I am working on a 310E that I bought because the owner said he couldn`t get it to move in any direction, I am going to start with the forward neutral and reverse diodes and then to the solenoids then to the switches on the gearshift and return to dig switch. For some reason this transmission is in neutral. It has plenty of good hydraulic oil in it and the hydraulics work fine. Can someone point me in the right direction to get this thing moving again? Thanks in advance. Skip
Welcome to HEF Skip ! Serial number? Oil level good? Checked at idle, oil warm. Concentrate on the clutch cutout buttons first.
Welcome to HEF, Skip !
Just to cover a few basics: The big hydraulic oil tank in front of the steering wheel is separate from the hydraulic oil for the transmission. There is a dipstick for the transmission on the R side of the machine. If there is a problem with the trans fluid pressure, this tractor may not move at all. Does the parking brake release? Welcome to HEF!
The parking brake works fine, I was told when I bought it that something was wrong in the driveline section of the transmission as bearing parts were in the bellhousing which turned out to be old starter bendix parts from a failed starter sometime ago. I removed the oil tank pulled the transmission checked the forward and reverse clutch packs and internally the transmission is in great shape, the clutch packs are good and the pistons lock them up tight when air is applied to them. For the life of me I do not see a dipstick anywhere on this transmission. There is a fill location on the right side of the engine which goes into the bottom of the trans housing but no dipstick. I cut open the old trans oil filter and it looked fine. I am refilling with new hydraulic oil and filter. The gears in the trans oil pump looked great with little to no wear at all. I checked the 3 solenoids on the side of the trans and they work. When I drained the torque converter the oil that came out was clean as new. I have the trans back in and buttoned up and reconnecting everything but I am thinking it has to be something electrical holding it out either a solenoid a relay a diode or one of the neutral kick out switches. I will get a s/n today and get back to you guys. I hate to think I pulled the transmission and it turns out to be something simple like a relay or switch but all I had to go on was what the previous owner told me. This is a great forum I really appreciate you guys helping me on this
S/N on this machine is T0310EX850346
You have the Synchro/Shuttle transmission, correct? 4 speed in the floor with the fwd, neutral, rev lever on the steering column. MG can look it up, but with 3 solenoids on the side, you have a 4wd machine? The solenoids on top of the trans control valve are for forward, neutral, and reverse. I would make sure that electrical connector is mated up properly. The side ones are for MFWD, Diff lock, parking brake. If the parking brake releases properly, then that means the trans charge pump is making pressure. Certainly seems to be pointing towards an electrical control issue. Those clutch cutout buttons MG mentioned could certainly cause your symptom. Also if the trans is not in gear. I assume you have the 2 manuals for this machine?
I have a manual for a G model but things look to be really similar. Yep its a 4wd shuttle shift. Since I cannot find a dipstick on this transmission anywhere I am guessing it is flooded by the hydraulic oil tank but then why would there be a fill cap for it on the right side of the engine. I am waiting on one diode that I found to be bad but I dont think it has anything to do with the transmission. When I drained the transmission before i pulled it about 5 gallons of oil came out of the drain plug. Inside the transmission there was no sign of what I call CLABBER or oil and water mixed. Somewhere there has to be diodes for the FNR solenoids on the top of the transmission I would really like to find and check them but as of yet I haven`t been able to find them. There is a relay behind the instrument panel that I need to check too. If I get it all back togther and cant find whats wrong I may turn to Jack Daniels for relief
Well what to my surprise I pulled the fill cap for the transmission and LO and Behold there is a dipstick on the fill cap. Now do I feel like a dummy?
So with the machine running on level ground is the correct oil level on the dipstick? If the parking brake releases properly, then I would think the oil is ok. Might be time to take a bright flashlight and inspect the wiring harness. Mice and squirrels like to chew wiring.
Cant crank it up yet I`m still putting the transmission back in it, John Deere says it will be 10 days before the new diode comes in. Once I have all of the hoses and harness reconnected I can fill the transmission and hydraulic tank and check for leaks and wait on the diode
Hate to say it, it is almost never the transmission when there is a loss of both Forward and Reverse at the same time. The most common reasons for a loss of both forward and reverse on the transmissions in those machines are: 1. Blown F9 FNR/Park Brake Fuse 2. Clutch cutout button (either the loader lever or on the 4 speed shifter) or its associated wiring 3. Faulty FNR lever switch. 4. Stuck Modulation spool in the transmission control valve (rare) Least common but happens, failure of the transmission pump, pump mounting O-rings, pump suction tube cracked or it's mounting O-ring, all of which you said looks good??
I'm really curious as to what your problem turns out to be. Please keep us posted.
Absolutely will it has been pouring down rain here for the past 2 days and I am waiting on a diode from JD but I will keep everyone posted with what I find. I do have a question can I just use regular hydraulic oil in the transmission or is there something different I need to use. If anyone is interested this is what they look like inside
Use John Deere Hygard oil in it. Looks like there might have been be a few flakes on the pickup tube screen? Were you not tempted to go ahead and rebuild the clutch packs? It is a 20 year old tractor.
Second the JD Hygard in the trans.
