I'm stumped. I have a 2014 289D with 3,300 hours on it. It will only very rarely start on its own without starting fluid, and that's after trying for several minutes. More often than not she just won't start without a squirt of ether. It will crank until the starter motor 'grinds' and then I have to turn it off and try cranking again. With a little ether she fires right up, and then runs smoothly up to ~90% throttle. If I go 100% throttle I think it cuts out/hesitates and makes the park brake come on. If I maintain around 90% throttle it will run all day with no problems. After running for an hour and turning it off, if you immediately try to restart it, it won't start again. I've changed both fuel filters and confirmed that the lift pump is maintaining fuel levels. Battery has been charged. Any thoughts? Thanks!
Welcome to the Forums S36! Glad to have you. First and foremost post a serial # in order for the wrenches to know which exact configuration you have. Also moved this over to the CTL forum.
Thank you! Serial number is 289DETAW00802
I'd start with a compression check.
When you run 100% throttle and makes the park brake come on, what is the code? I'm suspecting a high pressure fuel issue. . .
Unfortunately I'm not getting a code when it does that...I figure if it was throwing a code that would at least give me a place to start.
Do you have smoke coming out of yhe exhaust thru all rpms? If so, what color and is it puffing or pretty even. Injectors that aren't atomizing correctly will cause these kinds of hard starting and rough running issues.
No noticeable smoke at any rpm.
Can you post a photo of the RH instrument panel. I may be able to find a procedure that enables you to look at historical Codes. Digressing - does the water separator have a clear bowl on the bottom and is it always completely full of fuel.? Have you ever tried opening the drain on the bottom of the fuel tank to look for water/sediment.?
Here are the pics, I think I found the historical Codes but if there's another menu I'm missing please let me know: Side note, this always pops up when I initially turn the machine on...no idea what it means but it clears with any press of a button: Here are the Logged Events: Here are the Logged Diagnostic Events (few more pics to follow in next post): On the water separator - it is clear and completely full. I have opened and drained some fuel out of it and nothing appeared amiss.
Logged Diagnostic Events continued: Lots of logged events, but no active events.
Even easier. You have the Advanced Display and it's all there at your fingertips. Here is a rundown of the Logged Events & Codes. E361-3 - Very High Coolant Temp. Activates at 230F. E459-2 - Engine Power Rating mismatch. Check/clean the ground cables between the engine and the chassis. E570-2/E571-2 - Unexpected RH track motor speed detected.[1] E875-1 - Low system voltage with engine stopped & key on. Nothing to be concerned about. E878-3 - Very high hydraulic oil temperature. Activates at 205F. The combination of E361-3 & E878-3 indicates that this engine has been extremely hot at some time, maybe more than once. It would need ET hooked up to determine exactly how many of each of the listed events had actually taken place. 102-4 - Intake Manifold Pressure Sensor - Voltage Below Normal. 132-15 - Engine Inlet Air Mass Flow Rate Sensor: High - least severe (1) 168-3 - Battery Potential/Power Input 1 : Voltage Above Normal 190-0 - Engine Speed : High - Most Severe (3) 523602-0 - High regen frequency. Diesel Particulate Filter Active Regeneration Excessive. 523603-15 - Engine Coolant Temperature : High - least severe (1) All the above are on the engine, those below are on the machine. 2685-2/2686-2 - LH drive motor speeds sensors #1 & #2 incorrect signal. 2687-2/2688-2 - RH drive motor speeds sensors #1 & #2 incorrect signal. 2687-8/2688-8 - RH drive motor speeds sensors #1 & #2 signal abnormal frequency, pulse width or period. [1] - the E570/E571 Events are as a direct consequence of the 2687-8/2688-8 Diagnostic Codes. From the three lines that are highlighted this engine has been very hot and also subjected to overspeed, who knows how many times.
Just to tick the boxes please can you do the following. They are simple and it avoids tail-chasing later down the diagnostic trail. This product line suffers more than most from having contaminated fuel dumped into the tank and symptoms don't show immediately. 1. Drain a small quantity of fuel from the tank to check for the presence of water & sediment. See attachment. 2. Replace the suction screen in the fuel transfer pump (#6 in illustration below). Part Number 416-5884. 3. Remove the fuel filter assembly #3 from the machine and disassemble to remove the head from it. Remove all the fittings from the head and either poke through every passage with a piece of wire or blow them out with compressed air. Do the same with all the fittings/elbows, then reassemble. 4. When you turn the key the the ON position does the fuel transfer pump #6 run.?
