Hello everyone. I am purchasing a new loader from my local dealer for our construction company. Of course I been trying to do my homework on the new loader and when I was asking my sales rep about tier 4 engines he said the one he is having delivered has the kabota engine (non tier 4)? It was my understanding that all 15's were tier 4. He told me that the government gave Bobcat x amount of credits for selling so many tier 4's. This allowed Bobcat to use up some of the kabota engines they still have...? I guess my question is has anyone heard of this? I tried researching it myself with no luck. Thanks!
Had not heard of that, seems to me a mis-informed salesman trying to ply a non-existent machine and will displace it with a "we were told it would be different" engine. T4 is T4, some equipment lines are using different catalyst beds that do not require DEF, some have resumed use of exhaust filters that have a regen cycle they must fulfill to stay running properly but they are still T4.
Thanks for your time and help DMiller. I'm under the same impression of the misinformed sales rep. His explanation to me was that "Bobcat sells worldwide and the US is the only country governing emissions. The loader we have coming for you is one that normally sells outside the US". I thought kabota quit selling bobcat their engines...? The loader is supposed to arrive first of the week so I'll hopefully have a better understanding of everything once I see it and have a more thorough sit down with rep. The whole thing just sounded fishy... Thanks again
There is a difference in tier 4 . There is T4i and (interim tier 4 ) and T4 ( tier 4 final) I am not 100 percent sure how bobcat does there emissions but i am pretty sure bobcat T4i is a kubota motor with an egr (exhaust gas recirculation) and dpf (diesel particulate filter) , and that t4 is a doosan motor that uses high pressure common rail injection , egr (exhaust gas recirculation, and a doc ( basically a catalytic converter). I am a big fan of the kubota motors but i would rather go with the doosan motor in this case because it does not have a dpf on it.
On the ever so important engine label I have seen where it says this engine meets Tier X and sometimes there are some words where the mfg invoked credits....when we checked into this we were told by the mfg rep at HQ the credits will have no detrimental effect, that tier X is tier X regardless if the tailpipe meets it or if it was accomplished by paper trade offs. It is a bit hard to drill down to this. This assuming the rep/sales person knows there is a difference in Tier IV final and Tier IV interim! Wouldn't surprise me is tractor model year and engine model year are different especially at the regulatory mile marker years. If this were me, I would look to see what I was getting (or not getting) as a result of the "OEM credits" - did I get a copious EGR system with a DPF where perhaps the other scheme was a more fuel efficient (and more modern plateau) SCR.... We have read where the diesel pickups with the 'DPF only' scheme are technological dinosaurs, the newer pickups are vastly different as they involve newer technology thus combustion process favors PM reduction in the firing with greater efficiency and "those in the know" would skip long term investment into those three model years. It would be me but the economy prevents having to endure this. My only objective to look into all this would be: how does any one system affect resale value how does any system affect the availability of repair parts, especially in light of the magnitude of the changes compared to the volume (low) of machines sold what system is most reliable is there some local regulation that would favor a certain tier over another According to my JD dealer, he has two types of customers: those that were simply taught and believe that new is a good & worthy aspiration and they don't concern with details, and those who greatly fear paying for costly repairs to a technologically unique invention. I would be in the latter category. Perhaps the pay for new or pay for a mechanic Rule means they will trade the new one off for another new(er) one when it becomes a problem (ie post warranty). Reading school bus forums on their experiences with the once stone reliable DT466 can be an eye opener to the diesel emission technology and associated warranty work... For the cautious minded - Renting and leasing seem to be a consideration more than other times: aka "Dont know ya, dont wanna be ya" translates into Dont wanna own ya. Tough crystal ball business.
Thanks again Hitachi225 and Oceanobob, great knowledge and info! I'm knowledgable in the concrete field but need the help in the mechanical world which is why I came here in search of advice. I will be taking this info with me to the dealer. Great points and thanks again!!!
Your salesman is telling you the truth, I've never posted before but there is just so much mis-information out there. Yes Bobcat is final Tier4 with the T590s. It's a Bobcat/Doosan engine. However the factory has allotted a certain number of iT4 engines to be put in a few 2015 models because of the credits your salesman told you about. The iT4 engine is a Kubota engine. There is no DPF in anything Bobcat makes old or new under 75 HP. Which a T590 as I'm sure you know is 66HP. As I've read and never posted before, the amount of Uneducated info out there is scary which is why you need to do lots of research. The salesman was telling you the truth, don't know why he'd lie or others would think he's miss informed. It's his job to know this stuff. Also I'd tell you this iT4 machine he has will be very sought after by others who do not believe in the new Bobcat engine. So if you want it I wouldn't wait to long... Just my 2 cents
It is my understanding that Bobcat and Doosan can't / couldn't get together on the price of the new tier4 engine that is to be used in the bigger machines. Bobcat has government credits and will produce some 2015 machines (700 -800) with the old tier3 Kubota engines. The engines are the old mechanical injection pump unit not the common rail iT4 system. I don't think you can order one of this unless your dealer already has them in his system.
There are many twists and turns in the EPA regs, and exceptions and programs and allowances, oh my! I plan to be using Tier 3 for several more years as I will probably never exceed the yearly allowances for small production, and if it finally comes to pass I need to move to T4 final, I will either switch to natural gas or use multiple 74 hp diesels to get what I need, as so far the little guys don't use SCR, no DEF (pig urine) for me, thank you sir!