2013 CAT0299DLGTC00836 It started giving me the E1239-2 code (DPF #1 Conditions not met for Active regeneration). I parked it, put the parking brake on, made sure hydraulics were locked out and low idle. Left it for 20 minutes and came back. Now I am getting E1239-3. My question is what conditions need to be met for active regeneration?
Thanks for posting the s/n. Are there any diagnostic codes active or logged? You'll find these under "diagnostics" in the display menu. If not, this could be something as simple as a boost pressure or coolant temp sensor reading slightly off. Trouble is you're most likely going to need a laptop with Cat ET to see this. Also look for DEF leaks on and around your DEF tank and lines. FYI the E1239-3 is just an "event" in your case and the -3 simply refers to the "level" (level 3 requiring an immediate machine shutdown if safe to do so). A 1239-1 is a diagnostic code regarding fuel leakage which means nothing to us yet. Confusing I know.
From now on don't do that. It's the easiest way to block up your DPF and cost you $1,000's more than needed.
That's what the CAT service manual says to do. The manual has been wrong before.
I am also getting the 174-3 Engine Fuel Temp 1 voltage above normal
It's the bit you mentioned about low idle for 20 mins that made me shiver slightly... I'd give it 5 mins to bump up the idle and regen next time. Better still bump up the engine speed manually from the get go. With a DPF nearing the full mark, every minute counts... Bingo. As long as that code is active... Remove the plug from the fuel temp sensor and inspect for moisture. Bridge the two pins on the harness side. Key on, don't start. If it changes to a 174-4 voltage below normal, sensor is bad. If not, you have a wiring problem. Sensor has two wires and is located on the high pressure fuel pump.
Those instructions are for active regeneration which my machine is saying conditions are not met to do it. Warning Symbol Machine Action Operator Action None If the parking brake and hydraulic lockout are engaged, the ECM may increase the engine speed No action required. 1 Amber If the parking brake is not engaged and the engine speed is below the green shaded area on the Engine Speed Control Knob, the DPF light will turn on. Increase the engine rpm to the green shaded area on the Engine Speed Control Knob, and the DPF light will turn off. or Bring the machine to a stop. Engage the parking brake and hydraulic lockout. Set the engine speed to low idle. The ECM will automatically increase the engine rpm to the regeneration threshold. The regeneration may take up to 30 minutes. 1 Amber 2 Amber 3 Amber The engine will derate until an active regeneration is completed (1) Bring the machine to a stop. Engage the parking brake and hydraulic lockout. Set the engine speed to low idle The ECM will automatically increase the engine rpm to the regeneration threshold. The regeneration may take up to 30 minutes.
I have the CAT repair manual. The computer is telling me that certain conditions have to be met in order for it to do a regeneration. I'm trying to find in the manual the chart that shows which conditions must be met in order to regen so I can systematically inspect each condition. (I hope the fuel temperature sensor is a condition that needs to be met.
The only thing I can find in the electrical schematic is exhaust temp sensors.
So do I, but it's your best bet so far, as long as that code is active. Either way it's a fault that needs to be fixed. Also apologies, I edited my previous post just as you replied. I do understand what you're saying. I'll check the schematic.
It's there. If you find the plug suspect in any way there is a connector repair kit p/n 391-0247 also available it seems.
The correct schematic for your machine is UENR3966. If that's not what you have let us know.
I tried to get that sensor out. I failed. You need the hands of a five year old to get to it.
That's what I have.
That sounds about right unfortunately. I wonder if that has anything to do with the sensor being labelled "non-serviceable" on the schematic? It is available though, and so is the little plug connector repair kit.
Are you trying to remove the sensor or just the plug?
Just the plug.
If you have UENR3966-04 it's located in Grid E-12 on Page 4.
I can see the fuel temp sensor on my schematic. I can trace it back to the ECM. I just don't know if or how it relates to regeneration. Maybe that is controlled in the ecm and is out of my control.
I don't know for certain but would suspect that it's one of those inputs that will inhibit regen if the sensor is not supplying a valid signal to the ECM. I agree with @Chrisso that you should fix the fuel temp sensor Diagnostic Code before making any more attampts to regen.
That's my plan
I got the clip off and bridged at the harness. Still getting the 174-3 code.
