Hello everyone thank you for taking your time in reading this. i have a 2021 299d3 that i am having a hell of a time with here are all my issues and what has been done start the tractor and sometimes it will idle perfect until I turn up the idle past 1700 rpm then it will drop and rev up and down by its self and the tractor will not move other times I start it up and immediately it will just rev by itself up and down. it will not stay at a constant idl. because of this it say major fuel leak and Dow def system has to be forced regen because con are not met. now what I have done. i have replaced the fuel cap lift pump blew out all fuel lines. replaced fuel filter. had a computer connected and the tech was saying everything is reading fine. tonight I installed another lift pump just in case the other one was bad. i started the machine it did its erratic idle then it came out of it. I let the machine warm up and very slowly turned up the idle. I got it to 1750 rpm and it was running fine… then all of a sudden it just completely shut off and now will not start. I was thinking a high pressure pump but I’m not sure. any help would be appreciated thank you. sn#DY904968
Exactly what Codes are coming up on the screen.? Can you post a full list please. You mean the electric priming pump.? That is only designed to fill the system after a filter change. FYI the lift/fuel transfer pump is located inside the HP fuel pump. From the list of what you have done so far the only other things that may be worth checking are to drain any water/sediment from the fuel tank and to check all the internal passages in the head of the fuel filter for blockages.
Thank you Nige for your response here is all active codes 3701-0 DPF status high (3) 1239-2 DPF #1 conditions not met for active regeneration 1239-1 engine fuel leakage 1 low most severe (3) yes I was talking about the pump on top of my filter I have replaced
That's not the lift/transfer pump in that case. What I suggested above regarding fuel tank and fuel filter head. If that does not produce the desired results then I fear you could be in for an HP pump replacement. Not cheap...........
Well I found what is wrong. I pulled off the fuel pressure regulator and found the spring is broken. Is there any company that just sells this part. I refuse to use cat and pay $3k for a new pump
That pump is manufactured by Denso if I'm not mistaken. Maybe a Denso injection specialist.?
You are correct I talked to them last night and they said they cant sell any parts for this pump to the public because of the contract they have with kabota/cat. Which is completely stupid. So I have been looking since then for anything online even aftermarke. But I’m running into I have no part number.
The only thing I can suggest is to superglue the pieces back together so that you can get some measurements such as....... Free length Number of coils Outside diameter Spring wire diameter With those measurements it ought to be possible (maybe not easily) to get hold of a spring with similar proprerties to the original. It's hard to tell but judging by the photos a valve spring of some sort might fit the bill.
That is what I was thinking…. I am going to go into business to make a kit for these and sell the hell out of them…
I was told by someone I know a while back that the HP pump could be purchased thru a Kubota dealer cheaper than what Cat wants for it. Might be an avenue to try out.
I got lucky on parts for a Mitsubishi in a Cat. Called a marine place for parts. With the Cat prefix the knew it was in a Cat machine. He did let it slip that a xxx prefix was the same and he’d gladly sell me parts for that. If you can figure out what marine generator or similar engine shared parts you might get lucky that way.
Shouldn't be too hard to find a failed transfer pump with a good spring. Got a part number off the pump? Or a machine s/n? THIS one will be close.
If in fact it is a Denso part, they’re pretty good at putting the part number on the part/s.. You’ll have to use some paint/gasket remover to get thru the paint.. a wire wheel will take the PN off.. Good luck
Was the part No. found? Think I have the same problem.
Same comments as earlier still apply. Go looking closely at the sensor for a Denso Part Number. A judicious application of paint remover may be your friend. There is no breakdown of the Cat Part number for the complete fuel rail assembly anywhere. However this is a Kubota engoine and therefore maybe a Kubota dealer might offer up other possible solutions. For sure the KB price even for a complete rail assembly would be less than Cat.
Is there the nine CAT part number for the pump anywhere?
With a machine Serial Number it should be easy enough to find that Part Number. TBH there ought to be a Denso Part Number on a plate on the pump somewhere. Let's face it they manufactured it for Cat.
A non part number was supposed to be. I can’t get access to the pump yet and have a guy looking at it for me
Sorry I have no idea what you mean by that. Do you have the Serial Number of the machine you are working on.?
