I'm planning my 1st oil change on my recently acquired D6D. What is the best to use, a Synthetic Oil or Standard 30? If Synthetic, what would you recommend? My Location is Atlanta, Ga. 1978 Cat D6D Serial Number 03x00729 Engine 3306 Transmission Direct Drive 2P1519
Synthetic is a waste of money on an engine as old as your IMHO.
I run it in everything, but I get T6 5w40 Rotella for about $20 a gallon. Helps when it's -30* too. Delo 15w40 is about the same price.
I think you should declare your interest in that you work for an oil distributor. For most normal people a synthetic is not a logical choice financially. The OP is based in Georgia where I suspect the temperature never gets down to +30 let alone -30.
I get it from Amazon
We may get a week or so in the upper 20's. But below 40, I'm probably not working those days. The engine a have is fairly strong, and I hope it will last a long time. To that end I'm open to using a synthetic or not... ?
Why 30 weight oil? 15W-40 is the most common for diesels. Straight weight was generally recommended for the old Detroit 2 strokes.
Hell below 40 is nice working weather, maybe not the 30 and below.
Let me ask you this. How many hours/year do you expect the machine to operate.?
I would never put synthetic in a older engine and i would really think about using it in a newer one . Sometimes new and old tec dont work well together . Its to much of a experiment putting it in a older engine .
Once we figure out the oil question then there is the filter . . .
Your 3306 was designed to use an oil that meets API oil categories, CC, CD, CD-II, and CF. These are known as "detergent" oils and contain multiple additives to assist with the oils lubricating performance. These oil categories have been in use since around 1960, but are now classed as "obsolete" because the newer categories produced since category CF, have replaced them. All newer and current API oil categories are "backwards compatible" with older oil categories. Synthetic oils have become popular in recent years because of their superior performance under harsher operating conditions. The major difference between synthetic lube oils and regular lube oils is that the base oil for regular lube oils is refined by distillation from individual batches of crude oil - while synthetic oils are produced via "catalytic cracking", whereby a catalyst is used to create a cleaner and more desirable base oil. Individual crudes differ greatly in the level of undesirable chemical ingredients and steps must be taken in refining to reduce, refine out, or chemically alter the undesirable ingredients in the crude that affect the performance of the final product. Crude oils are blended from various sources and countries to try and reduce the impact of the undesirable chemicals in the raw crude. As a result, there is always some level of undesirable chemicals in the base oil produced from straight refining - whereas the base oil from catalytic cracking is purer and has virtually no undesirable chemicals in it. This base oil, used to produce synthetic lube oils, is essentially "tailored" in its production to achieve a highly desirable level of hydrocarbons that makes a superior-performing oil. Base oils, regardless of their origin, are then modified again with at least 7 additives. The main additives are: Anti-oxidants Rust and Corrosion Inhibitors. Viscosity Index Improvers. Anti-wear (AW) Agents. Extreme Pressure (EP) Additives. Detergents. Dispersants. Anti-foaming Agents. Straight grade oils are very basic oils, and can't cope with big variations in temperature. Multi-grade oils have "viscosity improvers" added so the oil can keep a steady viscosity over a wider temperature range. Viscosity improvers added to oil are long-chain polymers that have the curious property of becoming more viscous when cold, and thickening up when hot. This is the opposite of oils properties, so the VI's enable the oil to stay thicker when it's hot, and to help stop it getting really thick, when it's cold. Synthetic oils are "high performance" oils and they are designed to cope with a much wider range of harsh operating conditions than regular refined oils. They also have higher levels of additives, and in particular, potent detergents, designed to keep high performance engines operating under heavy loads and harsh conditions, clean. Since the advent of low-emission engines, piston and ring design has altered to allow more pollutants to go down past the rings and into the oil - rather than out the exhaust into the atmosphere. This results in lube oils designed for use in low-emission engines needing a lot more additives and higher levels of detergents, to cope with the additional pollutant load. The important part to keep in mind when selecting an oil for an older engine is whether the oil has a high level of detergents and other additives that will strip out beneficial carbon buildup in the older engine - and damage older seals that are often hardened and less flexible. Beneficial carbon deposits assist in ring sealing and in oil seal sealing in older engines - so if you strip these out with a current variety of high performance lube oil, you will start to see increased oil consumption, increased blowby and more oil leaks. Finally, the synthetic oils cost more because catalytic cracking is an expensive process, as compared to straight refining. My choice would be to use a multi-grade oil, such as 15W-40, which covers a good temperature range for your region, and to select an API grade that is CH-4 or older (some manufacturers still produce CD, CE and CF grade oils) - and keep away from synthetic oils that are unnecessarily expensive for your older tractor. It would be advisable to try and find out what oil category was previously used in your tractor, so you don't replace it with a more potent one, that is going to essentially "clean out" the inside of your engine, and cause problems. API Oil Categories | API Explore API oil service categories and classifications for gasoline and diesel engines. Ensure proper protection and performance—view current standards today! www.api.org
You will find more external leaks in an old engine and it will probably burn more if you use fully synthetic oil. I used synthetic in one of my old engines for cold starting at -30C but it used more and leaked more than when i used conventional 15W-40 during the summer. But, it definitely started easier at -30C
No answer to this question, but here's my take FWIW........... The engine oil change frequency recommended in the O&M Manual is "Every 250 Service Hours or Monthly". Working on the premise that you're not going to be clocking 250 hours/month then you will be on calendar-based oil changes rather than hours. Even if you stretch the oil changes to every 2 months or even 3, I'm guessing that the oil you drain will have very few operating hours on it. Based on all the foregoing, why would you even consider an expensive synthetic oil.? All you're doing is pouring money down a black hole. I'd second the comments above from @OzDozer and @56wrench as well. My call would be for some SAE 15W/40, probably API-rated either CF-4 or CG-4. Heck even a CD-rated oil (as recommended by the 03X-prefix D6D O&M Manual) would do the job if you could find one.
