Just purchased this yesterday. It's a 2019 Deere 75G with 520 hours. I'll post more pictures of it in action soon. And probably lots of repair and maintenance questions as they come up also. Here is some background info about how I picked this machine: HeavyEquipmentForums
Any idea who owned before you? I’m guessing a utility company based on the street pads and buckets?
From what the salesman said, it was owned by a gentleman for use on his own property. Apparently he wants a smaller machine. Also, it seems like most of these size machines come with the rubber shoes by default.
Great choice! I had my eye on one as a feed machine for our plant. Very popular in our area! Personally I would take that style of boom over the 85g…
Agreed. Personally I don't understand the fad of swing booms on bigger machines. I think I've even seen pictures of some 13 ton machines with them. Total nonsense on a machine that size.
Takeuchi makes the TB2150. 16 metric ton swing boom machine.
Taki also makes a 2150R with a conventional boom.
New machine looks good, that size class is one I've had my eye on for awhile. x3 on the boom, I like a swing boom on a machine for digging footers or tight/complicated digging jobs, but for anything larger than a 6-ton I'd prefer a mono boom.
This will help me not go crazy every time I touch the travel pedals:
I do the same on the machines I own. On busy noisy sites I can see some point of them though.
This popped up twice so far, both times under the exact same situation - traveling forward up a steep hill. Both times it went away after shutting down and restarting. Is there a way to pull up codes from the screen, or do I need a scanner?
I can't help with the codes, but are the coolant and engine oil levels exactly right? Might not be anything to do with it, but I've had same thing on couple of machines and it's been fluid levels.
Post your picture with fault code problem on a separate message. Post the machine serial number and maybe Nige has a way to retrieve codes without ET on your machine. Simon C
We would get wrote up and the machine out of service for that. Hell we even had a brick mason run to the safety man because the alarm on our T250 wasn't working - ****.
From the Deere 75G Operators manual . Link to the troubleshooting page below. Operator's Manual View Operator's Manual View techinfo-omview.apps-prod-vpn.us.e06.c01.johndeerecloud.com
By the picture in the beginning it looks like it is a JOHN DEERE not a CAT. ET won't work on it.
Sorry I was thinking about a different machine and forgot to look at picture again. Therefore Diesel Dave solved the problem. Simon C
They are between the low and full marks when level and cold. Now that you mention it, I noticed that the engine temperature gauge rises to the normal operating temperature very quickly after starting the engine. I would expect it to take 10+ minutes of idling for the temperature to rise from a cold start. I haven't timed it, but I would guess it is up to the mid range within 2 minutes or less of starting.
Thank goodness I don't have to deal with that sort of thing.
Thanks Dave, I will check that tomorrow and report back with codes.
Try this first. Ignition on, press and hold the #9 button and press the dial down once. Release the button. Turn dial to get to and highlight the service menu, press the dial once to enter. Highlight troubleshooting, press the dial once to enter. You will see a list of controllers. The one that has a number besides 0 in the parenthesis is the one you want to highlight and enter (most likely the engine controller). Post any codes you find.
congrats @materthegreater and good on you guys for helping out. Nice size rig a fella can take a pretty big job on with that. It is really not that much less than a 120 and can get into some tighter places. And for sure easier to Mobilize.
Engine: Information: Main:
I should have mentioned earlier that the batteries were bad and the machine was jumped at the dealer a few times to get it to start. So some of these codes may be a result of trying to start it with low batteries. I've cleared all the codes and will watch to see which ones come back. Thanks for all the input!
Code 157-18 came back within half an hour of operating today. Sure is frustrating that these things never show up when testing out the machine before purchase!
A quick search shows it is low fuel pressure. I will start with changing the filters.
New filter is a little smaller diameter than the original. Nasty little booger in the old filter...
I bled the fuel filters and started it and idled it for 10 minutes or so. Then I put a load on it and the same code came up. Any ideas of what to check next?
Any place to tee in a pressure gauge after the filter?
Yes I think I could, also, I can pull up the common rail pressure on the monitor. This was before the check engine warning came on:
What @Columbo said^^^^. Need to rule out the supply side (tank/fuel lines/inlet fittings to filters/transfer pump). Starving for fuel can set that DTC. The tank does have a sump drain valve. What comes out of there?
Ok, I'll see if I can figure out how to get a gauge in there. Would a hydraulic pressure gauge work ok? What pressure range should I be expecting? I did open the tank drain. There was a little bit of sediment and a very small amount of water, and then clean fuel.
