opinions on if these are over rated? also how effective are they? Are they relatively east to grade with?
I'll be the first one to jump in and say yes, they are way overrated. I will probably be the only one. We have one on a 953C, it's excellent for clearing and grubbing trees, and some demolition. But, it adds a lot of weight to the front end, when loading trucks it tends to tear the grade up worst, it cycles slower, bucket capacity is less, and dirt builds up in it more than a clean bucket. Trying to grade, its only got about a third as much footprint flat on the ground as a regular bucket, and its got those dam shoes on it that always gouge into the ground if you're not careful. Plus there's more hoses to blow and grease zerks that won't take grease. I can do everything I need to with a regular bucket.
They have their place. I think it depends on what machine they are mounted on. I have run them on backhoes, and track loaders. The backhoe version seems worthless to me. They add too much weight, and the bucket itself does not seem like it would hold up well to abuse. To me, the shine on a track loader. There are so many little tricks with one that makes them well suited to a pipe crew. You can open the clam and use the upper portion to drag dirt of the spoils pile. This really helps with mixing dry and wet material together. A big help when you are using your spoils for backfill. You can partially open the clam to grade a road for your stone trucks. This allows material to gather in the partially open bucket. You can carry this to fill in ruts, or low areas, or even push dry material into wet spots to help bridge or dry things out. You can tip an empty stone box on its side, open the clam and lift the box. This gives you a wider stance which will make carrying the box more stable than with a regular bucket. My personal favorite is using it for lime/cement stabilization. A lot of the time when we started, the ground was too wet to drive our spreader trucks. So we would use the track loader to begin. Pick up a bucket of lime get to your wet material, open the clam slightly, and track along until you were out of material. Repeat this until you have a big enough area to run your Cmi, viola ground dry enough to build a road on, or dry enough to run your spreader trucks on.
I've got one on my skid steer and I wouldn't consider being without it. I can clean up a pile of dirt leaving just a couple shovel fulls for hand work, move debris, I've clamped on to stumps and yanked them out, they peel sod real nice opened up and dragging backward. If I could have only one attachment for my machine, a 4 way bucket would be the one. I've used them on backhoes as well and while not used as often in this application, the same jobs are easily done. I think where they shine is in final cleanup, they cut hand work tremendously.
I have not used one much myself but in working with a fellow contractor who has one pretty much full time on his S300 bobcat I would have to say they are a very good tool. Like Steve said if you only had one attactment for a skid loader that would be it. I've seen Mike use his 300 with tracks doing things that one could only dream of doing with another machine and doing rough digging right down to finsh grade. I'm not sure how good they are on a larger crawler loader or backhoe but will say they are nice on the skid loader. Trbo
I think that a "4 in 1" bucket on a backhoe is a great additon. I feel that everything that Steve said about the "4 in 1" bucket on his skid steer goes for a backhoe as well. Our 655e has a "4 in 1" with fold down forks and I would not want to be without the versatility that the combination provides.
we use our backhoe's for an "all around machine".So with that said the 4in1 bucket just makes it that much better. AS far as not being able to handle abuse, well you should not be abusing a machine anyway but I have used them very very hard and never had a single problem with them. I never grade with the blade part, it is to hard to maintain a nice grade. we mostly use it as a clam,moving stuff around the yard,buckets,debris,etc. I would never by a backhoe without one.
never used one. trying to get dad to buy one, that and new forks for our 410g
I like my 4 in 1 for 1 reason. The dirt that I work in is extremely solid. I cant seem to get through if I am trying to grade so I use the blade part and I am able to move material. If I don't use the blade I cant take off any more then 2 or 3 inches off the surface. Other then that I have no use for it.
We have one on a 310SG and I don't care for it. It came with the machine when we bought it used. If I were to order a new machine I would get it with a normal bucket. To me it would not be worth the extra money.
In my younger days I demo-ed a new 943 w/4in1 and saw my dad run a Int. 125 with it alot, but he did'nt want to spend the cash on a machine that would sink in softer ground from added weight. Same goes on a skid-steer, if you wanna add to the bucket go for a grapple it'll open up all kinda work. A backhoe-loader is a little different, I do a ton of sewer and water repair and with the smallest possible crew, those jobs are the only place I miss a 4in1. Anywhere else and I could'nt justify the added cost or weight.
I have one on my skidsteer, on my skiploader, and on my backhoe. I wouldn't be without one. The more you use one the more you find you can't do without it. You pick up little trick ways to use it, saving time and accomplishing things otherwise impossible or very hard to do. I do have a regular bucket for my skidsteer as well, and of course there are jobs where it shines over a 4in1. Sure it is a little heavier, but on the front of a backhoe that is a good thing. Although I could list many uses not already mentioned, I will give an example of a recent job where it came in very handy. I had a customer that needed some rocks from about 6 inches up to 18 inches or so. I happened to have another job that had a pile of decomposed granite that ranged from fines to about 18 inch rocks. I could take all I wanted for free. I used the 4in1 bucket, opened it about 6 inches or so, rocked it back in forth a couple of times so the fines fell out, and then loaded the rocks. It took about 30 minutes to get a full super 10 load with a nice variety of rock sizes and hardly any fines. I find its uses far outweigh its shortcomings.