I pulled the clutch packs apart thinking I would rebuild them but the ones that were there measured out thicker than new ones and there was no indication of wear on the floaters and the friction discs looked great. I put 100lbs of air on the clutch packs and they locked up solid I`m thinking the new ones are made in China or India or someplace like that. The pickup screen was clean and I flushed it out just to be safe but it was clean as could be
I replaced mine a couple of years ago now and the new ones did require a thicker ring but was within overall spec. I found that several of the clutches were separated.
Here is what my pickup tube looked like.
Whoa, JL, that was plugged. Did you notice clutch material in your oil? What were your symptoms?
Mine looked nothing like that I checked every disc and floater and they looked like I just took them out of the package. I cut open the trans filter and there was nothing in it al all
Even with those worn out frictions it would still move around while the fluid was cold and not aerated. After about 20 minutes of running though the tractor would set parking brake and trans oil would be foaming. I didn't really notice clutch material in the oil at first, but it was quite dirty. I took a bore scope and looked at that screen from the inside of the tube and saw all that material. At first I thought it was organic or something. I used diesel fuel to backwash a bunch of that material off, but with all those frictions breaking down in the trans it would just keep on loading up.
My parking brake would set and hold and release just fine. I think I went at mine backwards starting with the hardest thing first but when the previous owner said he found bearing parts in the bellhousing and I found small metal pieces I took him at his word and figured there was something wrong with the transmission it turned out to be an old starter bendix. The thing that should have tipped me off was there was no trans fluid in the bellhousing and a bad bearing would have torn up the torque converter seal and it would have been leaking.
Nah, you're just getting to know your new to you backhoe. I wonder what shape the synchronizers are in? If they are in good shape you can shift gears on the move. If they are worn out you can shift gears mostly just stopped.
Well its all back togther and filled with trans and hydraulic fluid, no leaks. I rained for the past 3 days so I just got it finished up today. Charging the batteries and I`ll crank it up tomorrow and see what happens. I found the 3 diodes I was looking for under the machine by the left rear tire. I haven`t checked them yet I am gonna wait and see what happens tomorrow.
Good luck with it.
Be nice if that screen had an inspection panel, although by the looks of it, it doesn't appear to be a fine mesh screen. Did it move?
It still wont move or release the parking brake
Before you pulled the trans, didn't the parking brake release properly? If so, you may have simply swapped the electrical connector on that solenoid when putting it all back together. If that all checks out, I guess I would put a pressure gauge on the trans system pressure port and see if you have charge pressure.
It did release fine, which solenoid is that I just may have gotten them wrong. There are 3 on the side for the 4wd and the one big plug on the trans but thats all I saw. I really appreciate all the help you guys are giving me.
Where is the test port on the charge pump I will get a gauge on it too, I was wondering what it was putting out anyway.
I found this on the net. Not exactly yours, but look for the port labeled PS. That is a metric thread port. I believe it's 10mm. When all is well I get approx 240 psi there.
Thanks Sargent I ordered a 10 mm adapter to fit my gauge set today. I found the wires to the clutch disconnect button on the loader completely chewed in half today. I have to find the other ends and check out the button and reconnect that too
So I guess that was the original problem?
I`m not so sure there are a bunch of splices and cut wires in there. It looks like a 2 year old was in there so I am gonna have to figure it all out. I can jump the starter and it will start up and all of the external hydraulics work just fine but I cant get it to key start or release the parking brake. I took an ohm meter and read the FNR lever on the steering column and it reads out ok. This will be a good machine when I get this all straightened out. The parking brake would release and lock back on when I unloaded it and now it wont unlock. And I am still stuck with the original problem that it wont move. Jack Daniels is looking better and better
Well the plug in the PS port will not come out for any reason
Maybe carefully try an impact driver on it? https://www.ebay.com/itm/393472551917?epid=10017745459&hash=item5b9ccaabed:g:JCoAAOSweQVhA0GW
Nope it will not come out, I removed the large line from the transmission to the rear end and cranked it up and it barely has a trickle coming out of the hose.
That sounds like the park brake pressure line. There would be no oil there unless you turned the park brake off. Then you would have a mess . Go back to post#12 and check items 1, 2 and 3 in that order before doing transmission pressure checks.
I went through the FNR lever with a meter and it is working as it should in all positions, I did find the wires to the clutch cutout button on the loader lever chewed through and reconnected them with good butt splices. None of the fuses are blown but mine has some of the lettering faded out as the photos show. This thing really has me stumped.
One of the control valve bolts was completely stripped out on my backhoe when I got it. Those plugs and bolts have a nice proud shoulder. I popped the face of the bolt one time with a small ball peen hammer. Then I was able to carefully get a pair of vise grips on it and remove it that way. As far as testing the charge pump: I once removed the transmission oil filter and hung a 5 gal bucket just under where that filter goes. I turned the engine over a few times to see if I had fluid flow from the filter mount. If no oil shoots out that mount, you don't have a charge pump for some reason. Now that pump really pumps it out if working properly, so don't run it more than a few seconds.
Thats what I was going to try next I hate to be that desperate but I think thats what I am going to do. I am going to try the bucket tomorrow afternoon, the trans only holds about 9 qts so if it is working you are right it will only take a few seconds to empty it.
