No data plates. I need parts and I need to know what marine 3208 I have.
We've been here before. See this thread, specifically Post #29 on Page 2. It might solve a lot of problems. If there is no data plate the Serial Number should still be stamped on the block at either of the mentioned locations. HeavyEquipmentForums
Another thread on the same subject - HeavyEquipmentForums
Aye, Matey, Oh’ yeah. What Nige said. I recall those threads . We had a good time chatting about 3208’s and 3160’s from times of yore. Probably an early 75V. Tell us about your craft. Is that a shrimp boat? Oyster boat? What’s her name? Been in any sick hurricanes with her? Can you talk like a pirate?
It looks to me like a 320HP 3208T, turbocharged, but no aftercooler. Should be a 01Z serial # prefix.
Electrics look like they need some TLC. Joe H
My least favorite cat engine 3208. I never liked working on them.
Meh, I didn’t mind working on them as a dealer tech. It usually meant big work orders, high adventure, and lots of overtime.
What does not liking them or working on them have to do with identifying what model it is?
Were these little V8’s in those Cat 615 elevators years ago? I think I worked with one.It sounded lovely,but nobody seemed to like those engines?
Yes, I can't remember if it was a 613 or a 615 though. I hardfaced the paddles on one. Edit. Corrected to 613 and 615.
The engine started off as a Ford request to Cat in the mid-60's to build Ford a lightweight high-speed diesel for the medium-duty Ford trucks. Ford were concerned that other truck manufacturers using GM Diesels and Cummins were beating Ford truck sales around, because Ford wasn't offering a lightweight, economical diesel engine option. In the engines first appearance in 1967 in Ford trucks, the engine was painted Ford Blue and called the "Ford V636 diesel by Caterpillar". The "636" was the engine cubic capacity in cu ins. They were engineered to haul a maximum gross weight of about 70,000lbs, and they were designed as a "throwaway" engine, with parent bores. Fast forward to the late 1960's and Cat started selling the engines to other truck and tractor manufacturers, and calling them the "Cat 1100 series". They were cheap, popular, relatively light in weight - but they only had 2 piston rings and the engine had a big crankcase blowby collector mounted on it. The 2-ring pistons were called the "low-friction" design. Fast forward a few more years and the engine, in all its varieties was getting worked hard in many applications, and under loads it was never really designed to do. They gained a reputation as a "hand grenade" engine. I've seen quite a few of the early engines with blocks well-ventilated with conrods, and the engine started to become looked-down on. They also had a number of design shortcomings such as poorly-designed water pumps and oil pump suction pipes that were too small in diameter - which lead to oil pump cavitation on cold mornings. So ... Cat engineers set to and did some major redesign on the engine, improved the water pumps, enlarged the oil pump piping, designed heavier conrods, produced turbocharged versions with 3 ring pistons, and did various other engine-strengthening improvements. They were then classed by Cat as an "industrial" engine, and Cat started using them in numerous applications in their own product lines. Cat even started a 3208 remanufacturing line, where they rebuilt around 35 x 3208's a day. Eventually, the engine went into dozens and dozens of applications, and the upgraded version succeeded better than the earlier versions. In the marine versions, they went up to 435HP! In the marine environment they performed quite well. Relatively little shock loading on the engine, clean working conditions, and mild operating temperatures all helped the 3208 become a popular boat engine. But the "hand grenade" reputation dogged them for decades, and then the ever-tightening emissions laws saw them reach the end of their production life in the late 1990's. However, a lot are still going, and they provided a lot of owners with satisfactory service, and relatively cheap running costs. They were good on fuel. Someone else with a lot more knowledge than me, will probably chime in soon, with more comprehensive information on this little engines history - or correct me where I'm wrong.
From what i remember, the in between evolution was the 3145 and 3160. I believe they used the port&helix injection pump whereas the 3208 used sleeve-metering. I also did some valve spring updates on early 3208’s
Hopefully the OP has a good look in the two possible areas where the Serial Number should be stamped (see thread linked earlier) and finds what he is looking for. If he doesn't then down the rabbit hole we go again.
I had 3208 s in our Vibros for driving piles. They were great . the new Vibro i have now has this Cat C 4.4 ,its a P. O.S. compared the 3208 when trying to run the same hammer.
I think it was 1145 and 1150, once Cat adopted the 3000 series numbering system they were all 3208 but I am not an authority on the subject.
