New excavator owner here, looking for some advice. After transporting my excavator and angling it to crawl onto the trailer I believe my turntable is leaking hydraulic oil through it. Was hoping to get some feedback as to what is the likely culprit here. I ran it for a while before moving it and there were no leaks. Is there perhaps something that could have tilted during transport that this could not be an issue? Or is this leak just expected with this age of a machine and I should just top off the fluids as I lose them? Turntable leak - https://photos.app.goo.gl/qj4gjfBhx1GD3xL18 Swing drive motors - https://photos.app.goo.gl/CzhhLNCrijHugHGq5 Swivel motor - https://photos.app.goo.gl/DjYmTYXELJfyjC867
Take this small cover off And see what's in there. It should only be chassis grease. If it's water on top, the rubber boot on the swivel is leaking. If it's hydraulic oil, check both swing drive gearbox dipsticks. If either one is low or high, report that back here.
I need to pressure wash this thing and get it cleaned up. Once I do that I'll take off that cover and report back. I didn't even know there was a cover there The dipsticks looked good on the swing drive motors - https://photos.app.goo.gl/3edTQWU2EgZ474Ay9 I didn't see any way to check the swivel motor (i think that's what this is?) - https://photos.app.goo.gl/iSo5w43G9QZQdNT8A I did crawl underneath and take pictures inside the turntable, not sure if this helps at all. https://photos.app.goo.gl/Ai7DJToz7WKPFun56
If a swing gearbox is leaking "hydraulic oil", then the swing motor output shaft seal is leaking, which will overfill the gearbox, which "should have" come out the breather. For now, verify what's in there via the access hole, and routinely check swing gearbox oil levels.
Appreciate your help. I will take a look in the AM.
I would suggest that you remove the cover first. If you find water on top of the grease underneath it you can’t be 100% sure whether it came from the washing or was there before you started. Either way as HMC stated the presence of water is an indication that the boot on the swivel is leaking.
Good day Not to cause alarm, we have seen water ingress through cracks in the superstructure, in addition to missing studs and failed seals. Kind regards Uffex
Heading out to the excavator this AM. How would I check for this?
Inspect access hole first, then ask more questions. Then the bigger questions can begin.
Don't start to panic before there's a reason to. Look at the simple stuff first.
Good day I would suggest a real good wash down as a start, follow any cable / tube runs look for missing clamps. Some machines have seals around the swing drive & central joint - be sure these are fastened down correctly. Cracks as a general rule will originate in welds, whilst less probable, it's wise to check those out. Kind regards Uffex
So I tried pressure washing this and can't get out the water. What's the trick? https://photos.app.goo.gl/CzF362bA7oqkwXRU7
So I lifted the boom and drained it. Here's what I found. https://photos.app.goo.gl/A1X9sWnoPQb382pq6
That is the pinion and ring gear tub. Did you pull the plate off the bottom end of that tub. You access it from the big hole underneath the machine directly in the center of the carbody. It is a plate like the access you removed to get at the top. The debris will drain out from there.
I was referring to this one. Which, it would appear that, you've found.
Pretty sure that's the one I took off. Right below all the hydraulic lines that run to the boom. https://photos.app.goo.gl/qLnqBh7fxmEogTcE9
Somewhere down here? https://photos.app.goo.gl/FdMg2rTcrh4VizdC6
In the second picture the plug below the T fitting which is on the bottom of the grease pan. Bad Bob
Thank you sir.
Aha! https://photos.app.goo.gl/ojumaeDS6cg1bqK58
That's for sure the cover I took off. What is weird is when I tried to grease that zirc it immediately shot out underneath the zirc so I thought it was full. Does this whole thing need to be drained? Looks like something mixed with grease.
Take the top cover off swing the machine over the back end and lift it up with the bucket, take the plug out and drain in a pan. If it doesn't drain well, you can flush it with diesel or solvent. When its clean you dump a bucket or more grease in the top hole check your service book for amount. Bad Bob
The grease zerks threaded into the swing bearing are for the bearing itself, not the tub inside. Regardless of what you find I'd replace the grease in that tub, it looks nasty.
You do have a manual for it i assume.? If not you really ought to get one PDQ.
I just got the machine. Manual is on the way from Ebay. Says 2 weeks out.
Got it thanks! So that is the swing gear as referenced https://photos.app.goo.gl/NB4SF3jARkhQNPQdA 11 gallons of multipurpose lithium grease nlgi grade 2? I'm not following when you say to take the cover off and lift it with the bucket. The bucket swivels the same as this hole. So this hole will always be in the same side as the bucket. Hence lifting the bucket is going to push the fluid in the opposite direction of the hole.
The drain port is between the swing boxes. It is access from underneath the machine.