Sorry. A part number which isn’t Cats. I.e Kubota as it’s a Kubota engine I believe? DX204524
Gotcha. Sorry I don't have one. The Cat Part Number for the HP fuel pump is 465-6884. If you can find a Kubota engine dealer (as opposed to machinery) then give them these details and ask for a Kubota Part Number for the pump. The engine model is a V3800, the Serial Number of your particular engine is 2JU3940. I would suggest NOT to tell them that engine is installed in a Cat machine because they might just cop out and tell you to go to Cat for the parts. Just tell them "I'm looking for the P/N of the HP fuel pump on a V3800 engine, Serial Number 2JU3940 - can you help.?"
Try Kubota 1J508-50500. Newest number 1j508-50503 same as Kubota svl95-2 Final tier 4 with Def, denso HP5 pump. Messicks lists at $2888 Unfortunately our cost as an engine dealer is not that much lower on this particular item.
So this is what has happened.
Changed the cogs and tried to line up the flywheel with the dots but nothing.
There is a little bit more to it than that…… Would you like the full procedure.?
Yes please
Can you clarify please. Do you mean you can't line up the marks or do you mean the engine won't start after lining up the marks.? The issue is that the engine should have been timed BEFORE you started disassembling anything. Effectively what you are doing is a HP fuel pump R&I but without actually removing the HP pump. NOTE: You have to set TDC on cylinder #4, not the more usual cylinder #1.
After you lose timing you have no choice but to remove the cover and re-time from scratch, all the way to the crankshaft gear.
The engine wouldn’t fire after lining up. The “fitter / mechanic” rotated the flywheel only to the dots. Apparently he hoped that it wasn’t far out when the cogs went. The fuel pump isn’t on a key with the cog. Is there a way to see where it needs to be?
When you say start from scratch. You mean take cover off as in pic? Or just get cylinder 4 TDC?
AFAIK you will have to remove front timing cover and line up the timing marks, starting at the crankshaft. The reason is that there is no timing pin on the pump, so TDC doesn't help. If there is a way to use Niges' procedure once timing is lost I am not aware of it.
No there isn't. The idea is to time everything BEFORE it is pulled apart. As mentioned by @ozarkag the front cover has to come off and all the gears in the photo below have to be timed as a starting point, then move to the gears for the HP fuel pump. EDIT: Cross your fingers that you will find timing marks. According to the procedure there may not be any. In that case the engine will have to be timed working from 1st principles which may be beyond the capability of your fitter.
We had this very issue on a 299 D3 and it was a froze up pump. Got a used one for a grand on ebay and it works good again.
The spring was broken, as in the first pictures, and we replaced it. If anyone needs this spring for the injection pump, we have that one in stock.
Same problem here. I contacted Denso Global office. No luck. Bought a new pump from Cat dealer. $2942 usd. They regard the pump as an “unserviceable part”!!!!! Asked service manager to save me one if they have one they replaced. Said he couldn’t do that.
That's probably because Denso told them that. Remember Cat don't make the pump. If Denso don't supply repair parts for it then it's gonna be hard for Cat to offer them for sale. Just sayin'.
Yes sir. There is a proprietary agreement between Denso/Kubota/Cat.
Sir, I was reading this thread and after inspection of mine, I have found the spring is broken. I would like to purchase one of them. Do you have a way for me to contact you to order one?
He is on ebay.
Where can I get ahold of you?
[email protected] be the easiest way to get me
Would you be able to send me information we have a broken spring on a 299D3 also and can’t find a spring without a whole pump
Yes sir. I am sending a screenshot from my purchase. The vendor is shown at the top. It is on ebay.
Thank you! I will look him up, I did send an email too.
I started to buy 2-3 when I bought mine but really didn’t think I would use them. I am going to install in the pump I took off and put it back on my machine.
Did you try nevinsteiner?
Yes I messaged him
What is the part number for that smaller gear
Need a machine Serial Number to locate the Part Number of the gear.
Pump lock up?
Bx900585, studs broke on pump, leaking diesel fuel behind pump. Haven’t taken any parts off yet, but judging by diesel fuel coming from that area, the pump is cracked or coming apart
FIP Pump gear Part Number for that machine Serial Number is listed as 482-8472. Make sure that the engine is correctly timed, both at the flywheel end and the front timing gears, before you pull anything apart. IIRC this thread contains the instructions for both. When you get the front cover off you may find devastation in the timing gear train. I hope I'm wrong.