If my charge pump is bad does anyone have a suggestions where to get a good one NOT from John Deere they rob you and dont even use a gun
You said this earlier. If you release the brake and use your hoe to roll the machine do the wheels turn (which would indicate the brake is actually releasing)? If so your transmission pump should be OK. Do you have voltage to the T52 blue wire at the transmission control valve when the engine is running and the park brake released? Check this wire by backprobing carefully rather than having the connector disconnected. Purchase backprobes if necessary or use a "T" pin. Check the wiring real good also where the harness runs over the transmission control valve. It likes to ruin wires at that location.
Cant I just pierce the insulation with my meter probe
T pins are cheap. Here is a video on doing it.
The T52 blue wire is the blue wire on the round plug that attaches to the top left side of the transmission correct? It goes into the control valve solenoids on the top. The 3 on the side are for the 4wd am I correct? When we unloaded it off the truck the parking brake worked and I could pull it with the bucket. Now I have the back tires completely off the ground and when we start it up and try to release the parking brake and turn the tires by hand you can feel the parking brake has the tires locked solid. I left the driveshafts disconnected so that I could see if the rear yoke was turning when I put it in fwd or reverse and no matter what I do it dosent turn either way.
Diff Lock, Parking Brake, MFWD are the three solenoids on the side of the trans from top to bottom. Reverse, foward and neutral are in the top of the control valve. Know that the parking brake is spring applied and hydraulically released. So the parking brake is applied all the time except when electrical controls are working properly and through that electrical control enough hydraulic pressure is applied to the brake to release it.
You know when I checked those solenoids when I had the transmission out the middle solenoid didnt feel right and it had a discolored place on it. I am going to swap the MFWD solenoid with the Parking brake one and see what happens. I cant tell you guys how much I appreciate all of your help with this maybe one day I can help someone else along the way
Well I was going to do the bucket thing today and when I removed the filter there was hardly any oil in it. I would have expected it to be full but it was almost empty
We did the bucket thing this evening and it blew out about 2 qts in about 5 seconds. Plenty of volume but no way to check the pressure. I held my hand on the parking brake solenoid and it was warm to the touch. I haven`t had a chance to swap them out. Does anyone have a pic of what that lighted panel looks like I know the one for oil pressure and it goes out as soon as the machine starts but the others I have no idea what they mean.
So that proves the charge pump is at least doing something. Have you verified that you have 12v at the parking brake solenoid when you press the release button? This brochure shows the panel, but does not explain the lights.
Boone beat me to it
Haha, I'll leave the complicated transmission stuff to you guys. I can do the easy stuff
I will be out of town till tomorrow afternoon but as soon as I get back I will check the power to the solenoid. I never put a meter on it because I could feel it click when we turned the parking brake off. It may be that it is clicking but not opening up. I will pull the coil and the valve to check it out or just swap it with the MFWD solenoid as they have the same part number
Holy ****. That’s nasty!
The trans oil was getting aerated real bad and I couldn't figure out why. My teenage son said he could hear a real high pitched squeal when the tractor was running. The charge pump couldn't get the oil it needed with all that debris on the screen and it was pulling air around the o-ring where the pump mounts to the trans and my kid's young ears could hear it.
This is what I am getting when I apply the parking brake I get a light but it dosen`t release
Right. So the spring applies the brake all the time. You have to have the electrical and hydraulic sorted out before it will release. Or in other words 200+ PSI of hydraulic pressure has to be applied to the parking brake before it will release.
I know its spring applied and hydraulic released but the test plug wont budge I have used an impact gun and when that rounded off the flats in the plug then I tried vise grips no good so I really have no way to check the pressure. I dont want to chew it up so bad I end up I have to get a new valve body. I`m going out now to swap the parking brake solenoid valve with the 4wd one to see what happens
Order some of these and you will have just about everything you need to test pressure on everything. If you can't test on the valve test at the hose going to the park brake.
I got the plug out by driving a torx bit into it and using an impact gun, but I was tired and my hands shaking so bad I dropped the adapter and it rolled somewhere and I`m to tired to look for it tonight
Only problem I see with those kits is they are flare. The backhoe in question has O-ring face seal fittings so still wouldn't quite have a solution. Glad the plug is out!
I have looked everywhere and I cannot find the 5mm adapter the machine is sitting on a concrete slab heading into my shop and I have looked everywhere on the backhoe and I cannot find it. I started it up without the plug and it shot a stream of oil straight back past the rear end so I think it has plenty of pressure. If I cant find the adapter I am going to put the plug back in and look for an electrical problem
Don't put that crappy plug back in, get you a new one from JD. Also for reference that test adapter is M10 x 1 I believe.
I thought it was a 5mm plug
I`m heading to JD in the morning
For testing ZF trans pressures get one of these
That and Parker PD series coupler compatible test set would do it. Parker catalog does show that thread size: Connection Thread Size (mm): M10 X 1.0 and most of those Chinese kits include that one. https://ph.parker.com/us/en/test-port-couplings-diagnostic-up-to-6000-psi-pd-series-nipples/pd357
Ok guys I had to wait on Amazon to bring me another test plug and it came in today and I have between 220 and 230 lbs of pressure at idle. I am picking up the new plug I ordered from John Deere wednesday morning. So it is looking like an electrical problem do you guys agree?
I think that should do it hydraulic wise. When mine was sick and the pressure fell below 200 psi, the brake would apply. While the tractor is running and with the steering column lever in neutral, you should be able to rock the parking brake switch to on and then off and the brake release.