I was working as a mechanic for a Cummins dealer in the mid 80's when 15-40 came out. Cummins published a booklet called "A Technical Overview Of Oil Consumption" It was required reading for all the mechanics. I don't recall the details but 15-40 oil was brought out to address oil consumption. According to Cummins single viscosity oils would cause a carbon buildup on the pistons that would lead to polishing the liners which caused increased oil consumption. The newer SJ CJ oils differ from the CD oils in that they will not damage the DPF if an engine starts burning oil. The CD oils will. I can't see why you could not use 15-40 in your 3306.
I don't know of any outfit that changes oil monthly. Most shops here do 400 or 500 hour OCIs.
For an 'old' engine like your D6D, I would just use a good name brand regular oil and not worry about synthetic. I don't have experience with putting high grade synthetic oil in an older engine as I just use standard oil. I can't validate that adding synthetic oil will cause leaks, additional consumption, etc. but logically it makes sense.
We changed our oil twice a month, but then again our stuff was probably clocking 600 hours in that time.
300 hours every 2 weeks is possible if running close to 24/7.
Yes to all the above but I'm assuming the OP (like me and a lot of us on here) is using his old iron about 300-600hrs a year, or about 5-10% the rate of the production folks. If I clock only 300 hours a year (average 25 hrs a month), what % degradation in my oil can I expect from sitting a month with only 25 hours of engine wear/combustion by products/heat/etc.? That's 10% degradation according to 250hrs of time between oil change -- OR -- 100% degradation from time. I think the real amount of degradation is somewhere in between and much closer to 10% than 100%. And it has a lot more to do with weather cycles where moisture/condensation/etc. infiltrate an engine just sitting there. Time and use are the two factors to be considered but I've never seen hard data that oil just sitting in an engine significantly degrades over time.
I don't think the oil degrades, especially if the engine might only sit for a few month's. If equipment is parked over the winter month's most people aren't automatically changing the oil in the spring. I had an old pickup sitting for about 10 years. A guy was interested in buying it so I checked the dipstick. The oil looked almost new. I'm sure any condensation would get burnt off pretty quick once it was started. You'd definately want to change the oil but the oil in it is certainly good to get the engine running again. Sitting a few month's I wouldn't change the oil if it has low hours since it was last changed. On a diesel it can hard to tell looking at the oil because it turns black almost instantly in most engines.
I think you meant become "LESS VISCOUS" when cold? -------------------------------------------------------------- viscous adjective 1. having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity ---------------------------------------------------------- The old cats used what I remember as a series 3 oil. Straight weight 30 mostly. Multi viscosity oils have less load carrying capacity, because a very thin oil is used then the poly modifiers added to that. There is a good reason you will never find Multi viscosity oils used in Locomotive engines, large marine engines, large aircooled radial aircraft engines, and detroit 2 strokes (recommendation from the manufacture) . I suppose I could also include some high performance race engines as well. And back in the day of quality Briggs and Stratton engines they were against multi viscosity as well. If you have to use a multi vis oil. I'd use 20W-40 or 50. That is a warm state?
Everybody else in the world is going to fill it with Rotella T4 15W-40 and send it . . . but don't do that, we can take this thread to at least 6 pages!
