I have a case 580c with a 207 D engine. I'm removing the injector pump to get it rebuilt and need to know the proper procedures for removal and reinstallation can anyone help me.
Shut off the fuel.. remove the side cover/window plate, let fuel drain. rotate the engine BY HAND and line up the 2 lines.. 1 is stationary and 1 rotates.. keep rotating the engine until they line up. remove the inlet, outlet lines, the throttle and shut-off linkages from their levers. Remove the 4 banjo bolts connecting the inj. lines to the pump and position the lines out of your way. this is accomplished by loosening the lines AT THE INJECTORS.. Be careful not to get them mixed up if you decide to remove them entirely.. each one is bent differently from the other and you'll have 1 heck of a puzzle if that happens. I just loosen them so they have enough swing to get out of the way.. Lines and linkage out of the way>> only thing left to do is remove the nuts/bolts holding the pump to the block.. Once they are removed, pull the pump back.. the driveshaft will stay in the engine.. Don't forget to put the side cover back on.. I just did 1 this morning.. removed, rebuilt and reinstalled.. started at 9 and home by 1:30.
Good job pumpguy!
Thanks BRO.. I can remove 1 in 30 minutes or less.. Hardest part of the whole job was pressing out the brass pilot tube where the drive shaft seals are.. DEFINATLEY need MAP GAS for that.. I stopped and got a plumbers torch kit/propane and used almost the full bottle..!! Thought I was gonna have to go get some MAP... got lucky tho..
Fuel pump removel Raise the loader up and install the lockout safety strut,shut the fuel off at tank, remove the filters and mounting base, remove the muffler and nuts holding the exhaust manifold, use two wrenches and take loose the injection pump lines at the injectors (note that the nuts on the injector lines turn and the injector side do not turn), remove the manifold, do not remove the injector lines at the pump if your sending it in to be serviced, scribe a line on the pump housing flange at the front cover if not already done (some will all ready have line/grove cut in), remove the throttle linkage and shut off cable/ or wire to the shut off if its been converted to elect shut off. Engine timing is at 8* BTDC for reff, remove the two slot screws along with the window plate and gasket, rotate the fan until the marks line up inside, reinstall window plate, tie the throttle shaft back with a tie strap or wire, unhook the small return line, remove the three nuts and washer holding the pump to housing, slide the pump off the shaft. Once off the shaft take time to look at the end of shaft for a dot, then look in the end of the pump at the coupling and find the other dot as these must engage during the reinstall. Next look at the shaft to see the two butterfly seals, one goes to the engine and the other to the pump, They make a tool to stretch them for a safer install, but can be installed being very careful. i would have them add a extra 1 or 2 in case you nick or damage them during install. You may need to drain and clean your fuel tank to start fresh. The pump guy may also chime in with servicing, Will share more info when you get ready to go back.
207d injector pump removal and installation Thanks, I thought the gear in the Timing gears would have to come out too. That is a relief. I will turn the engine till I get the two lines on the pump aligned. Then send the pump to get professionally rebuilt. When it comes back all I have to do is realign the marks on the pump and insert being careful to mind the butterfly o rings. I have some freeze spray, and wondering if I froze the o ring would that help insure it to not fold up during installation. Seems like it would shrink a little and get hard so to not get folded back. Good or bad idea?
Just to add something to the advice given above, take your cell phone and snap a pic of how things are oriented before disassembly. You'd be surprised at how that can help when you go to put it back together and find this one component that has you puzzled.
pumpguy, correct me if I'm wrong as you and I have had this discussion before regarding knocking the shaft out of the gear, but wouldn't an inexperienced wrench be better off knocking the shaft out and leaving it in the pump for repair than worrying about rolling the umbrella seals AND the possibility of getting the dots inside lined up? As it is keyed and can be removed from any point of rotation without retiming issue (just mark static timing to mounting plate), there seems to me less chance for problems with shaft removal.
I have never used freeze before so i would leave that suggestion to the pump guy.