From the looks of the lights on the parking brake switch I think its bad or has a bad ground. They will come on really dim and flicker I am going to get another one from JD tomorrow. I was also wondering there is a supposed to be a MFWD switch but mine is missing so I will get JD to order me a new one for that also. Now that I have eliminated the hydraulics I can concentrate on the electrical. The contacts on the relays look pretty bad too. This will be a good machine for what I want to do around the farm if I can ever get it sorted out. I have 2 tree stumps right where I want to put my new airplane hanger behind the barn and the backhoe is holding everything up
Well I went out this afternoon to check the pressure before I put the plug back and went after electrical and when I started it up it took about 30 seconds to prime up and when it did it went to 200 and started to fluctuate wildly between 200 and 230, I cut the machine off and when I started it back up I had zero oil pressure. I thought the gauge might have been bad so I loosened the hose to the gauge there was no oil. I took the gauge completely off the hose and there was no oil coming from the hose at all. Now I am back to square one. Any suggestions?
Well, I know that's not what you had in mind. Did you hear any unusual noises? Trans fluid level still good? I would be tempted to see if there is still flow at the filter mount? 30 seconds before you see anything on the gauge seems like a long time. That transmission charge pump is directly coupled to the engine. When the engine is turning, so should that charge pump. The pump is driven by a driveshaft that runs through the trans. The pump pushes the hydraulic fluid through the filter and to the valve body which controls the pressure. If you have zero flow at the filter mount now, I would pull the pump and inspect it and that driveshaft. I imagine MG will check in and he may have other suggestions.
Thats true but the main pump drives off the charge pump and I have good hydraulics to the buckets, stabilizers etc so the charge pump has to be turning
That's correct. So the driveshaft is good. On mine the charge pump broke a gear due to the stopped up inlet screen. I had good hydraulics on the buckets, but nothing out of the charge pump. Here is the thread. HeavyEquipmentForums
Yep I read that one it really gave you a fit, my inlet screen was spotless and the clutch plates looked good so internally I think my trans is good. I pulled the charge pump off the trans and looked at it when I had it out and nothing was broken but I didnt measure it for wear it looked like a simple gear pump to me. I`m gonna drop the filter again today and see what I get. Whats driving me crazy is I have 200 lbs and then zero. My JD book says I should have 232 plus 44 minus 0. I hate to think I have to pull this transmission again. I can change the charge pump without doing that but that valve body is a bear to get to.
Well I went to Harbor Freight and got a decent gauge set and hoses. I hook it up and have 235 lbs solid. When I shift the FNR lever I can feel the pressure in the hose fluctuate and the gauge drops about 10 lbs and rises back up in about 2 or 3 seconds. When I flip the parking brake switch again I feel the hose pulse and the gauge drops about 10 lbs and rises right back up. Now WHY I had zero oil pressure last night and 230 TO 240 now I have absolutely no idea. I have plenty of oil in the transmission, do these things need to be burped to get all of the air out of the system?
Glad that pump is putting out. Could just leave that pressure gauge hooked up for a while as you hunt down the electrical problem(s).
Well the parking brake is releasing after all I started it up lifted the stabilizers and bucket and it rolled backwards down the slight incline in front of my shop. I took the hoe and pushed it back to where it was. Now I still have to figure out why the transmission isnt turning. I still have 240 on my gauge so it must have had some air in the system. I am going to check the clutch pack pressures tomorrow.
I feel like you've about come full circle with this backhoe. Now to sort out this last part of the puzzle.
Sarge I feel like I have been chasing my tail
Let's hope all that's left is a broken wire or such.
God I hope so I`m about ready to send it to the auction
Well about the only thing left is to go into the valve body I have tried everything and the trans will not engage
Plug into the port marked PM. You will need a 90* fitting to do that (Parker No. 4M10C80MX (7/16 -20 37° x m10 x 1) Elbow). measure and record the pressure in neutral, then shift into forward, then reverse. Watch what the gauge does. Be specific as to what it does and post the results. It should read about 40 in neutral, then drop initially when a shift is made then ramp up to system pressure. It should take about 2 seconds total. All tests should be at 1500 rpm. If it does go up to system pressure then check the forward and reverse (PF and PR) pressures and post them as well.
Will do I will run to fastenall tomorrow and get the fitting I really appreciate all the help you guys have given me I would have been running round in circles without you folks What is system pressure around 230 to 240?
232-276 psi
Picked up the fittings today but it was dark when I got home so I will try it tomorrow and post what I find
MG I have a question for you guys. I bought 3 straight fittings and 2 90 degree elbows and 5 blind flare caps from the Parker hydraulic store here in town. I am thinking about leaving them in the valve body and after I get through I can put the blind caps on them in case I need to check it again. It`s pretty safe under there and I dont see any chance of them getting knocked off any way. What do you guys think.
That should be fine. Just make sure there is no interference between the PM port and the shift lever.
Yeah, I routed a gauge up to the ROPS near the side panel and watched system pressure for several weeks after replacing my charge pump. Eventually I was convinced it wall all good and removed it.
Well here is the sad sad story, I have 260 psi at the PS port at 1500 rpm and I have 40 psi at the pm module in any gear at any time. I can shift from fwd to reverse and feel the gauge line pulse really slightly but it isnt even enough to make the gauge move. I will post a video of the PM gauge next.