Fuel pressure spec is 1.5-4.3 psi. It should be 1 psi or higher under full load.
Ok that's a lot lower than I expected. I'll have to try to find a different gauge to use.
In the mean time, what would be the next step if the supply pressure is sufficient?
Just out of curiosity, was there any sort of warranty on this machine from the dealer when you bought it? Even 30-60 days?
Apparently it was a commission sale. So sold as is. However, it seems wrong to sell something without disclosing all faults. The service menu on the machine shows how many times this error message came up, so I know they knew about the problem.
It gets a bit more complicated if that is the case. It can get complicated if the pressure is low as well. So let's eliminate the supply side first.
Ok, I'll let you know the results once I find an appropriate gauge.
I have a fuel pressure gauge not being used I could loan you. If you’re interested, PM me and we can work out the details.
Thanks for the offer! I've asked two guys locally so if neither has one I may take you up on it. What type of fitting does it have?
This is the setup I have, I believe the gauge is 1/4 male NPT and I have an adapter down to 1/8 male NPT. I had it setup on my cat excavator when I was chasing a fuel issue. Let me know if you’re interested in using it.
Thanks for the offer. I was able to find a 0-15 psi gauge which should make it easier to read if the pressure drops below 1 psi. I'm hooking it up now.
Just over 1 psi at idle It drops to basically 0 when a load is applied.
You’re welcome! Waiting to hear the results…
Well, I guess that’s pretty clear….
Thanks for the idea to check this. Could it be as simple as a bad lift pump? Or is there some sort of regulator in the filter housing that is supposed to maintain proper pressure?
I’ll let on of the Deere guys chime in, but if it were me I’d disassemble every hose and fitting from your test point back to the tank and blow each one out with brake cleaner then compressed air. If you blow them into a clean bucket you’ll see if any crap comes out. Also, look for possible air leaks along the way. Then, reassemble, prime the system and retest. If you still have a low reading I’d suspect the lift pump. Someone more familiar with Deeres may have a specific place to check or know of an inline screen filter like Cat likes to hide in there.
I disconnected the hose coming from the fuel tank and blew through it with compressed air to make sure that it wasn't partially plugged (fuel was gushing out before and after blowing it out but I wanted to be sure). I bypassed the suction filter/water separator and connected the inlet of the pump directly to the supply hose from the tank. Then I put the gauge on the output of the pump (not teed, but deadheaded) and it will build almost 4.5 psi. That's as far as I've gotten today.
Going back to what @mg2361 posted, looks like the high spec is 4.3 psi? Seems like the pump is building the correct pressure, but I wonder if the deadheading alters the pressure reading vs teed into the line?
With the gauge tee'd so you can run the engine, what is the fuel pressure at key on, engine off? Fuel pressure should never reach zero when under load. DTC 157.18 (P0094) Rail Pressure Deviation Error During the Actual Rail Pressure Drop. Check your messages. (both of you)
@mg2361 thank you for the detailed test instructions! @materthegreater , looks like you’ve got the next steps laid out pretty well.
Thanks @mg2361 that is very helpful. I don't have a big enough umbrella to hide the machine under so further testing will have to wait until the rain stops. I'll report back with the results. And thanks @Columbo for your help also.
Keep us posted!
A little progress today. I did the flow test for the transfer pump, and it flows about twice the minimum volume - filled a 16 oz pyrex in about 30 seconds (going through both filters). Next I started trying to access the high pressure pump so I can get the gauge installed in the recommended location instead of at the filter head where I had it previously. I ran out of time before I was able to get it connected and do the pressure tests.
Ok, I gained access to the injection pump and put the tee and gauge in the recommended locations, using clear hose. Here are the results: Key on engine off: 4 psi Key on engine idle: 1.5 psi High idle no load: 1 psi High idle under load: 0 Moving on to check tank outlet, though I'm doubtful that it's the problem because it passed the flow test going through both filters.
I cleaned the fuel tank outlet and the final filter head. No obstructions at either. Same results at the gauge. My next thought is replace the transfer pump. Even though it flows well at no pressure, and it builds proper pressure at KOEO, it doesn't seem to be able to maintain pressure and flow simultaneously.
Now, why would they have it listed as a 12v pump? The machine is clearly 24v.
Interesting. Don't know. That pump is used on many machines, both 12 and 24 volt. Our parts system does not list specifications for that pump.
I assume there are two different pumps, surely the same one can't run on both 12 and 24 volt? Is my thinking correct that I should try replacing the pump next?
