Cat 3406C PEEC s/n: 4CK13021 Talked about this engine some last fall. Up until today, this truck has been running quite well. The idle has always been a little lopey, maybe 50-100rpm up and down, but the power while driving just fell off a cliff this afternoon. First load was fine, plenty of power, easily kept up with traffic. On my next load, I noticed it cutting in and out, almost stumbling, struggling to build boost like it wasn't getting fuel. Then suddenly, full boost (19psi according to the gauge on dash) and pulled strong again. Empty, I noticed a little of this stumbling, but the truck had no issues keeping up with traffic. Its like something electrical turning on and off almost, where it would try to take off like normal, then just cut to reduced power, then back to normal, then cut to reduced power almost like someone was flicking a switch. Once rpms built up, it seemed to 'kick' in and build boost just fine. Third and fourth loads were the same, but the fifth load though, the truck fell flat on its face. It started out sorta ok, but then fell off and just wasn't getting the fuel. I could only go about 40mph in 6th gear. I got to the elevator, dropped my load, and nursed it home. We had a bad set of storms come through right after I got back, so nothing has been looked at yet. I have just started to do some Google searching to educate myself. Fuel filters are pretty recent, and our fuel quality has never been an issue so not a suspect, yet. I know anything is possibly though. This engine did get fuel system work done 2-3 years ago as it was getting fuel in the oil. Michigan Cat rebuilt the injection pump, installed new injectors, and they also replaced the fuel transfer pump. That was a drawn out ordeal, but they eventually figured it out and resolved the issue. So, thoughts? Where to start? I'm suspecting electrical with how quickly it was cutting in/out when it started to fail, but I don't know anything about the electrical on these engines.
My guess the boost sensor in back of pump/transducer. There is a hose running from manifold to transducer, make sure it's in good shape. If boost sensor has issues on a PEEC or any for that matter the engine has no way to tell if it's getting air or not. Code 25 IIRC was the one on the last 4CK I worked on over 23 years ago. Sensor tells ECM. I know the one I worked on at the time ran one minute and gutless the next. There is also that little plastic arm in the timing advance in front of the pump that can break and cause all kinds of odd behavior. My best guess 04.
I would also check transfer pump pressure and for junk in the tank. And for bubbles on the fuel return. It could be sucking air. Old truck with old fuel lines You must have the last PEEC engine still on the road. With PEEC still installed.
All the PEEC one's I've seen have had a model B pump installed. As rare as the PEEC is, the old B pumps are probably not as available as they once were.
We've owned this truck for about 8 years now, another farmer owned it for 10-12 years before us until he passed away. I don't know the history before that, but you can see faint lettering on the door from the previous farm, and the company before that. It doesn't have very many miles for a 31 year old truck. Given it's age, the truck is pretty tight, shifts nice, and drives straight down the road. Only bad part is the Volvo dash has crapped the bed and needs the circuit board repaired. I use a GPS speedometer for now, but I'm planning on pulling the dash apart and getting the board fixed this summer. I've read about converting it to a B model, but I don't know if that's much of a possibility without buying a donor engine to rob parts from.
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So I ended up hauling 2 more days with this truck, but due to scheduling, it never ran over about 2 loads either day. I would get to truck, fire it up, let it build air while doing my walk around, 10 minutes or so, then off to the elevator. First load, truck ran like it should. Pulled strong, built 19psi boost under load, ran speed limit readily. Go back to bins, load again, head back to elevator - ahh, stumbling problems are starting to creep in again as truck is fully warmed up. Had trouble pulling some of the longer hill that usually aren't noticeable. I took a short video clip so you guys could hear what I'm hearing. Audio isn't the best, but in the clip, I'm flat footed on the throttle in 6th gear and you can hear it cutting in and out while slowly losing speed going up the hill. Then as I crest the hill, it finally takes off and builds boost again to where I can shift up. I'm certainly thinking this is an electronic related problem. It is not all the time, engine ran strong when cold, and the longer you run the truck the worse it steadily gets. This truck had IP work, new injectors, and new fuel transfer pump installed a few years back due to fuel in the oil and some incompetence at CAT in diagnosing the actual source. I don't know exactly what they did to the IP though as I wasn't full time working here when they dealt with that issue.
Start with fuel filters
I think it’s starving for fuel. Low transfer pump pressure, plugged filters, junk in the tank, bad fuel lines, sucking air. I’d check for air in the fuel return with a sight gauge.