Thank you for all of this advice. My apologies for the delay in responding, life has a way of getting in the way. 1) No water or sediment detected 2) Replaced, no improvement 3) I found one fitting (goes to the #5 fuel line in the diagram) that had a small orifice completely blocked and rusty. Couldn’t even see the hole at first, but got it cleaned up and made sure the orifice was no longer blocked; no improvement 4) Yes New development: I was able to get it running after all of the above by removing the air filter and giving it a small squirt of ether. I ran it around the farm and it was running great until turning it up to full throttle, then it started cutting out. I left it on full throttle and hopped out to look at the fuel filter, and I saw that it was not staying full of fuel, in fact had very little in it but it was pumping into the larger glass filter (#3 in your diagram) , just could not keep up with consumption. Would this indicate a bad fuel transfer pump? Should it be staying full at full throttle? Thanks!
The transfer pumps are a known problem I kept one on the shelf. They are overpriced from cat and identical ones are available on Ebay. More than likely you have a plugged suction screen on the suction side of the transfer pump. This screen is considered non serviceable also ridiculously priced from cat, but I have not been able to find a direct replacement. I have retrofitting machines with a cleanable suction screen to allow cleaning in the field. I have had some limited success blowing them out so it's worth a try for diagnostic purposes. I have also seen leaks on the suction side of the pump that let air in. Make sure the machine is not out of fuel. You can get the same symptoms by being out of fuel. Fuel sending units also fail hiding the low fuel issue sometimes. I would avoid run the machine if it is starving for fuel. I had one run out of fuel and split a piston at the same time under warranty. Cat and the shady dealer refused to give me any sort of failure analysis after teardown.
There was something posted not long ago (by @Chrisso I think) regarding an update to replace the existing problematic design of transfer pump with a different type of pump entirely. IIRC the replacement was the type of pump that mounts on top of the filter head. See HERE , about half way down the page.
Thanks Nige I was unaware of this retro fit kit as it does not show in any of my parts books. I will have to take a look into it further.
It won't show up in any Parts Manual for machines built prior to the update. Attached the two documents referred to in that link.
#5 is the fuel filter outlet that runs out to the pressure reducing valve (#1) which turns 12psi into 1-2 psi before it enters the injection pump. There should be no small orifice in there. #21A is the air bleed and that has the small orifice. Being an air bleed (check valve) I can't see any reliable way of unblocking it other then replacing it. There's no doubt in my mind the upgraded pump/filter arrangement is more reliable. Water in fuel still kills them just not as often.
In thinking about the original poster issue I have experienced these exact symptoms with a loose fuel injector line loosing pressure and filling the crank case with fuel. Are you making oil? Check the fuel lines were they enter the valve cover. There will be a hex there. See if any are loose. Its a long shot that this is your problem but worth checking.
Sorry, never replied to this before. That transparent bowl should be full all the time. Either you have a flow restriction somewhere or a bad transfer pump. I would suggest diagnosing for a blockage in the pump suction as suggested above. Also you should check that the fuel level gauge is indicating correctly to eliminate the possibility of problems caused by an almost empty fuel tank despite the gauge indicating a much higher level of contents.
Question based on the above comments. Is there any chance that the fuel lines or fittings have somehow been switched, even by a previous owner.? Trust nothing at this stage, double check everything.
Shoe, you've got the right people helping you with your fueling issue. Don't forget to flush your engine coolant/hydraulic cooler fins to address that overheating engine code.
Wanted to follow up on this with the resolution - thank you all for the help, especially Nige. The problem ended up being...... a loose ground on the engine. Located roughly here: After tightening it down, all of my issues are resolved.
Here it was back on Page 1 Post #12. I should have asked again whether or not you had done it. My bad.
That probably explains most of the other codes you were getting. Good ole E459-2 - Engine Power Rating Mismatch What's gold is that you replied and let us know. Thank you!
And EVERY time without fail it appears as though it is a problem on that engine ground cable. A fact some people apparently have great difficulty believing...... 459-2 error code Has anyone else had this issue? Looking for wiring diagrams Replaced coolant temperature sensor Checked all relays, fuses, and grounds. 289D Serial number TAW09201 HeavyEquipmentForums
I had the same problem on one didn't take long to find given the trouble shooting procedure for that code. I only had one code at that time. The term "engine power mismatch" does not logically lend itself to bad engine ground with common sense.
I have no idea what incorrect software and a loose earth cable have in common... must be something!
This may shed some light....... At key-on power-up, the Machine ECM interrogates the Engine ECM for the installed engine power rating via the CAN network communication. If the machine ECM does not receive a response, the E459-2 code will become active. Correct CAN network functionality is dependent on having good ground connections everywhere. This obviously includes the engine block ground cable. So if the engine block ground is loose or contaminated there can be no communication over CAN between the Engine & Machine ECMs. No comms = no answer to the power rating question from the Machine ECM to the Engine ECM. No answer to the power rating question = E459-2 Event generated. Simples..... Maybe instead of "Engine Power Mismatch" the message should read "Engine Power Rating Not Detected"
That would make way too much sense.