@materthegreater , I think Deere included that AT318139 pump in the 75G catalog by mistake . I believe the 24 volt version is part # MIU802991 . See screenshot below.
Based on your tests, I would replace the lift pump as the next logical step. Certainly before going further into the high pressure system in my opinion.
So I ordered a new pump from the dealer earlier this week, specifically asking the salesman if it was a 24 volt pump. He said it didn't say, but was listed for my machine so it must be. They called to say it was in yesterday, so I picked it up this morning and it was the AT318139 pump. But nowhere on the box did it say anything about voltage, and the connector fits the machine, so I installed it. It didn't go up in smoke immediately, but it also didn't give any better pressure results than the original pump. Now I'm stumped as to how it can provide the proper flow, and it can build the proper pressure, but somehow can't do it when the engine is running.
What about the MIU802991 Diesel Dave posted in #61?
So is it still these results?: Key on engine off: 4 psi Key on engine idle: 1.5 psi High idle no load: 1 psi High idle under load: 0 If the lift pump and flow is good, it's letting a lot of fuel flow when at high idle? Where's it going...
Did you ask for the MIU802991 pump? There are 10 available in the Deere parts depot in Grimsby, which serves your local dealers. If the pressure drops off at full throttle, and the suction side from the tank to the HP pump is good, the issue may be in the high pressure fuel system. Please provide the machine serial number.
I ordered over the phone and they didn't tell me the part number. I did ask if they needed the serial number and he said no, it's the same for all 75G machines. Yes, approximately. Where it's going is exactly what I'm wondering. My first thought was that the original pump was just getting tired and the pressure was dropping off at the higher flow demand. I didn't ask for a specific part number, I told him I needed a pump for a 75G, and asked if it was a 24v pump. The machine serial number is 1FF075GXJJJ016799
Just for kicks, I tried pinching off the return line and the pressures remained higher, and it gave error message 157-15, which appears to be high fuel rail pressure. So I'm wondering if there's a problem with whatever regulates the pressure. What does regulate the pressure anyway?
Better keep an eye on your engine oil level. Pinching the fuel return on HPCR fuel systems can blow out the shaft seal on the HP pump.
Hopefully that didn't happen. I didn't see the gauge go higher than 4.5 psi. How is the pressure supposed to be regulated in this system?
Did you check the fuel volume test with the new pump? Seems like you might need to dive into the high pressure/electrical sensor/wiring side after all, unfortunately. I re-read the trouble shooting procedure @mg2361 supplied and it looks like there are some simple tests that can be done. However, some of the other tests seem to require service advisors to complete, mainly to monitor pressures? Can a regular fuel pressure gauge of the appropriate specs be installed temporarily somewhere on the common rail if service advisor is not available?
I have not checked the volume with the new pump. I may not be fully understanding the entire troubleshooting procedure, but the way I read it is that the high pressure tests only come into play once the low pressure side is within the specified ranges. This quote below from the guide seems to be pointing to the "rail limiter". I'm not sure what or where that is. I think the next thing I'm going to try is replacing all the rubber fuel lines. Am I missing something from the troubleshooting procedure?
Sorry, I guess I overlooked the fact you still had 0 psi at high idle with the new pump. No bueno. That said, the section you quoted from the troubleshooting instructions seems like the next step.
In looking at the fuel diagram, I believe that the fuel limiter is another name for the main rail relief. See below from the troubleshooting-
Good catch. I was thinking that there was a separate pressure regulator for the low side and high side, but it doesn't sound like it.
Unfortunately, no. Only the low pressure side can be pressure tested with gauges.
The electric fuel pump is self regulating.
Ok, that makes sense. So if the pressure drops below the specified values and all the lines are clear, then it must be loosing too much volume somewhere which prevents it from maintaining proper pressure?
Does this common rail pressure from the monitoring screen read the same value that Service Advisor would read? This is in MPa but it converts to 117 psi. Is this close enough to the desired zero value? If not, I guess it means the sensor is bad?
Presuming that the monitoring screen is reading the correct value, I tried wiggling the wire at the connector and didn't see any difference. So then I tested the voltages as explained below. Both were approximately 5v. I also checked the wiring harnesses near the ECU, because there was evidence of mouse activity in the area. All the wiring looked good.
Yes. Start with the rail pressure sensor per the instructions. It needs to be ruled out.
Thanks, that eliminates the need to get someone to come connect to the machine with Service Advisor at this point anyway. I will order the sensor today.