Being around the water and doing my fair share of 3208 inj pumps, I’ve never seen one that was over 210hp w a turbo.. The inj pump has stamping on them.. look from the back TO THE FRONT.. the stamping is on the LEFT SIDE, between the 4 outlets and the flat cover.. U might be able to take those # to cat or a fuel inj shop and have them tell you what it is..??
I used to have a couple 3208's, and no serial #'s. It would help to know what parts you are needing, because a lot of the parts cross to any 3208, while some are specific depending on HP. Some things- such as a oil cooler gasket set, the cat man couldn't look up without a serial #. I simply found a serial # from a engine set up like mine, and used that to order the gasket set. The engine had a reman ID number straight from CAT, but that was no help getting parts. So any info that you can give on your problems, will really help the guys on here, to identify what you need and what resources are available.
I have seen old ones at 225 HP, non turbo. 250 HP turbo was the usual truck engine rating.
Have never heard of Cat providing 3 ring pistons. They came from the aftermarket. IPD and possibly another company had the 3 ring pistons. If Cat had them you would certainly think they'd use them in their own equipment like D4H's, 943's, 953's, etc. and other machines with a 3208 like the 235 excavator. Seem to recall marine spec. 3208's with crazy HP ratings much higher than the truck engine variants. Parent bore block does not necessarily equate to a throwaway engine. Was at a seminar at a Ford tractor dealer and they claimed it is less expensive to rebuild a parent bore block (boring oversize) than a sleeved engine. Ford had some good diesel engines that were easier on fuel than a lot of others.
I mostly worked on the high hp, E rated pleasure duty versions. Because more HP is mo betta, right?. Because they were always broken. Some of the dive boats would be lucky to get 500 hours out of a pair. Same with the military. Have to pull up a parts book. I thought Cat did supply a three ring piston for marine. That was a long time ago. ?
What happened to the OP? We scare him away? I wanted to hear about his boat.
Specs on the Marine 3208 ...
I thought over 400 HP but didn't post it because I didn't have anything to back it up. I figured some wise *** would call me out. Thanks for confirming it was a ridiculous number compared to other applications the engine was used in.
Yes, I couldn't imagine the 435HP 3208 was a long life engine. I think Coaldust's experience of around 500 hour engine life must be about right. An engine for the 60 foot flybridge cruiser set, who want to waterski behind the cruiser. In the Dec 23, 2009 edition of Engine Builder Magazine, a guy named Roy Berndt wrote the best and most informative article about the 3208 that I have ever seen. He described all the engine variations and types, and handed out all kinds of tips on rebuilding them. I kept the link to the article on the web, but in the last few years, the article gradually disappeared - and worse, the great comparison photos disappeared first. I'm annoyed with myself that I kept the text of his article, but failed to download the photos. So, if you want the entire article, you'll have to source a copy of the print magazine to find it.
I remember that article. That was a great trade journal.
I had three Ford dump trucks with 1160 engines plus I had the service manual that went with them. The manuals showed the 1145, 1150 and the 1160 engines. All three engines in our trucks had V8 fuel injection pumps installed. Two of them were really great engines for the application. The third one was a little newer and had some kind of automatic advance mechanism on the injection pump drive. It was a bug killer when first started in the morning. I remember when the 3208s came out with turbos. I was told by a couple of dealer wrenches that the turbo was to keep the smoke down and added little to nothing as far as horse power. I remember IPD bragging on the three ring pistons and that Cat wouldn't use them at that time. I also remember Caterpillar suing IPD for their marketing about making better parts than Cat. IPD lost the suit and was never the same again. I replaced one of the 1160 engines in one of the dump trucks with an exchange from Cat for less than the IPD parts cost to rebuild the engine. The marine horse power ratings are based on duty cycle ratings. Boat engines that have the proper screw, or propeller to you land lubbers, will never get to the point of pulling that high horsepower for more than a couple of minutes. The horsepower is used when starting out and continues only until the speed reaches the efficiency of the water going through the screw. The problems come into play when the boat owners want to go faster than the hull is designed for so put on a longer pitched screw, not knowing that the hull design will only let the boat go so fast. A displacement hull can only go as fast as its length. Basically, the boat will cause a bow wake that lengthens as the boat speeds up. When the length of the wake reaches the back of the boat, the stern drops and the bow is pointed up hill. Now you can add more speed to the engine, but the boat is going up hill and all you are doing is burning extra fuel for no reason. Now put that boat in rough water and have the screw come out of the water going over a large wave and then catch the water again and that high horsepower goes into the drive train and things get broken. Designers can beat this by making a planing hull where the back of the boat is lifted above the water. The problem with that is the weight of the engine means it has to sit farther forward in the boat which takes up usable space. There are lots of designs and lots of engines with high horse power for marine main propulsion but duty cycles are most always very low. I have some friends with boats which have high horsepower and all basically cruise at 8 to 12 knots even though the boats could cruise at twenty. Sorry for the long post. I hope you find what you need for your engine.