I don't imagine this sludge is going to drain well. When you say "If it doesn't drain well, you can flush it with diesel or solvent." is there some type of spray solvent that will help perge this area? Or when you say flush it with diesel should I plug it back up pour diesel in there and let it clean up then pull the plug again? What's the most effective way to do this?
Right, we're still talking about the same one Bad Bob helped me identify? https://photos.app.goo.gl/Nb7CSTgfomr4qes37
Are these machines designed to just hold rain water etc on top? https://photos.app.goo.gl/egY4i4QBVfrZZJAB8 Or do I have some type of drain hole that is clogged with grease preventing that top area from draining?
That's a shame. If you'd asked you could've had a link to download a pdf version of the O&M Manual within 5 mnutes. Priced around $50.
OK. So you really have three issues here. First, the area around the swing boxes is holding water. This area drains through holes and gaps deliberately left in the fabrication when the assembly was built. There holes do get blocked up pretty quickly though and need to be cleared with your pressure washer. To get rid of the water so you can see what you're doing you will need to park the machine on a slope with the bucket downhill so the water runs out of the front. Second, this water is entering the swing gear cavity, in all probability through the rubber boot around the swivel. You need to replace this before you attempt to address the third problem. Third. The water has washed out most of the grease in the swing gear. The plug identified in your photos drains this cavity. Remove the plug and allow what water and cr@p is left in there to drain out. Then install the plug and put several gallons of diesel or light oil or whatever in there through the square hole at the front. Swing the machine for a while, drain it then rinse-and-repeat until the cavity is as clean as you can get it. Then refill with the approved grease.
Sounds like a plan. Appreciate the advice sir.
This is the correct line item for this gear, yea? https://photos.app.goo.gl/cVMSURm9nut9hAZa9 Is this a common grease I can pick up from somewhere? Or do I have to go to cat? Also, I've never cleaned anything out with diesel gas before and don't want to do anything stupid... So I empty this swing gear and fill it with say 5 gallons of diesel and spin it around, about 5 times? Then drain it? The friction won't spark a fire or anything?
Yes, that's the correct item and no, you don't have to get it from cat. Diesel isn't as volatile as, say, gasoline. Very unlikely to be a fire risk IMO. (YMMV)
To be clear, I believe Clark is talking about the ring and pinion gear area. Some people here refer to the swing gear as the motors and reduction gears. I also believe it will take a lot more than 5 gallons.
That upper deck area of the house fills up with all sorts of debris, especially in the woods. I have had much better luck with "dry" cleaning that area first with a scraper and shop vac and your hand where you can reach it, rather than pressure washing. If there is enough junk up there you tend to block those intentional gaps and drain paths rather than clear them, and you sure end up wearing a lot of gunk from the back blast. Once the bulk of it is out, then the pressure washing goes better. What Nige said is definitely an outcome of pressure washing, injecting water into the tub past the leaky boot. Often it is the build up of gunk that defeats the boot seal, by piling up where the water would normally drain away from the boot. Often nothing more than a good cleanout is needed to get it working as designed again.
So I opened the plug and drained what I could. Then I tilted the whole excavator to drain more. Capped it back up and filled with 5 gallons of diesel. https://photos.app.goo.gl/aojtAPcgP5a9BRs89 It looks pretty nasty in there. I'm going to let this sit over night then drain it again. I don't want to break anything. So how long should I be swinging it around to get this gunk out of the gears? Also I didn't top it off so the top part of this gear is not covered. Not sure if this is necessary?
I don't think you have enough liquid in there. I would aim to get the level about half way up the ring gear. How long to swing for? Who knows? Keep going until it's as clean as you can get it. The idea of letting it sit overnight is a mistake IMO. You should drain it asap after swinging so the crud doesn't have time to settle out again. All that said, with respect you're wasting your time cleaning this out before you've fixed the water ingress problem.
I appreciate the advice. I live in Arizona and it's not very wet out here in the desert. I figured I could clean this out this weekend. Then I could order the rubber seal from cat on Monday when they're open and fix this next week.
You could take a string mop or a stick with a rag wired on it and stick it down the top hole . Have someone hold it and make a dozen or so slow turns and open the drain hole. While the machine is picked up let it drain 6 or so hours . leave the machine jacked up ,close the top hole and drop the plate on the bottom of the house frame right behind the swing bearing under the swing drives. now you can use your pressure washer to clean under the swing drives and up under the boom foot. The tub doesn't have to be surgically clean just the water gone. You will need 2 pails of grease and a few tubes to refill thru the top hole . put in a couple of hand fulls and swing a little and add more till you get it all in. Bad Bob
So that's a huge machine what are you using it for?