40 lbs no matter what. What do you guys think a stuck spool valve?
I'm not sure what to think. MG will have an idea about what to do next. When you put the trans back together, did you have any trouble bringing the two halves against each other. May not be the problem, but I'm just thinking about those metal sealing rings on the ends of the clutch shafts. Those are easy to break when bringing the trans case back together.
Does the gauge needle connected to the PM port "deflect" when making the shift or remain rock steady when making the shift? JL makes a good point in regards to the steel ring on the clutch shaft. Very easy to break.
The trans went back togther just fine I made sure the seal ring ends were locked and was really careful about them. The gauge remains rock steady and never moves at all. Remember this was the problem before I took the trans out so I think it’s something else but I have no idea what. This was the problem when I bought the machine I know the previous owner and he said it was working fine when he last used it and it sat up for about a year and when he went to use it again it wouldn’t move
Didn't you find several wires that were broken after reinstalling the trans? I wondered if that was what kept it from working right to start with. That fact that the gauge doesn't move at all has me wondering if your solenoids in the top of the control valve are really moving? Could you move the steering wheel selector with your left hand while touching the top of the control valve through the floor access with your right hand to see if you can feel those solenoids moving? I would try all kinds of tests before I tore into that trans again.
You are right I would rather paint my house with a tooth brush than go through all of that again
Isnt there a valve, spring and shims underneath that solenoid. I wonder which one is the modulatrion solenoid.
Well there are 3 solenoids in the top of the control valve and there are an assortment of spools and springs under each one. In another thread I took the whole thing apart and took a picture of it. Far left is pressure regulating and converter relief, then next to it is modulating. Then first solenoid is forward/reverse shift. Then the neutral and then lastly far right is pressure reducing valve.
Thanks Sarge I guess I am gonna have to pull it off and look at it. I REALLY wish I had done that when it was sitting on the floor in my shop
I'm not an expert. I just own one of these backhoes and have worked on the trans and control valve. Which adds up to kinda like staying at a Holiday Inn Express. If a wire was broken going to those solenoids, would it not act just like yours is doing right now? I have found a picture of how it all works. I'll post it.
Thanks Sarge you have been a huge help with this thing I cant tell you guys how much I appreciate it. I think I am gonna bite the bullet and pull it off. It`s pouring down rain here but tomorrow I will get it off. I dont see a way to back probe it without pulling that cover and it looks like it is under a spring load so I would rather take it apart on the bench rather than in the open
You should be able to verify those solenoids through that round electrical connector. I would give MG a chance to look at your last pressure tests and see what he suggests you do next before pulling the control valve.
Yeah its funny I can feel the gauge hose pulse really light when we move the FNR lever but the pressure gauge stays rock solid. I was wondering what if I shot 100 psi of compressed air into the test port, if a spool is stuck it might break it free or if the orifice is plugged it might clear it
No needle movement tells me there is an electrical problem.
Can I remove the plug from the valve body and check for voltage there, I have already replaced the parking brake and 4wd switches. There isnt any way to put 12 volts on the solenoids because the connections are underneath that cover that holds down a spring
Ok Guys still 40 lbs at 1500, I removed the electrical plug from the valve body, 4 wires 3 blue and one black. At 1500 the black reads to ground as it should, the 3 blue wires have 12 volts at the correct time with the engine running. In fwd there is 12 volts on one wire, in rev there is 12 volts on another wire and in neutral there is 12 volts on the remaining wire. The neutral wire will cycle with the parking brake switch and the fwd and rev wires will cycle with the buttons on the loader lever and the manual shifter. This tells me that there is 12 volts going to the solenoids at the correct time do you agree. I have already removed the shifter and the bolts holding the external hydraulic pump. Do you have any idea how many bolts hold the valve body to the transmission? I would hate to be trying to remove it and it still have a bolt in it. It looks like 23 or 24 bolts but I want to be sure.
You know that does sound about right electrically. A single black wire does sister across all 3 solenoids. There are 23 bolts on that control valve judging by the picture I posted above. There is a plate with gasket material fused to it that is mounted just behind the control valve. If you pull that control valve, JD recommends replacing that plate. I did that, but I also thought the older plate was better with a thicker gasket. I was very tempted to reinstall my old one.
Sarge I can’t think of anything else it could be the charge pump is making 240 lbs, the FNR lever is sending 12 volts to the solenoids, the parking brake switch is working, the momentary disconnect buttons are working the clutch packs are good and locked up tight with air pressure it seems like it has to be in the solenoids or something in the valve body. I’m going to JD in the morning and get the plate and gaskets. It seems like I remember reading somewhere about that gasket rupturing and causing a problem too. We get a downpour here every day and the machine is sitting on the concrete pad in front of my shop so when the rain comes I have to quit. I told my brother when we get this thing fixed I’m getting us a bottle of Gentleman Jack and we are gonna celebrate
I wonder what MG thinks
The voltages to the solenoids and the ground should be checked by backprobing (carefully with a Tee pin or equivalent), not by using open circuit potential. If you still have the 12 volts at each solenoid wire when required and and less than 0.1 volts on the ground side, then yes you may need to remove the control valve for inspection. Also does the wire for the neutral solenoid (T52 Blue) have 12 volts when you shift into forward or reverse with the park brake released? When you had the transmission out was the control valve removed then?
