Well after 84 hours of running my new to me machine, yesterday in the extreme heat the first leak ever happened on the hydraulics in the crowd cylinder. Its not bad, just a dribble, but it will coat the back side of the boom if using it all day. Quote from Deere is 1170 to fix if I bring the machine in there or 990 bucks if I bring the cylinder in there by itself. What do other guys do on your leakers. Again, mine is not bad, but it wont fix itself over time. A buddy of mine says expect to see leaks when its really really hot like now, or when its really really cold. Maybe I wont worry about it until I need to start added hydraulic oil? So far I havent noticed the oil tank even going down. Your thoughts?
I don't have good advice about whether it'll continue to leak in cooler weather. I do suggest Lucas Oil Treatment as an additive. It swells old seals, and may slow your leak. Repacking cylinders is not real difficult. I usually do it on the machine. You need the correct spanner for the cylinder to get the gland apart. People seem to use locktite on the thread, so you may need a propane torch to warm the thread. That'll ruin the paint. Try Broken Tractor for a kit. Usually about $90.00 + shipping + tax.
Well, it eventually happens to all of them. I've had good luck rebuilding them myself. Probably a Youtube video out there on doing one too.
Hey Fred from MO, I created a thread on a cylinder rebuild I did. It is not that hard. Biggest problems I had were cracking the gland nut loose, and loosening and tightening the piston bolt. Link to the thread below...scroll down a bit to where I broke it into paragraphs, it is an easier read. HeavyEquipmentForums
It's not hard to get the crowd cylinder off if you lay the hoe down... Just a bit heavy. Check your local hydraulic repair shop. Many dealers send their stuff out anyways. Mother Deere has to get her cut from the dealers.
There are some really bad videos out there on youtube. One is "how not to repack a cylinder". It has a bunch of guys with a 20 foot pipe on one end with the other end under a 1 ton truck trying to get the nut off. That scares the daylights out of me. If I had the equipment to take one a part, it does not look that bad, but It may be easier to take it off the machine? Who knows?
Good point. One shop quoted $200 bucks which wasnt bad. Wondering how to properly lay it down. Looks like large snap rings keep the cylinder in there.
Nice write up. Thanks The stabilizer looks a little easier to handle since its smaller than the crowd cylinder. My crowd weighs 130lbs!
Fred from MO, I did not remove the whole cylinder. I took the gland nut off and slid the piston out and took this to my workshop for repair. I will soon be doing the lift cylinder, the largest cylinder on the machine. I have already taken the time to break the gland nut loose. The only hard part will be the bolt on the end of the rod (piston nut). I purchased a SK brand 3/4" 36" breaker bar just for cylinders. I am good with a pipe on the wrench as long as the cylinder is secure...hense why I do not remove the pin from the barrel, as it is very secure that way. I have welded up a stand to put the boom on so I know it will not move either. Sometimes the larger cylinders are easier to get together than the small diameter cylinders, i.e. steering cylinder. Another thought...If you get the piston out and cannot get it apart, you can take just the piston, rod, and gland to the hydraulic shop and they will prolly charge you less. If you can get the piston bolt out, you save even more.
I can stand a leaky cylinder for awhile, but like you said, it won't get better. I had good luck on the stabilizer cylinder reseal at a local hydraulic shop. Don't ask me about the valve bank at the same shop, that's another story. I would've resealed it myself, but the rod needed straightening/replaced, so while they had it I let them reseal it. I had the rod out of the cylinder, so they cut me a small break on the reseal. They were also able to do a leak check on it. I'd be about 50/50 wanting to do that crowd cylinder myself vs letting a shop do it. $990 will buy a lot of tools for the 10 additional cylinders on your machine that will eventually need resealing.
If you found a shop that will do it for $200 if you took the cylinder to them is a great deal. Just extend the stick out so you can lower it enough to get the cylinder off. May have to block the boom or use a chain to hold the stick so the cylinder is loose. Under $300 not worth buying a bunch of tools and fighting with it in my opinion. A hyd. shop will have a cylinder bench and save you a lot of frustration if you've never done it.
The other side of that Dave, is that any cylinder that gives the least trouble will be extra labor, they might screw something up that you could have got loose with more patience. IF you knew a place that worked great for others for $200, you probably wouldn't be asking here.