Is there a way to find TDC without pulling the cover on the c 3.8. If not does anyone have the procedure on pulling the cover?
And also, what makes you think that there may be damage on the timing gear train. There is no damage on the pump gear that is visible. Or the smaller gear inside of the cogs. Just want to replace them in case they were weakened. I’m hoping to get away with changing the pump the gear pump with the small gear. Oil change, then pour a gallon of oil in and let it drain out the bottom. Install a magnetized drain plug run it for five minutes then do an additional oil change. And replace fuel filters and drain fuel tank and run gallons of fuel through and drain.
Your comment "studs broke on pump". If that happens there would likely have been some degree of misaligment between the pump gear and the intermediate gear which could potentially damage other gears in the timing gear train. I also said - "I hope I'm wrong." If you read this thread right from the start you will become aware that a Cat dealer (of all people) messed up on an FIP pump replacement on an identical engine to yours by failing to time the engine correctly BEFORE removing the pump. Everything in the service manual indicates that both these procedures should be carried out before removing the FIP. Failure to do this might lead you into exactly the same hole that the OP of this thread found himself in through no fault of his own. See attached. Note that the procedure calls out to set #4 cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke rather than the more normal #1 cylinder. I would suggest not to try to do this job half-assed otherwise it may come back and bite you in the proverbial. Tear the engine down as far as you need to in order to make sure it's right. My 2c. YMMV.
Noticed that when I read the R&I a while back. Wonder how many people were caughjt with the usual Top Dead Center of #1. I always wonder on something I haven't worked on if Number 1 is at the fan end or flywheel end. Deutz is famous for that and has fooled a lot of people. Good to have pointed this out for CP921. He may thank you later. Simon C
TDC on #1 or #4 it makes no difference when the procedure tells you that if the marks on the timing gears do not line up when the marks on the flywheel end are correct then you should rotate the engine 360 deg and check again.
Yes you are correct, the only problem is that sometimes people forget to see what the manufacturer calls number one, whether the fan end or flywheel end and then can't figure out how come the marks do not line up. But I do get your point, hopefully more people will read these postings and put it in their archives. Good Job. Simon C
I have some used kubota V3800 engines , same as Cat V3.8 , if anybody needs some parts , the later engine has DEF , and early engine does not , the pumps are different , later engine pump PN is 1J508-50500
Yes, but with #1 and #4 pistons rising and falling together then if you have the TDC mark on the flywheel lined up but the timing mark on the FIP is not in alignment and #4 is at TDC then rotate the engine 360 deg then magically #1 will be at TDC. I'd love to have the valve cover off to see to which cylinder compression stroke the FIP timing mark actually corresponds.
They could have timing of injection set at number 4. It is possible, as they can do whatever the manufacturer wants. As you said, if it was set at number 4 then the valves would be rocking on number 1. I guess the point is to put the timing exactly as the manufacturer says at whatever cylinder they specify with both valves loose on that cylinder and the travelling companion cylinder at TDC also but with valves in overlap. If the cylinder is in the correct location with the flywheel pinned, then the marks have to align at the gear train end or there is a problem Houston. And all of this better be sorted out before the pump comes off cause if it wasn't, then its going to be a big timing job to do as you stated above. Simon C
Hey guys, finally got all of my gears, gaskets O-rings and all of the other parts I need and went to order the new pump from a reputable heavy equipment website that sells reman stuff for 1,300 and it’s sold out. I’m seeing Some on eBay and Amazon for about 900 from a different manufacturer. Has anyone had any experience with getting a pump from any of those two from a manufacture other than nismo
Last one we purchased off eBay for $900 ended up not working at all. Come to find out, some of the Chinese Kubota pumps spin in the opposite direction. Once installed, we were unable to get the pump to push any fuel to the rail even though it looked identical and had the correct P/N on the pump. Ended up buying a Cat pump, followed same install procedure and everything worked great.
I have a take off pump that I replaced the regulator spring on it. It had 2400 hours. It needs one cap screw in the regulator but you should have 4 of those. If you are game I will sell it. DM me.