I am doing a major on my 580CK and already finished the 188D rebuild. If you want to pull the shaft with the pump, you will probably need to pull the radiator and the front timing cover to get at the gear. For all that work, I would just leave the shaft in place and replace the seals. If you are careful, you should be able to replace the pump without damaging the seals. As mine as a complete teardown, I sent the shaft along with the pump to the shop for rebuild. You might want to PM thepumpguysc and ask him about rebuilding your pump. I would have but the distance and crossing borders didn't look promising, so I had the local shop do it up for me. A complete rebuild and pop test of injectors was over $900 CDN, so a bit less in US$ these days. My 188 is almost exactly the same as your 207 except for minor design changes and more displacement.
Juskatla; most of what I deal with has an access cover over the front of the injection pump shaft. If those engines don't and I haven't worked on them enough to know, then leaving shaft in the engine is definitely an easier fix!
I can't say that I know much about a 580c but the 207 is almost the same engine as the 188. There is a cover that will get you into the gear but the rad probably has to come out first if its anything like mine. Unless you need to do more than the injection pump, I'd leave well enough alone. The seals are the only real issue with pulling just the pump and if you are careful, you can put the pump back without any issues. Somewhere on here there is a procedure on how to do this without damaging the seals. Here are couple of pictures showing the front of my 188D before the rebuild. The pump drive gear is on the right. In the picture with the cover on, you can see the water passage from the pump to the lower rad hose attachment. If yours is the same, then you would need to pull the rad to get at the cover. The other two are the pump before in orange and then back from the shop in silver.
The pump shaft and nut is harder to get to, than just putting on new seals and wiggling the pump on.. for me anyway.. BUT, I see were your commin from.. USE lube instead of FREEZE..
I haven't read all the words of the posts at this thread so forgive me if I repeat what's already been said, but if you pull a Roosa Master / Standadyne pump like this by pulling the pump and leaving the shaft fitted to the drive gear to have it rebuilt, when you get it back from the pump shop it should have the throttle control lever tied back in the full throttle position. Don't cut that tie wire until you get the pump installed. The throttle lever pulled back and tied off is keeping the governor weights in proper position with the shaft removed.
And depending how they give you the butterfly seals, do not try to pull them off the little wire tied to the pump. Always untwist or cut the wire and remove the seals if it's sent back to you that way, check your inner lip for nicks and cuts.
pump removal I have case 580c with roosa master. Just wondering how to get the 3 bolts off. 2 are easy to get to...one is between the pump and engine and I cant see how to get to this last bolt..any help much appreciated Regards Terry
pump removal I have case 580c with roosa master...3 bolts hold body on...2 are easily accessable ...3rd bolt is between the pump body and the motor (207d)...cant find a tool to get into this small space and undo the bolt...any help with this appreciated Regards Terry
You have to buy or make a U shaped wrench & use the box end.. an offset open end wrench will sometimes work..
injector pump Thanks ...I can make that Regards Terry
OK got the pump off with modified wrench...opened cover on top...full of gunk water and old fuel...just got to it before any major rust although it is difficult to turn the pump by hand...removed everything but cant get inner pump body out of pump casing...it seems to be held by the automatic advance mechanism...any help greatly appreciated Regards Terry
The cam ball screw in the advance has to be removed before the head will come out of the housing. This is normally done w/ a special Bristol wrench but a T45 will work in a pinch.
auto advance Thanks for the quick reply...I will try and add a photo so you can see the problem I have with this. There does not seem to be the ball screw you are talking about ..instead just a splined shaft with a ball on the end ..a 5 mm allan key fits in the shafts spline ...no screw anywhere to be seen. The photo is looking straight down the shaft ...you can see the splines and the ball.
Yes that's it.. it actually takes a special tool but they cant be found anymore.. A T45 torx bit works just fine.. Screw the pistons back in hand tight to keep the screw centered and give the T45 a good hard hit w/ the palm of your hand, like your trying to break someones nose.. You only get 1 try at it.. it'll break and then your screwed..