So the sensor arrived and I plugged it into the harness before installing it. KOEO value was about 25 psi. So I removed the old one and installed the new one. KOEO with it installed (and lift pump running of course) was about 52 psi. I then started the engine and ran it at low idle for a minute. Now the supply pressure is showing 0 or close to 0 psi even at idle, but still about 4 psi KOEO. I shut off the engine and let it sit for a while and then checked rail pressure and it seems to be settling down to about 52 psi (immediately after shutting it off and checking the rail pressure again showed about 150 psi. It must be retaining some pressure for a little while after shutting down). Earlier I checked for return leakage from the rail limiter and none showed up at idle. I have not yet checked that under high load.
Another question: how does the sensor seal to the rail? After restarting I'm getting some leakage between the sensor and the rail. The old one had some whitish goo on it which I assumed was just sludge buildup, but maybe it was some sort of sealant? I had assumed there would be an o-ring or some sort of seal but didn't see one. Maybe I just didn't torque it enough, does Deere list a torque spec for the sensor?
Interesting ! I can find the torque spec of every sensor but the rail sensor. On Deere engines they are approximately 104-118 FTLB (there is actually an initial torque, then a torque turn). Most sensors do not use a gasket or sealant. Grease is sometimes spec'd for the threads.
Thanks, I tightened it to 110 ft lbs and it doesn't seem to be leaking now. I checked return leakage next and there was a negligible amount of fuel in the test hose, probably just residual from the fitting: While testing that, I watched the rail pressure and it didn't drop anywhere near 20 MPa as stated in the troubleshooting guide: So now I'm confused. Are there other criteria that can set the 157-18 code?
Also, after replacing the sensor, it won't start right up, but cranks for while before firing. Is that just because there is some air in the rail that will be purged after a running for a bit?
I read that as “if the minimum pressure is 20MPa or less for 5 seconds” it sets the code. So if I understood you right, you’re not seeing a pressure drop? Do you still have the code when running?
Correct, while watching the pressure on the screen, I tracked the machine around until the code came up and the pressure varied from about 40 MPa to over 100. It didn't drop below 40 even for a split second. Once it triggers, the check engine warning stays on until the machine is shut off.
There was no fuel flow from the rail relief, correct? Actually, they did not explain that well. The DTC means that the actual rail pressure was lower than the desired rail pressure by 20 MPa for more than 3 seconds.
Correct, there was nothing but a few drops of residual fuel from the rail relief. I don't remember seeing desired rail pressure as an option in the monitoring menu. It would be nice to be able to see them side by side.
I changed one exactly the same on a 210G last fall and the threads were without o-ring or sealant of any kind. Has not leaked since. It ran perfectly right away after without any issues. Was hard to get at with the counter weight on is all I need to remember. Simon C
It would be nice, right. The larger machines have a reading that says something like rail deviation. On your machine, the desired can only be seen with Service Advisor. Since you have no rail relief leakage, you are down to an injector leak test, or suction control valve. You did check the wiring for damage, correct?
I'm planning to do the injector leak test soon. I didn't realize that SCV stands for suction control valve. It should be removed and cleaned, or is there a test procedure for it? Yes I checked the wiring near the ECU. I unwound the tape and inspected the wires as well as I could without separating them from the connectors. No evidence of chafing or mouse chewing.
Removed and inspected like the instructions mention. If there is metal, you will need a HP pump. The only test procedure we have is to monitor actual/desired with Service Advisor. Usually a sticky SCV will have a very erratic reading compared to the desired. We use a chart rather than a number reading because it will show the issue in a much clearer picture.
Ok. So does the SCV control the rail pressure? Looks like the chance of rain tapers off overnight so I should be able to work on it tomorrow. Any ideas on the extended crank time after the sensor replacement?
Today it started normally, no extended crank. Hopefully it was just air needing to be purged. Injector leak results in 1 minute and 3 seconds: (that's a 12 oz can)
I did the high pressure pump leakage test next. I couldn't fit a big enough container in the space for a whole minute, so I timed 45 seconds instead, with 20oz as the result. So that is a little over the maximum allowed amount of 18.75 oz in 45 seconds or 25 oz in a minute. Removing the SCV next.
I can’t quite see on my phone, is that a bunch of crap in the scv?
With excessive leakage, it sounds like you may be headed for a new pump.
The camera didn't focus on the screen unfortunately. There are a few pieces of some sort of non magnetic sediment or something on the screen but I could find no metal particles.