Harness
Ok. Are there any more active codes? If not that would confirm for sure you've unplugged the correct sensor. If you're still getting the same -3 you most likely have a wiring issue. Next step is to turn battery isolator off and remove the plug at the engine ECM that has our two fuel temp sensor wires. There's two 80 pin plugs there. Should be easy to identify as it's the 80 pin plug with the most wires running to it... Leave your little bridging wire in the sensor end. Grab a multimeter and check resistance between pins 23 and 33. Report findings. Wiggle the wiring throughout the engine harness and report if the resistance readings changed. Then, just for the sake of it, remove your jumper wire from the sensor end and plug that end back into the sensor. Check resistance again from from the same pins 23 & 33 at the engine ECM, but this time gently but firmly wiggle the fuel temp sensor plug. You should not see any change to resistance. If you do you'll need to order and install that plug repair kit I mentioned a few posts ago. Let us know how you go.
I did a quick test this morning. I get 5 volts to the harness if the I ground my voltmeter to the battery. If I ground it to the black wire on the the harness I get nothing. Sounds like I have a grounding issue in the harness.
My slots in my ecm for pins 23 and 33 are not yellow and black. They are orange and green.
Not sure about that. The black C249 wire is basically a signal wire to the ECM. The ECM reads the return voltage on this wire and converts that to a temperature reading, so I'm not sure if your quick check is actually checking anything other than the F421 yellow wire. I could be wrong. I'm a fan of testing wiring independently from the ECM which is what the test I mentioned above does. I'd be double checking your wire numbers stamped into the ECM plug and also make sure you're looking at the correct ECM. If still unsure you can always confirm they are the correct wires by doing continuity tests with your multimeter.
My wiring diagram says they go into ECM J2. It has 80 pins--8 across and 10 down. I can see where 1,8 and 80 are stamped. I've done countless continuity tests on this ecm. I don't know what I am missing.
I've got nothing, this is all Kubota. Maybe post a picture of what you're seeing?
You've got the rough location of that ECM in your schematic. That ECM should be located behind a panel that requires removing. The ECM itself should have Kubota printed in it somewhere usually. Are you seeing that at least?
Yes. I know exactly where they are. I had to work on them multiple times. I'll try a picture later.
Here is a picture of J2. The black multimeter prong is in pin 23 (yellow wire, not black). Red prong is in pin 33 (white wire, not yellow). Am I missing something obvious?
Possibly. The ECM shown in your photo is the Machine ECM. You need to be looking at the Engine ECM which is inside the engine compartment. It is #50 on the "Engine Wiring" illustration at the left centre of Page 3 of your electrical schematic.
if your getting the -3 event code i believe the only way to clear it is with et.
I see it now Nige. Thanks. Of all the wiring troubleshooting I have done on this machine I never have had to get into the Engine ECM.
To clear it from a "logged" state yes. In ET you need to uncheck the "select all ECM's" button.
But if you find & fix the problem it will turn the current Active Diagnostic Code to a Logged one which will sit quietly in a corner of the ECM memory not bothering anybody.
I am at the engine ECM. I do not see anything stamped on it to indicate which port is what. My schematic says it is in J2 E-C1. Is that the rear or front port?
I can never remember which is which. I normally just look for wire numbers and colours. The pin numbers might be stamped on the inside, which would require you to remove the connectors to find them. EDIT: As you look at the two connectors on a vertically-mounted ECM like this one, J1 should be on the left, J2 on the right.
I believe I found them. The connector is the most rear one (or the left one when looking at them). On the yellow signal wire on I got good resistance. The black wire has no resistance.
Resistance is bad. But I think I know what you mean. So you had say 0-10 ohms on the signal wire and OL (open loop) on the sensor supply wire? If you found otherwise please post what your multimeter screen told you.
yellow Signal wire was like 0.02 and the Black ground was maybe 24-26.
Ok. So we've confirmed the C249 black wire is bad. My thoughts on repair... I'd be inclined to run some twin core in some conduit and replace both those wires, keeps the job neat. On the sensor end I'd install a 391-0247 connector repair kit. On the ECM end I would use the Kubota ECM plug repair kit (Cat p/n 423-1563, which comes with 5 replacement female terminals and a pin extractor tool) and run those 2 wires straight into the ECM plug. But... how you repair it is up to you. If you decide to cut the wires just after the ECM plug, at least check for some pull-up voltage out of the ECM on the black wire after you cut it (given you have now confirmed the black wire is bad I'm suspecting that wire will have either 5 or 8 volts pull-up, contrary to what I said a few posts ago, and pull-up voltage would make sense given the -3 voltage high code). Once it's all fixed, I'd cycle that battery isolator, fire it up, low idle for 5 minutes, park brake on, implements locked out, straight to high idle. As mentioned previously the idea of leaving the machine at low idle (as stated in the OMM) is a terrible idea. If you're lucky the soot loading in the DPF won't be too high and regen will commence.