I`ll go and back probe it but I didnt remove the control valve when the trans was out, there is no voltage to the neutral solenoid in fwd or rev, there is only voltage at the appropriate pin at the appropriate time when the FNR selector is moved into posistion
If you do end up pulling the control valve, disassemble, inspect, and clean it all real well. I would pick up a transmission brush set like this and go through all the bores with it. I used WD-40 as a cleaner when I did mine. https://www.transmissionpartsdistri...e-brush-set-with-5-8-7-8-1-1-8-1-3-8-brushes/
Guys I turned Savannah Ga inside out today looking for t pins and all I got was funny looks. I stopped by JD and ordered the gasket and plate kit (2 gaskets and a plate). Sarge did you use any gasket sealer on yours and does anyone know what to torque the little bolts to when it goes back. I already have the shifter and external hydraulic pump removed so I may as well pull the valve body. Like I said I can feel a slight pulse in the line when I shift but the gauge never moves off 40 lbs. Its almost like a spool valve is stuck or something. I would love to be able to test the solenoid valves without pulling the valve body but I dont want to start taking it apart while its under the floorboard. I could use a sharpened piece of wire to back probe it but I really dont want to go jabbing something into the wires under there, the wires arent marked there is only 3 blue wires and a black one.
Craft stores carry them...Hobby Lobby, Jo-Anns, etc.
Ok so I stole the needle out of my wife’s high dollar Swedish sewing machine and back probed the wires I’ll post the results as soon as I can get a shower and a coffee but from what I saw it’s looking more and more like something is bad inside the valve body. I had to back probe it with the engine off because the shifter and main hyd pump are already out
Here is what we got without the engine running. 1. Ground wire 71MV in fwd or reverse 61mv in neutral 26 mv parking brake on 62 off 2.Fwd wire 11.08 volts in fwd 82 mv in neutral and 114 mv in reverse 3.Neutral wire 10.5 v in all posistions of FNR lever 4. Reverse wire 10.7 v in reverse with 81mv in fwd and 114 in neutral
I got th thinking I’m not sure about the neutral wire having voltage in all 3 posistions I will recheck it tomorrow afternoon. It was starting to rain when I was writing it down and I may have it wrong
Looks like it is doing what it is supposed to electrically. Yes, the neutral wire should have voltage in all positions when the park brake is off. Their needs to be voltage to two of the blue wires at the same time for the machine to move. Forward and neutral to go forward and reverse and neutral to go into reverse. If there is no voltage to the neutral wire that is like pushing the clutch disconnect button on the loader lever. It breaks the connection to the neutral solenoid to put the trans in neutral.
So I need to pull the control valve then do you agree
If it passed that electrical checkout, then I don't know what else there is to do but pull it and inspect it. May be a broken spring or stuck valve to find.
Sarge did you use any sealer on your gaskets and what did you torque the screws down to do you remember. My new gasket set comes as a kit with two gaskets and a plate so I don’t think any gasket material is bonded to the plate
No, that is a very intricate gasket/plate. No way to use a sealant really and I don't think JD recommends that. The 310E technical manual TM1649 shows those to be torqued at 84 lbs-in. If you don't already have that manual, I strongly suggest you get one. There are all kinds of things you need to know. Those end caps need torquing, internal orifice, set screw, tightening sequence of bolts, solenoid hold down bolt torque, etc. It's about 800 pages of tear down / put together info not including the engine. The charge pump to transmission cap screws are 85 ft lbs. Found this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/303416887161?hash=item46a50e4779:g:iA4AAOSwZ45hCkAG
I have a manual for a 310G and they are supposed to be the same, just figured I would ask first. It is a really intricate gasket and plate thats for sure I didnt think you could use sealer on it and get one little bit in the valve body and stick a spool or something. It seems like I remember somewhere that JD used to use a bonded plate and gasket too
FYI: There are 2 manuals for that machine not including the engine. There is also the Operation and Test TM-1648.
WELL crack open the champagne and call the dancing girls we think we found it. After my brother and I sat and thought about it we suspected the neutral solenoid so after I got the valve body off we went there first and found the neutral spool valve stuck tight in its bore. It took a lot of carb cleaner and working back and forth but we got it out without damaging anything. I could take a small screwdriver and move the fwd and reverse spools just fine but the neutral spool wouldn`t budge. It had the small spring underneath the spool compressed so we had to work it back and forth many many times it was almost seized in the bore. I will take them out and clean them one at a time and put everything back togther. Do you think I can polish the spool with some crocus cloth and re use it or should I get a new spool. We think we have found the problem do you guys agree
Sounds like you've gotten to the root cause of the problem. You'll be building a runway in no time.
Mine looks like is is teflon coated or parkerized or something but it dosent work in the bore smoothly like it should
My brother has 4 little grandsons who are about to wet their pants to go flying in the new 2 seat ultralight so now I can open up the end of the runway and take them out safely
Well the valve body is all cleaned up and the spools all work freely. The gasket plate and top gasket came today so we put it back in tomorrow afternoon keeping my fingers crossed
May the force be with you.