I was afraid of that. Is there any way to confirm this since there were no metal particles on the SCV?
I am not up to speed on this thread since the purchase but is this a common failure on a 520 hour machine?
Only with the leakage test. The debris, even non-metallic, is still concerning. No, it is not common, but we have seen some HP pump failures on Yanmar's earlier than expected, but those were on skid steers. We move a lot of 75/85 size machines here in our area, I can only think of one HP pump replacement on those.
I went to the local Deere dealer to get a quote for diagnostics and replacing the high pressure pump. Almost $11k. Apparently the counterweight and engine need to be removed to replace the pump. I talked with some friends who work at, or have worked in equipment dealer service departments in the past and they encouraged me to double check the supply side before taking it to the dealer. In the process, I discovered that there is minimal fuel flow returned to the fuel tank with KOEO - basically a dribble. Is that how it should be, or is there a restriction somewhere causing this? I pulled the supply line at the high pressure pump and it flows a full hose there (going through both filters), but the return from the high pressure pump is very low (with koeo).
Yep. Should increase significantly if the engine were started.
Any updates, @materthegreater ? Saw your front idler troubles with the mecalec reminded me of this thread
Thanks for the reminder, I've been neglecting updates on this thread. After getting the estimate from the local Deere dealer, I passed it along to the salesman I bought the machine from to ask if they would pay for getting it repaired here (the dealer I bought it from is not a Deere dealer and he originally told me they couldn't help with diagnosing it because they don't have Deere software). He replied telling me to bring it back to them and they would look at it since they are a Yanmar dealer and it has a Yanmar engine. I figured that the only way I'll have a chance at getting any help with the cost of parts or repairs in by bringing it to them, so I sent it back on the 2nd of July. I haven't heard anything from them since so I need to check in tomorrow.
That's expensive. It cost $10K for the Cat dealer to R&R the counterweight on our 321 in order to replace the A/C compressor, dryer, etc along with a new oil pan gasket and ran through the overhead.
I know Chappell Tractor has had it for a long time but I didn't expect it would have aged this much
I was wondering about this saga, so it’s back at Chappell? They finally gave you a loaner or did you break down and go back to the era of simple excavators?
Now that’s my kind of machine!
When the Mecalac was down because of the hydraulic cylinder, a friend was very generous and offered me to use this. Kinda ironic that I own two machines and I still have to borrow one. My 75 has been at Chappell since July 2.
No check engine light with this one.
Where do you put the DEF?
Right next to the diagnostic port
How is the performance
How did you meet the sales person
The 40+ year old machine works better than the 7 year old machine right now.
I walked in the door and asked if they had any used machines for sale and he's the one that came to show me what they had.
A more complete update: The 75 has been at Chappell since July 2. After almost two weeks (on July 14) I hadn't heard anything so I emailed and they responded saying they had parts on order with no other explanation. Then on August 4 I received another email saying they had a wiring harness on order with no other explanation. Then a week ago (August 14) I was in the area visiting our good friends at NH hydraulics so I stopped at Chappell unannounced to see what was going on. The salesman, service manager and mechanic that had been working on it were all off that day but someone else in the service department told me what he knew about it and brought me into the shop to look at it (it does still exist!). From what he said, it sounded like they had been waiting quite a while for the wiring harness to come from Deere. But it had finally arrived and been installed, but the mechanic had found a connector in the cab that wasn't making a reliable connection. They were expecting that connector to arrive that day, or Monday of this week, and the guy I talked to seemed to think it would be ready to go after that was installed. Then today I received an email from the service manager saying that the injectors had been sent out for testing, with no mention of the wiring harness or anything else.
I guess I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are being thorough? But that doesn’t help you in the short term when you want to use it to make money!
That means, they are still throwing parts at it. Next, it will have a sink ordered.
Exactly.
Next week I will have owned this machine for 4 months, and put about 10 hours on it (most of which were troubleshooting). I'm tired of giving them benefits of doubt!
Just found this thread as I have not been on the forum in a while. What a drag! Sorry to read about your troubles and I hope they get it sorted out soon.
Thanks. We will see. Are you in Southern NH and maybe dealt with them at all?
Yesterday I received another update: "Injectors tested good. We are ordering the injection pump." Funny, that's what I told them it needed 2 months ago, based on the diagnostic help from @mg2361 .
Fingers crossed!
Lake Sunapee area......I have no real experience with them but have got estimates. They typically have a good reputation from what I hear though. Hopefully they get your injection pump soon and you get your machine back.