You can see in those charts above that the high HP models are only for planing hulls.
The history of the engine nomenclature is coming back to me. I'm not sure when Cat changed to the "1100" series nomenclature, but it must have been not long after Ford started using the engines, maybe a year or two. The 1140 was 150HP, the 1145 was 175HP, the 1150 was 200HP, and the 1160 was 225HP. None of these early engines had turbos. Then Cat produced the next version of the engine (early 1970's), with industrial applications - the "3000" series. These went, Cat 3140, 3145, 3150 and 3160. Basically the same as the "1100" series, but the "1" was replaced by a "3". The HP ratings of the "3000" series were the same as the "1100" series. Some farm tractors started using the engine - White and Steiger come to mind. The engine appeared in some Cat machine models and in Towmotor forklifts. The 1140, 3140, 1150 and 3150 all had 4.5" bore and 4.1" stroke, for 522 CID. The 1160 and 3160 and the 3208 had 4.5" bore by 5.0" stroke, for 636 CID. I seem to recall it was about 1975 that the name for all HP sizes of the engine, simply became "3208". The smaller cube engines were dropped from the lineup, and turbochargers appeared on the higher HP engines - with aftercooling for the really high HP marine engines. At this stage, 2 ring pistons were still being used. The 3208 gained an entirely new front engine cover. Early turbos were by Schwitzer and were mounted to a riser that bolted to the block, then the turbo bolted to the riser. This meant the Schwitzer turbo sat really high and required a lot of engine bay clearance above the engine. AirResearch came out with a compact turbo specially designed for the 3208 that sat low in the engine valley, making for a more compact engine package. The turbo designs are not interchangeable. Early injection pumps were an inline "straight 8" shape and used the Scroll injection. Later engines used the Sleeve-metering injection pump, which had a cast body in the shape of a V8. I understand the Scroll pump was more durable, but emissions laws and a desire for cheaper manufacturing saw the change to the sleeve-metering fuel system. There are numerous sizes and styles of injectors and injector lines, according to engine output and application. I also STR that around 1981 another round of engine redesign took place (I'd have to look through my Cat service bulletins to find this exact info). I believe this redesign produced a steel camshaft with roller lifters, and the turbocharged engines finally got 3 ring pistons. The 3208 got a heavier, thick-cheeked, steel crankshaft. Early crankshafts were cast iron. The 1981 upgrade saw heavier rotating internal components installed, and the oil and water pumps were beefed up. Turbo blocks have oil squirters for oil-cooled pistons, the NA engines didn't have the squirters. Apparently you can come across NA blocks that have the squirters, but they're plugged. There are 3 different conrods for the engines, with the turbo conrod being the heaviest design. According to Roy Berndt of Engine Builder Magazine, Franz Riesterer of Reviva Engines in Minneapolis is the guru of Cat 3208 reconditioning.
In the NH combines in the mid 80’s, 250 was the rated hp at about 2600rpm
IPD came out with the 3 ring pistons around 1984 which I believe is well after most of the development of the 3200 series engines. They were developed to solve a problem and were/are a better piston than Cat produced. If they were sued I'm curious what the actual lawsuit was about because IPD continued to market and sell the 3 ring pistons. Cat isn't without problems, they had a few judgements regarding C13 and C15 engines. One judgement was for $60 million. As far as IPD parts tctractors gives them very high praise. Coming from him holds some weight too.
Probably the smelliest, bring tears to your eyes, most acrid exhaust ever.
Warmed up they were ok but cold they were terrible.
This is all I can find - the information is undated. "Tractor Co. of Peoria, Illinois and Industrial Parts Depot, Inc. (IPD) of Los Angeles, California have reached a settlement of a lawsuit filed earlier this year by Caterpillar in the Federal Court in Chicago. Caterpillar's lawsuit sought damages and an injunction for statements made in advertising and other publications of IPD which were alleged to have been incorrect and misleading. The terms of the settlement call for a cash payment to Caterpillar by IPD in an undisclosed amount, as well as entry of a Consent Decree permanently enjoining IPD from making statements which indicate its products meet or exceed Caterpillar's specifications. The Decree also enjoins IPD from making statements in its advertising claims relating to a comparison of its products with those sold by Caterpillar without sufficient testing to support those claims, and requires IPD to destroy or replace any existing publications which contain objectionable statements."