With my luck it will be more like May the farce be with you
GOT IT DONE !!! Put it all back togther today and everything works just like it should. Tomorrow I will put the driveshafts, floorboards, hydraulic oil tank cover and all the little things and put it to work. I cannot thank all of you guys enough for your help and encouragement. It was a battle but it was worth it. THANKS AGAIN GUYS
Congratulations! I know that's a good feeling. This thread will be a great troubleshooting thread for anyone with transmission issues. Between Sarg, MG and you, I think you have covered about all that could go wrong.
I hope it will help someone else, I was looking under the backhoe and told my brother to start it up and put it in forward and the yoke didnt move, my heart sank but then I told him to cycle the parking brake and when he did that it started spinning like it should. He then put it in neutral and it spun down to a stop and he put it in reverse it started spinning in the other direction. Then we checked the 4wd and it worked like it should too. I`ll finish putting it back togther tomorrow and put it to work. Again I want to say thanks to all of you guys for your help
Great. Glad to hear it.
Congrats!!! Trust me, the knowledge you learned in working on, and fixing the machine will be helpful in the future.
I used it today and it works great I have only 1 problem, the backhoe control valve looks like it got cracked somehow and it was brazed up but it is leaking pretty bad. Does anyone have any idea where I might get a used one. It sure is nice to shift between fwd and reverse and it shifts smoothly. If I can find a control valve everything will be working just like it should
Boone took his 310SE backhoe valve apart and reworked it not long ago. His valve is different I imagine, but would give you an idea of how they are put together. I doubt you need the whole shebang, but rather you might need just parts of it. Might look at JD parts online and see what can be bought there. I have seen the whole thing on Ebay, but that's $2 to $3K used.
On mine the block is cracked and someone tried to weld it back togther and the welding looks like a cats ass sewn shut with a grapevine. even if I have to spend 2k for the think I will still have less than 5 k in the entire machine
The standard valve bank comes apart in about 6 chunks. The inlet and outlet and the four valve bodies. Maybe you can get by with just replacing the one that is cracked. All those valve bodies seem a bit different from each other. It's probably important to match the replacement.
it looks like only 1 block is leaking but I havent gotten into it yet.
A backhoe valve section from Deere can be anywhere from $2200-$3800. Which section is it? Post a picture.
It’s the one on the far left
How anyone could break that valve body is beyond me but then they tried to braze it back togther
Yeah, I don't see how you could crack one of those unless you dropped it. This looks like your arrangement.
That looks right. So Skip you have an extendible dipperstick on your hoe? Maybe that one valve can be swapped on the machine?
Yeah I have no idea either I am going to pull it off this afternoon and take it to John Deere and tell them I need a new one. No Sarge I sure dont I would swap it out with it if I could but I guess I’m just gonna have to bite the bullet on this one
The extreme temperature changes put stress on the valve sections. The pressures they are subjected to. Especially if the reliefs are set tooo high. Possible uneven or incorrect torque values applied to the valve body bolts. #4 & 6 in the drawing.
Ok guys this is what I have looking down from above also when I press the pedal in the back it sprays oil around that nut like a geyser. I think I need to get that outer block what do y’all think
Which nut ?
its not in that pic its the tie rod nut in the other pic
Ok. It doesn't look like that feeble attempt at a repair was time wasted. I would think a replacement is the only option.
I think you are right I am going to JD in the morning and order a new one. This should be the last of the big issues with it. There will always be small things like hoses and stuff but this should get it so I can start clearing a section at the end of my runway. When I get it going right I`ll post some pics. I am going to put a thumb on it at some point in the future but right now I just want to get it going well.
Make sure you get section O-rings. I think the new section comes with a section O-ring, so that means you would need 4 more. Part number T118685.
I made a typo error and didn't see it when I post the enlarged image. I meant to say--- It Looks like that feeble attempt at a repair was time wasted.
So you are saying I cant change just that one section but pull it completely apart and put all new o rings in the other sections too. What does that section do anyway I dont see any hoses connected to it unless they are in the back of that block
That's exactly what he's saying. You would need a total of 5 section O-rings to reseal all the sections back together if you pull the whole thing. Your situation with it being the end one, does beg the question. Could you disconnect and replace that one section and be back in business?
You could but the issue usually is (1) the nuts on the tie bolts may not come off the correct side and there is not enough room to slip them out and (2) once they are loose there is always dirt, debris or grit of some sort between the sections and when loosened they fall down in between the sections. If that happens or if the grit is in the wrong spot it will either leak or could cause a spool to bind. My recommendation is to always pull the complete valve to repair it.
What does that block do
That's why I asked if you have an extendable dipperstick. Looks like that's what the valve is for.
OK so this is what John Deere in Savannah told me, that valve block it’s for an external dipper stick or an external jackhammer since I don’t have either one that valve block is not needed so before I spend the money on a new valve that will never see any pressure they recommended taking the nut off the tie rod cleaning it up real good putting an O-ring and flat washer against it and tighten it back down I will remove all the linkage and pedal going to that valve block so it will never see any high pressure. They do not make a block off plate to replace that valve black wheels so it’s either try that or buy new valve block
I think I get what you're saying, but from the pictures, you don't have many threads left to be putting washers and rings. Seems it might get you by for a little while if you could manage it. I'm with you, I woudln't want to spend 2 or 3 grand for a valve I don't even use. Another option would be to replace the cracked valve with the outlet valve. Here's a used one for $350. https://www.wengers.com/outlet-section-valve-at150304.html It says it's for a 310D, but it has the part number for the E. It does look a bit different from mine (pictured below). I'm curious where you're outlet valve is? Is it build into the auxiliary valve? I don't even see it in your pictures.