Got it wired and the fuel temp code is gone. Still getting the "conditions aren't met for regeneration". This goes back to my original question: is there a list of conditions that have to be met? btw I replaced the dpf filter two years ago and about 300 hours ago.
When this was done was an ash model reset performed using Cat ET? It's a must. Also why was the DPF replaced? Was this done as preventative? Or were you getting codes or events? Also are you still seeing the E1239-3 event active? Any other codes/events active? No. As I said earlier on this could be something as simple as a sensor input to the engine ECM reading slightly off skew. Inputs include fuel pressure, mas air flow (boost), DPF temp sensors, DPF pressure differential sensor, coolant temp, etc, etc, with fuel pressure, DPF press differential and boost pressure sensors being the most common to give you trouble. Fuel temp is just one of those inputs so there's no doubt in my mind you've done the right thing by correcting that active code. A good example is the DPF differential pressure sensor. If it reads just half a psi off skew this effects the soot loading model in the ECM roughly 25%. It's a simple check to do with ET, but it obviously means you need to call someone out. If you do, demand they provide you with a copy of the Product Status Report pdf file and post it up here. I'd need to see DPF #1 Soot Mass readings. With key on engine off, are there any sensor parameters you can see in your display?
Also how many hours are on this machine?
I replaced the DPF myself. I had to . The machine derated to a crawl. CAT had to come out when I was done and hook up their to computer to tell the machine I replaced the DPF. No other relevant active codes. E1239-3 is still active. It has around 3,800 hours on it.
What irrelevant active codes and events do you have? The fact that there's still a level 3 event calling for an immediate machine shutdown almost certainly means there's either another active event or active code that is relevant. Otherwise you have a software/ECM problem. Edit: I take the above comment back. Regen issues are somewhat of an exception to this. I wouldn't run this machine any longer than you have to with the level 3 event active.
How long did you cycle the battery isolator for?
The irrelevant codes are about the bucket sensor--it's been like that forever and doesn't affect anything. I don't know what you mean by battery isolator. Does this machine have one?
It's not standard but a lot of machines get retrofitted with one. If the machine has one it will be in the negative cable between the battery and machine frame ground. If it doesn't have one just disconnect the negative battery cable for 5 minutes or so then reconnect.
Yeah. I just disconnected the negative battery cable.
That'll do. As long as you had it disconnected for 5 to 10 mins after the repair. When fitted the battery isolator sits here... I think you have done everything you can without ET unfortunately.
One last thought, and a bit of a long shot, report back if you find any oil pooling internally in or around this hose...
I got a quote from a company today to do a delete on the DPF. Essentially, they hook up to your machine remotely and reprogram it. Then you have to go in and remove/bypass the dpf filter. They want $3,600 for a 30 minute reprogram job. Seems excessive to me. Looks like I will haul it to CAT and have them do the regeneration.
In case you were not aware deleting the aftertreatment system will result in no dealer being prepared to touch the machine again, unless the customer agrees to have the machine put back to factory specification before the dealer will work on it.
I did not know that. I wonder if there are any companies that can hook up the machine remotely and do the regeneration?
Part of my question was answered. The fuel temperature sensor is one of the variables that influences dpf regeneration. Today I hauled it to the Cat dealer. They hooked up their computer and got it regenerating immediately. They agreed that was the problem. I was in and out in 45 minutes. So, if anyone gets that code for the fuel sensor, fix it.
Thanks for reporting back
Good info to file away for the future.
I wish I would have fixed it when it went to Level One. Maybe it would have regenerated. When it goes to Level 2 your done. Level 3 derates the engine.
Too many people act like you did and hope it will go away if they ignore it. I have news for them - it won’t.
Level 2 you are good if you can fix it quick enough. Level three is service tool required... I shoulda picked up on that one. At least you saved some money fixing the fault yourself.
Most all cats will require the parking brake to be set, no accelerator input, engine coolant temp above 140 degrees, and SCR temp above 600 degrees
The dealer told me I need to take out the whole engine to replace the DPF filter; seems like a lot of work? I have a 299D2 machine. I have also at 272D2 that needs a DPF injector replaced but some people have been able to reach it without taking the engine out.