Little known----The rock song Smoke on the Water by Deep Purple was about small V-8 cats and salt water chevys.
Back in my lever pulling operating days, I always refered to them as 32 oh nothins. First was around them in 613's. Had been used to the sound and smell of the inline 4 in 7E's, and the inline 6's of 8H's and 9G's. To me, the 32's smelled worse than a Detroit in a bus, and just didn't sound like the Cat's I loved. Hated them then, don't miss em now.
They were much better than their competition the Detroit 8.2 on the smoke and other reasons. 8.2 also ran over 3000 RPM even turbocharged for less HP. 250 HP 3208 truck motor had a high idle of 2400 or 2600 or something but had a nice torque rise and seldom actually ran at the top of the band while moving down the road, 8.2 was like any Detroit always at maximum RPM although the 2 cycle howl was not there.
Very true. The 3208 has stood the test of time and the ol’e 8.2 is just a oil stain on history. I did re-powers with 3208’s to replace 8.2’s.
The 1160s in our trucks went to 2,800 RPM as I recall. The trucks had 5 and 4 transmissions and you had to use every gear when the truck was loaded. These trucks only ever crossed paved roads and I don't think they would have gone more than 55 miles an hour loaded.
I incorrectly listed a 235 excavator as having a 3208. I meant a 225. Might be why they were never as popular. As far as the lawsuit it was to do with Cat not liking IPD claiming their parts were better without specific tests done to substantiate the claims. That is understandable. Despite that the IPD 3 ring pistons have proven to be an upgrade over Cat pistons.
You got that right about the eye-watering exhaust. I have a GMC 7500 rollback with a 3208 in it. When I traded for the truck, it had a new stainless exhaust that dumps out right behind the controls. If the truck outlasts the exhaust, I am going to put a stack on it. I traded a scrap dealer friend for it by weight. It is a rough old truck I wanted for the 12-ton rollback bed. I planned to put a better truck under it, but I've had it almost 10 years and the 175hp Cat runs great and sips fuel even though it can't get out of it's own way, and the truck rolls straight and stops on a dime, even with the holes in the floorboard. For a truck I use once a month, I'll probably still be planning to upgrade when I retire.
No charge for the mechanical air conditioning
The 3208’s were a hell of a lot better than the 3116’s that replaced them. One place i worked at had a plow/sander truck square body with the 3208 and another one a year newer(new cab style) specced the same with a 3116. The 3208 would run circles around it with less trouble
the 1100 /3100/3208 series seemed to be ideal replacements for the big gas Super Duty engines. Pretty much the same operating rpm range and although they did have some weak areas, they were much more economical to run, with less downtime. Although, if you kept your foot into a 534 and kept it wound up, it would really pull. Almost as good as an I-H 549. We had a Bean high pressure pump on a C900 with a 534 in the fire dept. 800 psi at around 2000 rpm. Seemed like the exhaust manifolds were see through at night. We did start a grass fire with it once.
We had one on an old fire truck before my time that was reported to start grass fires with the flames that shot out the tailpipe going downhill with the throttle closed and backfiring. Ford 534.
Ah Ha--the fire department was really a fire bug .
That was back when guys rode on the tailboard, so they could see the flames and fire real good especially at night. Highway 20 also had a vertical canyon wall for the flames and explosions to bounce off of, at the time.
The thing to love was the nose dives under the hood to pull injectors. Memory? at least 32 or so years ago??
I still have a pencil nozzle puller, somewhere.
I made a five pound slide puller to get those things out of the heads. What a poor design, they were always packed up with carbon.
I’ve got the traditional 5 pounder, and the little one for sneaking under the firewall or deck plates with.
I have a bunch of 3208 tooling. I should peddle it.
In C series Fords they were not so hard to get at but the front could be tough. There were some short belts on the power steering or something that could not be changed w/o unthreading the fan clutch from the front of the crankshaft since it did not drive off the water pump, or was there an idler up there? Fan was real low for vacuuming grass and leaves efficiently. It was no fun getting a wrench on that clutch.
Water pump belt 3126?