I am looking to purchase a 50 acre farm that has pine trees on it. it had strips cut through it 6-7 years ago. most of the pines are 10-12 inches wide and pretty thin with a good bit of dead pines. The stumps are rotten on the cleared sections. After the cut the remaining 25 acres (contract states 12 months to do it), what is the easiest way to remove the pine stumps so it can be farmed/tilled? Will a dozer be more efficient than my excavator (cat 315)? Soil is not sandy or very high in clay. Thanks for the advice.
Welcome to the forum Timaladd,,, give us a little more info ie, what are you going to do with the stumps,,, burn, bury, haul away,, ??
Dig a hole, burn with tops of the trees, cover up.
Well,,, your excavator will grub them,,, and dig a hole better than a dozer,,,, I would use a dozer to grub the stumps out and excavator to dig the holes,,, and the dozer would fill and level the holes out better,,,, so there you have it in a nutshell,,,,, no proper answer to your question,,,,, lol,,, Gramps..
Just curious, are you aware you may need up to 4 to 5 tons of lime per acre to turn that land into good soil? I've got a bunch of pines and nothing will grow near them. I did some research on what was needed for the soil to be ph balanced and lime seems to be the ticket. Also, how you mulch or grind the leftover pine remnants into the soil will have a bearing on how long it takes to get your soil to consistantly produce.
unfortunately i am aware of the acidity. Was going to burn the pine straw off before the cleanup. I was planning on growing wheat and milo the first few years. Guessin 5 years before the ground id decent. I have a pioneer seed rep checking with some folks in GA to see what is common. What size dozer would do thwe job? is a 6 big enough?
If you have ten to twelve inch pines at breast high, that is going to be rough on even a D6. Even ten to twelve inches at the stump will be tough, but try the dozer on them, you might get lucky and they will pop right out. Dig them out with the hoe and pile with the dozer and the hoe and burn. Do it in a month the ground is fairly moist for easier digging. Pine trees have a very long tap root and will break off and otherwise work the snot out of a dozer when it's too dry. Good luck.
Just got thru doing 300 acres in 3 sections "tried the digging and raking to slow to much fuel and to much labor" let them rot for 3 years or longer if you can then 30" or 36" rome bog disk 10' and 12' wide and d8 size dozer or big tractor "we used two 2670 case tractors and added counterweights to front and back so they wouldnt hop sometimes" hit the stumps and they either fly apart or they get kicked out allso if you have bushog set it high and go over area first to cut the little brush first and the disk will take ground better the first time and save having to go over it and extra time we usually did it 3 times then 25'disk with drag then 25' drag harrow then sow then 25' culdepacker. letting it set saves alot of money if you can wait
I use a D39 Komatsu and really have never had a big problem with a 10 to 12" pine. A hackberry , oak or walnut is another thing. For the money I'd look around for a 953 for this. The other thing about pushing them over with the excavator is they tend to pop and explode into pieces making cleaning up a mess. You may take the excavator and dig up the root ball , let them set for a couple weeks and dry out the dirt on the stump , take the 953 pick it up and pack it to burn hole , shake off dirt and burn it.
a d39 on 25 acres of stumps, will it do it, yes. How many thousand hours do you want to commit to the project? If they were my trees i'd take my 315 and knock the first 25 feet over and clean them up. Then let the wind continue to topple them, or if I was in a bigger hurry knock them over a row at a time with the hoe. Standing trees are 3x easier to push over than a cut stump is to get out. What are you selling the pines for? If they are chipping them as long as your fairly easy on them it will not matter if you tip them with the hoe. Do what you want but if it was me id be tipping standing trees with a laborer cutting stumps off or have a feller buncher with a processor head clipping the stump off and limbing.
Maybe your pine's down there grow in different soil type's then what our pines do up here. I was under the impression pines like sandier types of soil . Here in the sand a D6 is plenty of machine to get them out. Of course bigger is better if your looking at production, but a D6 will do ya just fine.,
I'm kind of partial to hours thats how I make $. But maybe I could by a D375 have it put together onsite buy a few thousand in fuel , do the job in a couple of weeks and go bankrupt paying the fuel and equipment lease, but I would look big for only a while.
Am I missing some hidden problem here? Pine trees, 10'' - 12"? My little 70 hp Fiat dozer, with a tree pusher, would bowl them over. Those that were stumps it'd hook out with the corner of the blade The occasional well anchored stump might need some ripper attention but on the whole I'd be expecting to be cleaning up and making piles with the blade and pusher. I've tackled similar jobs but here we have little bonus problems such as occasional stumps 3' or 4' across. Blasts from the past. They're the ones that stop you dead as you're peaceably pushing along a pile of smaller stuff! The dozer/excavator argument is trickier. A good operator on an excavator, with a log grab, can motor along, plucking stumps out and piling them, nice and soil free. All ready for good hot burns. With the dozer, it'd depend on hp. With a little machine, such as mine, I'd have to extract, push to the side, then extract the next. Then go back and pile. Excavator would leave me for dead. Given a more grunt, the dozer could just keep going and that'd be much quicker than the excavator but the heaps would have more soil. I reckon I'd use what's available!