Well... I definitely didn't need one this big. I've got a 1/2 acre of land in Northern Arizona. I'm going to dig out a basement, dig out some tree roots, and move some boulders. I'll sell it once I'm done. I had a Kubota Mx5400 which was undersized for what I was trying to do. I found this excavator at an auction for $15k( https://www.ebay.com/itm/204132036730 ) . They seem to be selling for average of $45k. So I had a Cat tech check it out. There's a couple issues but nothing that seemed like I couldn't fix or deal with. Seemed like a good deal. So now I'm just researching as much as I can and trying to get it up to par before shipping it up north. Most of the filters and fluids seemed relatively easy so now I'm just trying to get all this done so I don't have to pay to ship it back down to work on it. Truth is I have no idea what I'm doing but seemed like a good challenge. My goal now is to get through this job and not kill myself.
Do you know where I can download a digital copy of the manual for this while I'm waiting for the other one to ship?
You never posted a machine Serial Number but let me see if I can walk you through the process. 1. The machine Serial Number is the last 8 characters of the 17-character PIN plate located on the front RH corner of the upper frame. It will be something like AMDxxxxx or 6XSxxxxx. Note the first three characters of the eight. 2. Go to - https://catpublications.com/ - when the popup appears click on "Continue as Guest". 3. Type the three characters from Step 1 in the box and click the Search button - I used AMD as an example. Those characters are known as the "Serial Number prefix". 4. Look down the language filters on the LH side and click the English option. 5. I ended up with 4 results. The first one was the O&M Manual SEBU7367. From that point it's no different to any other online marketplace. Obviously you want the download option. The publication number you end up with will most likely be different to the illustration below. There are over 30 different models of 345B, and probably half a dozen different Publication Numbers for O&M Manuals. You need the correct one for your specific machine S/N prefix.
4SS01066
For that S/N prefix Search directly for SEBU7029.
Downloaded today, thanks!
So I went to cat today to purchase this rubber boot for the swing gear. The guy informed me this is not a rubber boot but a Loctite product identified as #4. I just wanted to confirm how to correctly apply this. 1. Clean up the area around the swivel motor 2. Remove the bolts. 3. Apply the product underneath. 4. Put the bolts back. Is the swivel motor under any type of hydraulic pressure or any danger in just simply removing this thing? Also, am I underestimating the weight of it and after removing the bolts is it going to be a nightmare to lift up? Just looking for advice before I dig into this.
FYI, the swivel is rotary manifold. It allows oil to go from the rotating house down to the carbody to run the travel motors. It is very heavy in that size of a machine so you don't want to be taking it loose.
What you need is items 9 and 10, and if your bolts 7 and 8 are a bit crusty, you may as well get them.
We should also clear up some terminology so we're all understanding each other. The swivel is item 1 on your picture, also known as a rotary coupling, rotary manifold... The items that make the machine swing are known as the swing drive or swing box or swing drive box or some other local variant on this theme. Note that most excavators smaller than yours will have one swing drive. To add to the confusion, each swing drive has a swing motor sitting on top. The repair will consist of disconnecting the hoses that go to the top of the swivel, removing the reaction bar, removing the bolts and hose clamp that hold the boot and removing the boot. The swivel will remain in the machine. Clean everything up and reassemble in reverse order. You should buy new O rings for the hoses as well.
Is the swivel boot a big job? It looks pretty simple to me but I may be way underestimating it. Looks like a few bolts. Lift and replace...? Also, from other pics, it looks like this metal top bracket may just be loose. Does anyone know where these port/vent holes are for water to drain out of this entire area? I've cleaned up the front pretty good and I'm still not seeing any. It's hard as hell to get behind these swing drive motors. There may be holes back there. But I'm not sure how anyone gets back there to clean this area out. Also, looks like it might just be this top metal bracket being loose. Perhaps the whole boot doesn't need to be replaced?
You can't just lift it out, because of the hoses on the bottom side, and, also, the other side of the swivel is attached to the carbody
Ok, so I spend the entire day mopping out this swing gear, moving ~40 degrees, mopping, etc etc. sprayed it out with brake kleen on each pass, Then finally dumped diesel in there scrubbed some more and dumped the whole thing. So I get the 12 gallons of grease and start slobbing this stuff back in. My hands felt like they were giving birth to a baby elephant. Complete mess... Now I get it all put back together spin it about 20 times and then I see this coming out the side. This was all pressure washed and cleaned up. Is this indicative of a bigger problem? Or could this just be all the gunk that I was cleaning out falling out of the vent holes?
Is this the undercarriage? And is all this plastic the same piece as the top? https://photos.app.goo.gl/jg4LKDpSMuxghZFN6
Yep, that's the bottom of the swivel.
I wouldn't bet on it. Level wise, how deep is the grease? The bottom of the pinions should be just leaving swirl marks in the top of the grease.
Looks like another Alien Abduction. Something about these big excavators? There's a dead Volvo a few miles from here, I can't stop myself from wondering every time I go by. *** do I need another project for............... Joe H