OK will try that...its been 40 degrees (104 Fahrenheit) here lately and about 50 in the shed so I might wait a bit..I'll try and get the bristol tool...I read abit about them and it probably is better to use the correct tool...the advance lever (the thing i'm trying to remove) was stuck in one place at first..took a bit of wiggling and wd40 to get it to move. I did try turning the screw with an allan key but it didnt feel like it was going anywhere...i'll try the palm of the hand approach.
auto advance lever OK got the round headed lever screw out . ended up using the allan key with extension bar and a quick strong turn..photo shows picture of the lever and allan key
Next problem some pitting of head ..dont think this will be a problem so will use it as is...any comments greatly appreciated
next problem ..is a washer used in govenor plates shown ...if so does it go under, over or in between the plates
The piece that missing. the washer, lol.. is called a flex ring.. it comes in the kit.. clear plastic piece.. Why the hell did you start this project w/o a book.??? it would be like taking the transmission out of your car, hammering it apart and saying, what do I do now..??? You can get the flex ring on w/ a pair of snap ring pliers.. put the tips in the hole and spread the ring over the rivets. The pitting is ok.. but you better take care of that water in the fuel problem you have..
1 more thing.. The piece w/ the tangs in the center has a timing line on it, in the center on the other side. That line HAS TO line up w/ the slash mark on the rotor before you put the clip back on.. otherwise it will never time up right on the engine & it wont start.
govenor Thanks for that,,,the flex ring was missing except for a few little bits around the rivets...the rest of the ring I think is all the black gunk that i've been cleaning out of the pump as I take out each bit..I do have a new clear plastic one in the kit that I bought..its diameter is a bit smaller than the ring so im assuming it must stretch a bit ..I can see the timing mark I think ..it looks like " IL " its pitted and more black gunk I'll post a photo. I do have a manual but it is hard to see the individual parts thats why I posted the auto advance lever screw for anyone else who is doing the same repair job. I'm guess I'm one of these people that fixes anything and everything.
kinda glad I sent my pump to you PGSC i might be a decent mechanic but this looks like a easy thing to screw up lol Best of luck to the OP
Tez I am the same way. If I don't know how something works or how to fix it I eventually find out somehow. Sometimes it might end up taking longer or even costing more money if you make a mistake but its a learning experience and worth it in the end. This forum is a great place for info on these older machines. Thanks to all the more experienced members willing to share there knowledge
Tez, The last pic is the correct placement. it goes on as an assembly.. you put the flex ring on the 2 parts and then put the assembly on the head and clip it. The cam ring is VERY important also.. it has an arrow on it.. once you put it on the head, the arrow for your application, should be pointing in the Counter Clockwise direction. to the LEFT. If you snap a pic of the disassembled parts, I can tell you whats what.. Theres ALOT of steps in the OEM shop manual that SHOULDNT BE DONE by an individual at home w/o the proper tooling to get it set back correctly.. SO... if you followed the book on disassembly.. you better snap a pic or 4 of your progress at this point.. and let me see..
GIO.. your right about that.. yours was a gonner.. lol I don't begrudge ANYONE for trying to fix anything..BUT, when it comes to injection pumps, things get scary and expensive REAL FAST.. MAINLY because there isn't any GOOD information available.. The info is on lockdown from the manufacturers.. and the dealers have to pay 100's of thousands of dollars for the tooling & access to the information..and sign dealer agreements every couple of years & the info is priority, to dealers ONLY.. and if a dealer gets caught distributing the info to the general public, they pull his deal agreement.. no more tooling, no more access to information.. no more discounts on parts.. Are they supposed to just give it away?? And that my friends, is why there is little to no information available.. the almighty DOLLAR.. and that's why I DO what I do..
tell you what it runs pretty dam good now thanks to you my oil level wont come back up LOl
OK anyone know the roller to roller dimension for case580c with 207d motor...been looking everywhere on line with no luck..188d is 1.953 inch so I'm guessing a tad more than that.