Yair . . . nutwood I have stayed out of this one . . . and all the land clearing threads for that matter. It is interesting how different regions have different ways of doing the same job. To me twenty five acres of ten to fifteen inch pine stumps is no big deal. Idealy a 250 hp tractor with a twenty four foot rake and a cutter-bar and it would be all over in a week, the biggest problem would probably being the stumps getting stuck between the teeth. I know folks in the 'States have trouble getting permits to burn and it seems the timber doesn't burn like here . . . they some-times need engine driven fans to burn piles. I must say that a few American videos I have seen of burning piles the operators were timid and didn't give much of a stir . . you have to get in there and work them hot and hard and push those burning heaps together. Cheers.
Thanks Scrub Puller. I've been a bit absent from this forum for a few months. Side effect of daylight saving! I read this one several times before commenting. I'm by no means a professional operator but I learned to drive machines in the WA wheatbelt many years ago. Bulk land clearing. Usual technique; two D9's and a **** big chain between them. Smaller machines (this is where I come in!) scuttle along after and clean up the details. 25 acres was the difference between whether we stop for smoko now or....now! That said, 25 acres of stumps can be a real headache. Imagine if you only had a crowbar to clean them up with! Mind you, it's been done with a crow bar so I'll go back to my original conclusion. Use what you've got! PS You're so right about those burning piles. If the tracks aren't on fire as you back out, you haven't pushed hard enough! We used to haunt those piles. Every four hours, back you go and push them in. PIA but still good fun at 2am!
The OP made it clear (no pun intended) the job would be stumps, no standing timber, which is a different ball game. Secondly, will the stumps be 10-12 inches diameter at breast high or 10-12 inches near the ground where they will be cut off? Big difference here in methodology. That's methodology, not methamphetamine. The soil is much more pliable in Tennessee than in the Deep South. Consequently a good stump will probably root out much easier in TN. I don't believe the nines and ship's anchor chain will be needed here. That's just not really duck nuts where the job will be stumps only.
Stumpjumper hit the nail on the head. When clearing trees with my ex120, I would reach up far as I could and use the weight of the tree to help fall it. If my little machine wasn't able, I would take break up the root system a little bit, and they would come right down. I wouldn't cut the trees off then go about removing the stumps. It'll be much harder imop. Here is a video of me pushing some poplar trees over. First scene is a little dark, but it gets better. CJ http://youtu.be/w47L4-liL-k
Yair . . . You are right Bluetop Man. It is very hard to be objective when you don't know the total story. It's just when I hear "twelve inch pine stump" I don't see a problem. If they are cut off low enough to straddle a 250 hp tractor with a cutter-bar will take them out in second gear. If they are cut off waist heigh you can flip them out with corner of the rake. I'm not an excavator hand but a tine in place of the bucket seems to be pretty good on stumps.You still have to pile them and burn the stacks so you still need a dozer. . . lots of variables. Cheers.
Ok - so here's an idea - little bit left field though. You may not need any diesel though (not for an internal combustion engine anyway) - so if you are addicted to the sound of a Diesel engine this may not be for you, but if you like fire it could still work for you. What I have success with (after an old timer told me about it),is to get old 44 gal drums & cut out both ends & sit them over the stumps (I prop them off the ground a little with 3 small rocks or something to let air get under & up) - put in a bit of rubbish (pine needles & such) - those things can burn like a torch and if they burn good can burn down 3 foot into the ground. But, I suppose this is heavy equipment forum and not " what to do to those stumps with a bunch of drums you have lying around forum" Just an idea Jimbob :Cowboy
Bluetop Man you are correct. 6 in high stumps. The trees will be gone when I get my hands on the land. No sand it this soil. But not heavy clay either. Thanks for the opinions. I am trying to keep from spending $500 per acre of stumps. I want to start out the right way. How much hours per acre using a 315 track hoe digging the stumps? Anyone else have any experience with the acidity issue? Thanks again.
Scrub Puller and Nutwood, Qld gov't have just released a tender for pulling 5000acres of 10 to 15 year old regrowth plus 2000acres have to be raked. It is up near Charters Towers. Chain must be 2" and the rakes must have cutter bars fitted so there must be a lot of smaller stuff. If i wasn't fully occuppied I'd have a go at tendering on this as it should be a job that you can make a shilling out of. Wouldn't need too big of machines on this. I must be missing something but it seems some of the replies here are from guys that probably have not cleared a lot of broad acre country as everything seems to be a big deal and it seems they are making mountains out of mole hils. Firetrack
Thanks firetrack! I've never been crazy enough to go contracting. The nearest I've got is being dragged off to build emergency firebreaks. Emergency because everything to the left is on fire and we really don't want that stuff on the right to join it! My external observations of contracting is that you make a zillion dollars, then something breaks and you end up borrowing $50 from your off-sider so you can buy a carton on the way home.