My grader did some weirdness on me while on a hot job. It has 4 filters when I first pulled them the first 2 were completely clogged. As in rusty flakes of metal clogging all the holes. Replaced everything. Twice. Still running weird. It would be OK, Then loose power then catch up. I took of the last filter at the pump.. it had almost no fuel in it. After lots of sweating crawling cussing and who knows how many times I removed the filters, I figured out that pickup line at the tank had a buildup of flakes in it at an elbow, cleaned it out with a piece of wire and back in action.
Blow the lines out backward from transfer to tank listen for bubbling in tank. But I just got off the phone with my ex cat mechanic friend --he agrees with boost transducer issue and possibly rack sensor. Back of pump has to be removed to change transducer so he said anytime that has to be done it's wise to change rack sensor. Plus the fact it's a 4CK he said if you wanted to go with a full mechanical pump you need to find one from a C model mechanical, those were the last of the Mohicans.
I agree it is fuel related. I know tanks are clean (I've seen the bottom recently), and fuel filters are only 9 months old (tractor sees less than 200 hours run time a year). I have not checked for air bubbles in return line, but I will look up how to do that to verify. If my filters were plugged, it never would have ran right after June 13th when it fell on its face and ran really bad. The next day I ran it and it was like it never had a problem until it got fully warmed up. I've run into dirty fears before. Once they start plugging, they don't clear up. We had an 8770 Deere that had trash in the tank and changing filters was a never ending problem until we cleaned that tank out. That was always a slow developing loss of power with a bit of surging as filter packed off with debris. This is like someone is flipping a switch and you instantly lose the power, and then it comes right back like nothing was wrong.
I can blow the lines out this week sometime. I was going through ebay, looking for a PEEC Service manual for truck engines. I'll have a good read through that before I go taking anything apart so I don't go in blind. I've found a good manual has been well worth the money spent in understanding how something is supposed to work.
Have fun!
I have a PEEC manual. My 4CK is dead, so it won't do me any good.
PM sent
I having never messed with a peec before just heard the tails. Would it be of poor fashion in this case to make it a mechanical
I think it's just an issue of finding the required parts as TS noted. Its a 30 year old engine. Parts aren't as readily available as they were 10-15 years ago
I lived through the chaos, known as PEEC. It was a dark period of time.
Have you checked batteries individually? Ran into similar problem on dump truck. One battery was bad.
I have not. Engine starts very quick and without hesitation so that wasn't even a thought in my head.
Parts could be a issues I've been keeping a eye peeled for a b lately for a freind of mine there's alot of blown up ones local that could donate some not saying t he advance or governor doesn't need a rebuild then the parts problem comes to play. Is the peec sensors and such still available I wander
When I worked for a Ag company, they owned two 4CK's. Both rated at 350 hp. Both needed rebuilds so at that time I scrounged the C manual parts and converted both to 425 hp. That was in 1999, the engines were 1993 model year and T-600's. One was wrecked so I bought a 91 cab & hood and made a T800 out of it, moved all the dash & interior. At that time I really had no issue finding the fuel system parts--now days I don't know.
This is a 350hp variant also. I'd love to update it to a 425hp variant, but it really isn't necessary for what we're doing. If I had to do a rebuild, that would be a different story I suppose. Speaking of the high horse 6NZ's, there's a local hauler here that has a T800 high hood with a 6NZ tuned up real good. He's pulling a set of doubles and licensed for 161,000 lbs Gross. Hauling out of the field, it isn't hard for him to be over that figure. His truck flies. Empty, loaded, it doesn't matter. She scoots. I pulled out behind him one day last year and he flat walked away from me grossing more than double what I was.
Maybe maybe not. If you have Algea in the fuel. I had some that was hard to see. More than likely it is what some of the others have said. But if you end up chasing your tail because you did not start out with the basics then....
There was a old school trucker that lived in Milton Freewater that had a 93 Pete 379 with a mechanical N14. It was painted purple-we called it the circus wagon. Gayle my old partner in the shop had a extremely turned up 3408 in a 1986 359 Pete. I remember Gayle saying {You know that damned Donny Luissi and that circus wagon was the only one who could give me trouble} That N14 quoting Gayle was running well over 700 hp, allot of high dollar parts. There out there, most don't live long though.
Making power I wander what these 2 made for fuel mileage probably hear the tanks trying to implode when you put it to the wood