1.965" quit guessing.
Thanks pumpguy...will add some photos...may help someone doing the same job...govenor weight layout, cam ring rotation, roller to roller in mm, govenor assembly alignment, flex ring in place
Waiting to get a new snap ring to hold the govenor in position (mine is 39 years old)...(no snap ring in the seal kit I bought which I thought was a bit odd)..so I assembled the pump end while I'm waiting.
Are you talking about the snap ring that holds the weight retainer on the rotor?? Unless you bent the **** out of it, reuse it.. If your talking about the small clip for the throttle, just give it a good rap w/ a hammer to close it up a smidge. What about the brass pilot tube in the front of the pump hsg?? Can you feel any grooves?? Can you catch a fingernail in them?? if so, you better replace it..
Did you take the pressure regulator out of the end plate?? Don't take it apart.. The old style had a rubber plug in the bottom of them to keep the guts intact.. and the rubber plug blows out w/ age.. and will greatly affect the performance.. The newer ones have a steel plug in the bottom.. the kit should have come w/ a steel plug depending on the age of the kit.. The steel plug is supposed to be set at a certain depth w/ a special tool but can be knocked in flush.. Just take a straight scribe and poke it in the bottom of the regulator and make sure the piston moves freely..
Look inside the transfer pump liner.. any scratches? replace liner & blades.. are the blades standard or oversize?? does it need oversized blades?? How about taking a pic of the metering valve, along the helix edge.. Can you see any color difference from the run portion to the shut-off portion? Replace. You have to order a new shim when ordering a new mv because they changed the size and the old shim wont fit.. These overhauls are not.. just throw in a gasket kit!!!!! theres a helluva lot more to it than a 30.00 kit.. If using OEM parts, theres well over 100.00 in parts alone.. Then theres the question that its gonna work when you get done and not blow your engine up..
Snap ring that holds weight retainer...could not get one so ended up using the old one...pilot tube reasonably ok ..no major grooves passes the fingernail test ok..
Had to remove pressure regulator...everything has black sludgey gunk water and old diesel on it and some surfaces show slight pitting. The rubber stop at the bottom is fine..looks like it may have been replaced at some time..it feels well intact and tight fit in tube
Tranfer pump has slight pitting..polished these up hopefully to acceptable level... i'm working on the premise that the pump pumps way more fuel than needed so a little bit of loss here should not be a problem...metering valve helix edge looked fine and was still a perfect fit in the slot even though pitting was evidenced around top of hole shown in earlier photo. I would like to replace the parts you mentioned but havn't been able to source them yet. I dont mind rebuilding the pump if I get the new parts..thanks again for all your help. Regards Terry
Terry, there has to be diesel injection pump rebuild shops in your country.. You have all the part #'s of the parts you'll need.. just order from the closest shop.. give them a call if they don't have a website. Some of those p# will change to the latest #, but the fuel shop will have the cross in their system.. maybe that's why your having problems locating a part on line.. It looks like your well on your way to a running engine.. 1 thing to remember when putting it back on is, the dot to dot, on the end of the dr. shaft.. let us know when she's running..
Had a bit of a break during the hot days now its raining everyday. Bench tested the pump...seemed to bind a bit but I installed it anyway. Could not get it to pump fuel to injectors. Removed pump and took it apart again...broke cam ring govenor bolt trying to remove it. Made another one from a nut and bolt with same thread. Found a sliver of metal floating around near the govenor and found a "o" ring that was damaged on reassembly. Re ground the cam ring with dremel to remove more pitting and polished up and reground outer rollers and polished up. Bench tested pump and getting fuel up to outlet pipes, no binding and no leaks. Installed pump...bled system to top of pipes immediately before injectors...all ok..attached injector pipes and started first crank in about 5 seconds. Injectors seemed fine I thought they would have been blocked from all the rubbish in the pump. Thanks to all who made an input to especially pumpguy for the more technical aspects.