The tractor that I just bought had the crowd cylinder repacked just before I purchased it. I know this because I have the paperwork. The cost was ~$300. Seems good, but the butcher that did it ruined all the pin holes on the gland, then attacked it with a pipe wrench. Looks like ass. I would have used the correct sized spanner and used the old hammer on the barrel trick. I am confident that I could have done it without butchering up the cylinder....it doesn't leak tho
If the OP has never had to get a cylinder done wouldn't know if the $200 quote was from a reputable shop or not but just about everyone has reviews on the net. I took just the rods in to have seals replaced on my 4 in 1 cylinders. Rods were in good shape but gland seals leaked. Seals were about $93 per cylinder and they charged me an hour labor per cylinder which I thought was reasonable. They said they couldn't guarantee them because they couldn't bench test them but I was OK with that. The good thing was they are Cat cylinders with external threads on the body and tapered wider at the opening. I suspect the JD dealer is quoting for a complete cylinder rebuild including honing the bore, polishing the rod, bench testing, new pin bushings and seals, etc. This is good for a machine you make your living with. An independent shop may just do the seals if the rod looks in good shape.
Exactly, a cylinder fails and leaks on a late model machine, and a dealer will expect to hone it. The seals fall apart after 30 years, and you can probably get away with just new seals (less likely it was damage, more likely just age, unless it's your bucket or stabilizer cylinders)
That's about 2X what I paid a few month back for a 310SG crowd cyl repack at the local Deere dealer. I took just the cylinder to them.
Some hyd. shops also gouge on price so it's good to shop around and/or get references.
hopefully it isn't new enough to have the 120 type cylinders where you remove keeper ring, push gland into barrel about 2 inches, insert orange bypass ring for internal snap ring then pull out or blow out with air, God bless new technology if so buy rebuild kit prior to removal orange ring is in package
New enough? those style cylinders go back further than an E in JD's. They will come apart fine without the orange ring, and go back together fine without the ring too, with NEW SEALS obviously. Don't ever use air, use hydraulics however you want to, but never air. If you don't want to use force to pull the piston past the seals and destroy them, then fill the groove with bondo, works better than the orange ring.
use what ever you want to remove it you're REPACKING it. Hydraulic shops use air to move cylinders in and out all the time.
Air has been known to shoot dangerous projectiles across the room. Pressure can build up and suddenly let go. Same reason hydrostatic testing uses fluid rather than air.
I have seen air used on a cylinder bench on the blind side of a cylinder in order to extend it prior to disassembly (gland nut still tight). I have never seen air used once the gland nut is loosened in order to get the cylinder apart...I have heard some real good horror stories tho!
And one of those JD snap ring cylinders would be a perfect projectile launcher.
Thats a good point. With the 21 year old machine, I am sure there will be more leakies to come. Its a drip...drip...drip for now. I think I will limp along until I get my shop built. Then at least I will have a place to pullit apart and "think" about it for a while.....
Yeah, I know of one shop I have tried on a dump trailer, and needless to say, I wont be using that place again. We are somewhat limited in shops in my location.
Good point since its the stick cylinder and they are 21 years old, Im guess they are just old...
Thanks for the info. I guess my guys are really high then.
I think it is this kind where you have to insert the orange ring to take everything out so you dont score up the inside of the cylinder
Interesting I never heard of using bondo. although I see how that could work.
You've given good ideas for me to get my Snorkel TB42's leaking main boom lift cylinder out for repair. Reputable & reasonable hydraulic repair shops around KC, MO apparently are tough to find. Do you have any suggestions, anywhere in Missouri. Also, the hydraulic oil's dingy & I expect to drain, flush & replace the H-fluid, all 25 gallons. Any suggestions?
Nicest set up I've seen was a guy in New Hampshire. Sticks in my mind he called himself American Hydraulics. His whole set up was hand made. He made his own spanners & wrenches. He used a hydraulic cylinder on a track & a swivel. A cup fitted to the end of the hydraulic rod fit over the end of a spanner. Hydraulic was controlled with push buttons. It all looked somewhat crude, but very functional. It has been my experience that hydraulic rebuilders owe their livelihood to big customers. They simply can't find time to repair cylinders for some guy with one cylinder to repack.