That’s what has got me stumped it has to be in the back somewhere. I sure wish they made a block off plate for that valve. I will stop by JD in Savannah tomorrow and get them to run that p/n and see if it will work. I don’t mind 350 to get it sealed up good but 2 grand hurts big time
Well according to JD that block will work so I ordered the block and picked up 5 orings today in Savannah.
Well this is what I have behind it under the floor board now I’m not so sure that block will work
You could probably make it work, but it might require replumbing with new lines, fittings and plugs. Might get a bit involved and spendy. If it would help, I could get you plumbing diagram on my machine but I only have a 4 valve setup. I can tell you that my outlet feeds the stabilizer valve with one hose and then the big low pressure hose on the side of the outlet goes to the tank or filter. I'd have to get under my machine to see where the big pipe off the stabilizer valve goes.
I will finish getting mine off this weekend and the one I ordered from Wengers will be here tuesday and then I will have a better idea of what I am dealing with. After I cleaned it up I started the machine up and that block is leaking from several places. I told my brother today that unlike the transmission I am above the oil leaks and not below them so at least I dont get an oil bath every time I work on it.
Well fellas this is what the outlet block looked like. Both lines from it were capped off so I am wondering if it had been dead heading and that had blown out the big o ring. I looked it over and couldn’t see where it was cracked or broken but there had to be a reason someone brazed on it. I am gonna remove the two capped off lines and blank off the ports on the new one
Skip, I looked over my machine yesterday and am realizing how differently our machines appear to be plumbed. I'm now wondering based on your stabilizer valve picture if your cracked valve is your inlet side? Here's a side by side of mine on the left (looking from the bottom of machine) and yours on the right looking from the top. There are two lines off my outlet valve, the small line going to the stabilizer and the not pictured big line going to the filter housing. It looks like the big line on your cracked valve is going to the stabilizer valve which tells me that's the high pressure side. It would be interesting to know where the line off your filter housing is going. That would tell you where your outlet is located. I'm guessing it's on the right side of your valve bank looking from back to front.
You are right the line from both the pump and filter go to the block on the right side. It’s tough to get a good pic. I thought that since it was the block on the pump side it was the inlet
What puzzles me is why does the pump AND the filter go to the same valve block and that one has no provision for a spool valve or outlet connections
Sounds like that may be a priority valve? Does it look like this? You can find all this on Deere's online parts catalog. I think it's purpose is to divert inlet flow to the valves that need it and then if the valves aren't actuated, it diverts back to the filter? Maybe. Wish I could be of more help. This sounds like a totally different animal than mine.
I wonder if Skip has open center hydraulic system and Boone has closed.
Pretty sure they're both open center. The valves have power passages that allow oil to pass through even when not in use. I did find a diagram of how mine is plumbed which shows the inlet from the pump and outlet to the filter housing. But I don't see Skip's version in the manual. On edit: This picture is from the SE service manual. Guess there is a separate manual for the E?
I did have one thing wrong in my picture of the stabilizer valve. I labeled in red the big line coming from the pump, but it's coming from the loader valve.
The E is different. A main hydraulic pump is mounted to the transmission charge pump and that main pump supplies fluid/pressure for FEL, stab, and backhoe functions straight away. There is no unloading valve (20) as pictured above. There is no aux hyd pump (3) as above. I just tried to go to John Deere parts to look up the SE hyd pump and the site is unavailable at this time. I've always thought that the "E" was an open system while the SE was closed.
This picture shows how the main hydraulic system is plumbed. Just that one pump on the back of the transmission charge pump.
That’s how mine is plumbed just like the diagram Sarge posted
I see what you're saying now JL and that picture helps to show the differences. I now see two main pump diagrams in the parts manual, one for the E and one for the SE. That's a bummer, Skip. Your options seem limited unless you can re-repair your existing valve or find a used one.
Well I dropped the old one off at the machine shop today to have the o ring sealing surface skim cut flat. My friend at the shop said he has cut several of them over the years to true them up. You could see where it had been leaking past the o ring and I figured if they had done all that brazing on the other side they may have warped it just enough for it not to seal up. I want to use the outlet valve I got from Wengers but I am afraid it is isnt right or if that is the inlet side of my machine it may mess something up when I start the machine up.
So I’m wondering if that side with the big metal pipe is the return or supply. The line from the pump comes in on the right side of the valve blocks and the leaking block is on the left side of all the valve blocks. I’m tempted to try it but I don’t know what might happen
Well I picked it up from the machine shop it was warped .020. Hopefully now that it’s flat it will seal up. I will know tomorrow
Well it sprayed just as bad as before, I took off all of the brass found a bunch of big spiderweb cracks. I have removed all of the fittings and am making a 1/8 thick doubler plate to cover the entire side and I will TIG weld all the way around it. Then I will TIG weld it all the way around the edge of the bushing thats in the bolt hole and re drill the hole. I`ll keep you posted
Well my goodness. What a pain.
If it makes you feel any better, I had to remove my valve bank 3 times before I got my leaks fixed.