LOL! That's a pretty damn fair assessment!:drinkup
Yair . . . firetrack Dunno mate. I reckon it might be a bit hard to make a bob out of that one. I imagine it would be pretty cut throat . . . every b*****d with a half clapped out seven or bigger will be bidding...with his mate next door who has an HD16 Being told I had to have cutter bars on my rake would put me off. I don't know if you have used them but they can be a pain in the azz. Guberment jobs can be a pain too. They will probably want it raked into east/west windrows (they reckon it gives a better burn due to prevailing winds). I always rake into piles either go around and around like ploughing or work back and forth across a face. I find it interesting on this forum (and others) to see how different countrys have different methods of doing similar jobs. As regards the comments here I guess you and I and nutwood look at things from a different perspective. As I say up thread it is hard to be objective without seeing the country but as you say, when it comes to clearing I think our American friends tend to make mountains out of molehills. I had a look at one of these the other day http://www.multifarmingsystems.com.au/rake.php just an evolution of the old Pedricks but it was working well even if it was a bit wet. They were running it over 20,000 acres of raked and once ploughed suckers they were working up for wheat. Good to see you around again. Cheers.
Around here if the timber is being haulded off we grind the stumps. We don't deal with much pine around here but we have a lot of cherry and oak trees. Thier stumps don't burn for crap unless you got a bunch of tops to keep the fire going. You might want to get a price to have a local land clearing company give you a price to just grind out the stumps then use a disc behind a 100hp tractor to till it under. Might have to let it rot for one season but after that you should have some good farmland/
David Trevillyan from Banana Farming Co(that the name before it was called multi farming systems) certainly has buit some inovative machines in his career. Not many of them break either. The Gov't job is on an hourly basis plus mobilisation costs etc and at this stage they haven't given any preference as to the stacks being in a line or piles. If I go for this and are successful it will be at my price or I don't do it. Not sure how many will have 2" chains as a lot of contractors have gone for lighter hi tensile chains now.I agree that it will probably go to a couple of neighbours with old D8H/k or D7E. I usually rake in a straight line, back up a bit and go around the pile and keep going. Once your at the other side turn around and rake back to your piles. Then just push the piles end on as much as you can to make individual stacks. Yep, I've got cutter bars on my rake and they can be a pain to use plus tend to carry too much dirt if your not careful. Work well in the right country but no good if your in soft or damp stuff.
Yair . . . The heavier chain the better of course when chasing suckers. We mainly used new Faulkiner two inch scrub chain made in Brissy. Never had a lot of luck with so called "anchor chain". . . can't take much to hold a fricken boat. We had a good run with the square cross section two inch Esco "dragline" chain as they called it. Cost an arm and a leg up front but it wore well and it was nice to have a hundred feet of good stuff behind the tractors with no shackles to pick up on a grouser. For suckers even with two inch we would sometimes shackle on a second loop of worn out stuff just to add a bit of weight . . . it could be a right royal pain if there was a bit of big stuff still laying around but. Interesting the way they are building the rakes these days. . . laying them right back. Makes sense I suppose, it would tend to get some of the crap off the ground. I can see with those layed back rakes though you could get a bit of stuff hanging up if you were stacking high Cheers
Different application. Boats work best against weight. If the chain ever pulls up tight, someone hasn't let enough out!
Yair . . . Gotcha nutwood it was surprising how easy some of that real good looking chain would break . . . you could see the sparks when it let go at night. We used to carry an oxy set on one of the tractors for repairs Cheers.
As for Qld Government Quoting have a look at the tender process,some only accept tenders from Pre-Approved tenderers,then look at the probably 2-10 page requiremets for consideration. All quotes will require a work method statement, machinery statement,compliance statement for all of the above and a current S.W.I.M.S. (complicated safe work method statement and then some, reading that its 5000 acres or hectares that SWIMS you have to supply may be 20-30 pages long. that all takes time to comply with the tender proccess and the probably have already figurede out whos going to do the job anway there just complyig to take it to teder to cover their ass.
Excavator .If you need to ask you better research your plan .
I would say excavator as well. I have done a good bit with my d31 dozer but an excavator with a thumb is what I'd want. Also like said if you could let em rot a while it would be easy. As far as the rotten ones a dozer with a rake would be a better choice IMHO. What part of tennesse are you in?
Garrie, Yep the paper war can be daunting for the first time but once you know what they want it is just a process of cut and paste. I'm a pre approved supplier with SOA with Qld Gov't. I'm currently tendering on 55ha of raking of leucaena rows (take out every second one). then have to cutter bar the raked out row. This is on a per ha basis so you have to leave enough fat in the price for unforeseeable conditions. Better to lose the job and make no money than to win and loose a bucket load. Firetrack