new V10's might be better on fuel economy than my 99 but I wouldn't trade. The diesel cost me an additional $4K after the final numbers came in, one can negotiate a better price than standard retail up charge for the diesel. My pickup is a rolling office, shop, tow vehicle, etc. I only have 2 pickups, '13 6.7 and '01 7.3, and sometimes that's one too many.:cool2
Now if you could only get a 6 speed stick in the Ford. I wanted a new F350 with a Powerstroke, no stick available anymore so I wound up with a 2005 and a worked over souped up 6.0 liter with all the factory problems fixed after market.
My '06 6.0 had the EGR delete, programmer, upgraded HPOP and I was about to put an exhaust on it when it was totaled or I would still be driving it. Personally I wouldn't drive a manual - in too much heavy traffic everyday to be shifting gears, although if I ran wide open spaces a manual would be nice.
Cm1995.... my 2011 F350 crew, long box weights in at 8250 w/0 anything on board but a two way radio.... so if you have anything onboard the 9000 lbs is believable. And that's with me out of the truck .
About that 6-speed... I have a '92 F-Super Duty with a brand new from the IH dealer 7.3 that I got for trading something I didn't want anyway. The transmission is rough, so I was looking at replacing the 5 spd with a six, hoping for another overdrive. When I checked into it, I found that it only had one overdrive, equal to mine, and basically the same granny low. My question is, is the 6 really much better in pickup with an engine capable of turning north of 3000 rpm?
I hear ya Gramps, I was just a bit surprised to see the tare weight plus always skeptical of that particular scrap yard. F350 crew, long bed, 4x4 with all the crap in the back mentioned above would come in at 9K + lbs. So with that being said, being able to hit 18 MPG on the HWY isn't bad after all. BTW that included me, another 200 lbs.
This is all good info for my future , I'm still driving 1984 one ton daily . 80 miles every day .
Haven driven both I much prefer the 6 speed. Closer splits and lower reverse are much more to my liking, but I am not sure if the swap from one to another requires a different bell housing.
I have a 2012 F350 crew, long bed, 4x4 (Lariat but that probably makes no difference here) that I bought new (took delivery about 12 months ago). I am coming out of a '00 F350 (same configuration except XLT trim) with +/- 275,000 miles. I love the new truck. I have not had any issues or problems. I am a little concerned about snow plowing. The truck has too much power for the weight. I am afraid I won't be able to get enough traction when it spools up. Regardless, I am getting better mileage than the old 7.3l.The computer is saying 18-19 MPG most of the time. When I check actual vs computer the actual is usually 1 MPG less. My driving conditions are rural mountain roads and town driving. No interstates closer than 2-3 hours away. 17 to 18 MPG around town is pretty good. The 7.3 was usually around 15MPG. 2x the HP and better MPG to boot! I have used it to tow, and on the interstate. When towing anything significant I drop to about 10MPG (towing a 10,000# RV trailer to Idaho at 75 MPH). I took a trip to Kansas,to visit son's family, and only got about 16MPG (per computer) at 75-85MPH. This was when the truck only had about 3,000 miles on it so maybe it would do better now (still only has 11,000 miles). The only complaint I have is an occasional turbo lag and a very touchy accelerator pedal. I have also noticed that the truck is not very smooth when returning to acceleration after decelerating some. It's almost as if the transmission can't decide what gear to be in (usually chooses too low). I think that the later (2) items will subside when I get more used to the accelerator pedal sensitivity.
I have a 11' 350 6.7 in front of the house, and as cm puts it, it will eat a 7.3's lunch and dinner. Very quiet, powerful, and efficient. It has more balls than the 7.8 in my dump truck. 42k trouble free miles
DGOGDR I haven't experienced the transmission downshifting issues as you have had. My trans shifts smooth up and down but the turbo lag is noticeable. There might be a Ford software update available that could help.
What REV# is your truck? I may check into the software update but must admit I am a little leery. I know a few guys who have done this (in late model Dodges though) and have been rewarded with vey poor MPGs when compared to before the update.
I don't know what REV# my truck is. How do you find out?
Good question. I've heard that there is a website that can help with this. One enters their serial number and the site verifies the job number (also known as build number, or revision number). I'm not sure if it refers to each time the factory tools up for that unit (be it engine or entire vehicle), or if it refers to each time the MFR makes a significant change to the unit. Either way, serious truck guys seem to know what revision there truck, or engine, is (at least from what I've read on truck forums). I asked because I thought you had purchased your truck in '13 so it might be a different revision than mine, and thus may have different programming than mine. I don't know if they have been upgraded, since mine was built (ordered from factory on last day one could still order a '12), or not. Just trying to get as much info as I can. You had stated that yours was acting similar to mine anyway. If yours is a newer revision, and it still does what mine does, what would the advantage of a re-flash be?
Damn, I just re-read my post DGODGR and I should have typed "haven't had the problems". I fixed my post to reflect that. That's the reason why I asked if there were any software updates. I have been working many long days as work has picked up... I got my truck in March of '13, I think the build date was Jan. but I'll check.
Mine was built in late August or early September (delivered to dealer early October) so it may be that yours was an updated version. Mine shifts up and down very well. Smooth, positive engagement. The issue, for me is when getting back into the throttle, like when rounding a corner, and trying to ease back into it smoothly. I feel as though the truck should be a gear higher. It seems as though I must mash the pedal farther than what I am expecting to get it back under acceleration. This makes it hard to do things smoothly. It's not really a big deal. More of a small annoyance.
If you're curious about real world fuel economy while towing and see how much you spend/save compared to the respected diesels gas counterpart then I'd say check this out. It also shows a few different motors from over the years. Such as the 7.3, 6.0, 6.4, 6.7 along with the 5.9 and 6.7 from Dodge and the 6.6 from GM. http://www.hitchanything.com/towing-fuel-economy-infographic.html