According to many of the guys on this forum who have done this job it is possible to remove the DPF without removing the engine but it entails almost the same amount of work and is much more "fiddly" because of the limited space available. A lot would depend on the availability of adequate lifting equipment for the weight of the engine. If it is available then pulling the engine is problably the "least-worst" of the two options.
So I buy this used 229d2 machine (3800 hours) from Cat dealer "as is" and 10 hours later I get the DPF E1203-3 error (red) . Tech comes and tells me there is too much soot in the DPF filter and initiating a DPF via the laptop will not burn all the particles and a new filter will be needed...I paid 25k for the machine and this will be expensive to fix. Maybe spend a little more and get a new engine while they do that work?
Why not save all the money and do the work yourself.? Once it has been removed there are plenty of companies around that clean/reman DPF modules. All that you would need after that is to have the soot level reset using ET and go happily on your way.
At a minimum I would do engine harness and the drive coupling between the eng and hydraulic pump while it's out. I would also ask the dealer for the Product Status Report they downloaded from the machine and post it up here. It will tell us how hard the engine has worked and idle time. Idle time kills DPF's (and engines). Also ask for oil sample history if they have it. While it's out you can also compression test. I'd imagine a new engine wouldn't be much cheaper than the price you paid for the machine.
I was going to say a new engine + installation would come in around $25k.
Ok here are the numbers: 25k to replace DPF/DOC and that includes new wiring harnesses. Total shop time is 35 hours. That includes changing the fuel injectors (apparently part of DPF). Wring harness might be ok. 28k to get a new engine but that would only have 1 year warranty on DEF/DPF/DOC SO I paid 25k for the machine (2018, 3800hrs) a month before from the same dealer (trade in) but AS IS. Tracks are half worn and the rest is functional besides a cold start voltage warning. what do you recommend (besides deleting which we can't discuss here)
Correct. What's the warranty on the DPF swap? Seems for $3k more I would have a new engine.
They said one year in both cases... I have a 272D2 too and that had originally 5 years on DPF/DEF and they did replace the DEF heater for free after 4 years. They had a lot of issues with them. As a matter of fact dealer just told me that the 299D2 I just bought had it replaced too (a simpler job than DPF replacement)
I didn't know 272D's had DEF. We have 2 - 279D's that neither one use DEF. It's the reason I run with that size. Big enough for us without the DEF problems. We have dozers and a loader for earthmoving.
yes 272D2s have DEF not the 272D They told me the threshold for DPF is not 50HP or so (was 90hp years ago)
DEF threshold was 75 hp. Not sure if it's still the same.
It is still the same threshold in 2025. 279D - 74 BHP. 272D - 98 BHP There's the reason why one model has DEF and the other one doesn't.
That's a weeks labour! One day to remove engine, one day to swap wiring harness, eng coupling (not mentioned ), DPF and injectors (don't know why, they seldom fail). One day to install. That's me having a go, but not working too hard. What are they doing for the other two days?
I think the regular injectors are used to inject diesel into the exhaust cycle when DPF is running! Probably they want to pair the injectors serial numbers with a new DPF (my kubota tractor required that)
yes I have a 60 and 70hp kubota newer tractor and they have DPF and not DEF. LOTS of kubota parts in a CAT skid steer like 272D2
That's new to me. DPF is just a service item. Changed a few years ago from every 3000 hours to 'as required' because they last a lot longer than that in most conditions. I hope they've done their homework. Need to paint the whole picture. Oil sample history (especially PFc fuel in engine oil) tells us a lot about engine condition. Product status report gives us idle time and load factor. Only reason I would pull the injectors is to borescope the cylinder walls and look for scoring. Last thing you want is to replace the DPF and have it clog up again in a few hundred hours. Just my 2c.
The problem is that that machine was never serviced at Cat dealer so hey don't have a history. Machine does not look beat down at 3800hr in 7 years
If the service history is at all questionable because it was not done by a dealer is there even any certainty that the DPF was replaced as claimed.? Does anything visual suggest that the DPF has ever been removed.?
Sorry they do have a record at the same shop that the DEF heater was replaced (under warranty) So no the DPF is likely original and it seems that 3800 hours would be consistent with the need for a new DPF .... All the technician told me is that it had 26 grams of soot and initiating the DPF via his laptop would not clean the filter enough. They did an inspection report before I got the machine (20 hours ago) and there were no codes active or logged.
Ok. In that case I'd take a look at the crankcase breather. Follow the breather outlet hose up to where it tee's up to the turbo inlet. If there's oil (slobber) up in that tee there's a good chance the engine is smokey. Those breather filters often get forgotten about.