Kirkland (Costco brand) Diesel Motor Oil made by Warren Distribution is also a pretty cost-to-quality product.
I've got a D6C and use 15/40 in it. Question ... I need to change torque converter/transmission oil. Book calls for 30wt. Is that still the protocol or has it changed for the older machines ?
I'd suspect it's still the oil you use but the new Cat TO4 spec. will be an improvement over the original spec. TO2.
The protocols for oil types and weights have changed enormously just in the last 25 years, let alone the last 50 or 60 years. Use the current oil recommendations for the temperature range of the area you live/work in. New, improved additives for oil are being discovered regularly, and improved oils are what has allowed the development and production of todays high performance engines.
Pricing for TO4 in 5 gallon pails is quite reasonable, at least at my local Cat dealer. Only a few bucks more than “tractor” grade oil sold at Tractor Supply. Well worth it IMO.
I bought it from Sinopec for $90.00 a pail, it was however delivered to my door for that price. Did I pay too much?
No.
90 bucks delivered is a good price.
Sure. I meant doing oil changes based on time vs run time. A monthly oil change would run a guy $1500+ a year, which would be crazy if it's something that might see 100 hours a year.
Oil is a combination of many hydrocarbon chemicals, which the industrial chemists in the oil companies try to make as stable as possible. However, many of these chemicals - especially the additives - are designed to react rapidly to the presence of undesirable chemicals that the oil comes into contact with - particularly, water. If water in any form comes into contact with the oil, then the additives designed to deal with and neutralise water (and the byproducts of water - such as rust), will start to activate and thereby reduce in quantity. Any moisture introduced into engine oil compartments will start to react with any bare metal surfaces it can find, and any number of compounds in the oil, that are a by-product of combustion. Thus, we have sulphides, nitrides and other undesirable compounds in the oil that can form sulphuric acid and nitric acid when water reacts with them. When this happens, the other additives that are designed to neutralise acids start to react with these compounds, and are gradually "used up", or contaminated by them. Moisture gets into engines that are laid up, via condensation - especially if you get wide temperature variations between night and day in your area, or if your local climate is hot and humid. Condensation and water that has not been in reaction with the oil is driven off by heating, when the engine is run up to operating temperature. So the best thing to do, to avoid oil degradation and engine corrosion problems when a machine isn't being used, is to run it up to operating temperature every few weeks. This runup will also spread oil around on splash-fed surfaces that need the protection of an oil film. Oil very gradually drips off camshaft lobes and gears and other surfaces that need protection, and it's important that an occasional runup puts an oil coating back on them. Oil companies often put out recommendations for oil changes based on calendar time, set to accommodate the very worst conditions that they can envisage. Of course, it's helping their sales levels if they advise changing your oil every few months, even when the tractor hasn't been used.
I don't think I ever quite understood it that way . . . Thanks for taking the time to spell some of this out, it's very helpful!
No, not even close if you're thinking about using a 30wt engine oil. We used to use engine oil in the TC/Trans not that many years ago but the oil formulas have all changed. As mentioned by others, use a CAT rated oil for your transmission or one that meets or exceeds the CAT recommended oil. Modern emissionized engine oils will ruin your transmission. Hope that helps a bit.
The local Cat dealer are probably the cheapest place to buy oils around here. For example a 20l (which is a litre more then 5 US gallons) container of 15-40 or TDTO30 in US$ is around $80. I see Cat even make a universal tractor transmission oil. I will be getting some of that for our John Deere stuff from now on as it is a hell of a lot cheaper then what we have been paying for petroleum company name brand. When you think about it, engine oils you want slippery for lubrication. With transmissions that have wet clutches, you want an oil they is not slippery on clutch plates, but slippery for gears and bearings.
Thanks for all the input guys. I went with the 15/40. But, I did come across some futuristic oil with ceramic in it on Amazon. Way to expensive, but the science is interesting.. FYI: TriboDyn TRI-EX 2 Full Synthetic SAE 15W40 Oil with Ceramic Coating. Any body know about this stuff?
I’ve ran 15/40 in my older D8H/K tractors for 30+ years.They wouldn’t do more than 5 or 600 hours a year for the last 20 years though.Same oil went in the transmissions too. I’ll point out that they get fresh oil and filters in the engine every month when they’re busy though. Transmission oil dropped and changed every couple of years. As for my newer D8R/T D9T kit,I go by the book on oil specs from Cat and keep engine oil and fuel filters changed strictly at 250 hours. Oil and filters are allways purchased from Cat,however my older Cats get oil from local suppliers.
Remember that 15/40 is a top Cat Oil. But remember Cat filters are a must.