I've used them and they can be handy for some operations. I think they are probably better suited for smaller machines however. The larger ones I used almost always had problems with the bucket cylinders leaking off and the hoses always seemed to leak, besides breaking off pretty easily. If all I did was load out dirt or gravel, etc, I would stick with a standard bucket.
In the right places, worth their weight in gold on a backhoe. Use them to clean up last bits of material on asphalt.Easier to heap loads on high sided trucks. I think the dozer part is useless except for handleing road plates. Trick I learned was opening up the clam, running the chain over the top down to the plate which rests against the dozer part. This way the plate isnt swinging around. Like said there are downsides but if I had the option for one Id probaly take it especially if the machine does alot of work on the road.
is a 4 in 1 bucket good for grading?
I think it is, for rough grading atleast. I have one on my old ford 555, it came with the machine, and like others said I would not have ordered it that way, but thats what i got. I have goten good at grading with it. I dont have a dozer, and of course this cant replase one. but on small jobs that I do it works fine. I do think you loose alot of volume with these buckets over a regular one. and it works great for brush, stumps, and rocks!!!
4 in 1 buckets are the only thing to have, best thing since sliced bread. We run a 1972 941B tracked loader, witha 4in1. We have welded a scaffold tube to the top of the bucket so it is plumb in the bull clam position. We then mount a visual machine cotrol receiver an Apache F4 I believe. It then says if the bucket is high or low. Our oldest driver can grade to within 5mm with this which is as good as any laser fully automated system on the market, without the receiver he can grade to with in 10mm. He has driven them all his life though. The 4 in 1 means that you can controll how much you want to cut off in one pass from a few mm's upwards. All you have to do is crack open the clam shell a few inches then roll the bucket forward or back to controll how much the cutting edge takes off. The front clamshell rubs on the floor and the cutting edge follows behind a little lower or (higher if spreading) at your set height. They are indeed a fine grading tool!!!
I like that trick, I will have to try that when the ground thaws!!!! oh yea the work great for plowing snow to!!!!!
Unless I was dedicated use, loading stone or dirt, I would not have a machine without a 4 way. Moving trees, stumps, cleanup... just too useful. I have a 210 JCB tlb, 4 way bucket adds at least 50% to it's abilities.
I think 4-in-1's are not as common in the States as in Europe and Oz. In the UK it's rare to see a tracked loader without. The first Drott (100B) I drove didn't have one, but every other tracked machine I drove has had one until a prototype I've just put some hours on. Some buckets fitted to IH machines in the 70's (I think made by Rubery Owen) had a tendency to crack the yokes but the IH made ones never suffered from that over here, and there were thousands about. In the UK on road construction it was common until Accugrade/Trimble came along for tracked loaders to do the final trim on the formation, capping and sub-base instead of using a grader. Advantage is when you have a bow wave of material in front, you just grab it and load it into a dumper and use it further down the spread. I've been grade checking for a 953 and a grader on the same job, and the grader was about 50% faster, but the finish was the same. I've trimmed to +/- 6mm (quarter-inch), no laser, and it's like anything else, when you get your eye in, you can hit grade all day. A tracked loader and 4-in-1 can grade into some awkward corners, and pull material backwards when you get over-enthusiastic on the cut. Also if you're careful, it's surprising what you can pick up and move in the clam. As for those flip-over forks they fit on backhoe loader 4-in-1's, they should be outlawed. They pull the bucket out of shape, you can't see the damn things properly, and if you put any weight on them the whole machine is soon unstable. The number of times I've seen packs of bricks or blocks flipped by them is nobody's business. Only downer for me about a 4-in-1 is the loss of capacity when you're on a balls-out loading cycle. On a 963 the standard bucket is a full UK ton lighter than a 4-in-1.
We have 4 in 1 buckets on all 8 of our bobcats. We even retro fit a bobcat 4 in 1 bucket to our yanmar v4 loader. Our New holland 90.B backhoe also has a 4 in 1. Very handy for Pad work, trimming and cleaning up spoil. For the backhoe it's great for breaking up hard stock piles to make it easier to pick up a bucket without slamming the machine into it. Rubbish and spoil pick up is where they excel tho. Some of our operators can clean up a site without getting out of the machine. Like some of you have mentioned...opening it up and dragging material away from a fence line is also a very handy tool.
I have one on the brothers farm and it is useless has not graded a thing in the 10 years it has being sitting there , absolutely useless but I wont move it until has the job done ,I'd be stubborn that way ,sure it can't even keep the weeds down around it.....bloody useless ! Stock
Comparing a 4in1 to a GP would be like comparing a Swiss Army Knife to a kitchen knife. It simply has many more uses. I regular do house pads to 1/4" with the 4in1 and have no problem levelling. I don't find the Cat 4in1 has any down side to levelling as against the Cat GP (the reverse really)...I have both, but the GP really only gets used as a mud bucket (concrete or mortar). The technique to master with the 4in1 is with raising a level. Run forward with the bucket practically on the ground (say 2" off) crowded forward slightly and cracked open. This meters out the soil but the inside edge blades it off as well keeping the machine running on level ground. Then run backblade past the grade stake to see how much you have come up (if you haven't already nailed it). This method keeps the area level as you bring it up....start level, finish level. If its a production load out of trucks you shouldn't be using a 4in1. Its an expensive piece of kit and loading all day is not its job. I'm still finding ways to use my 4in1 and I hope I never stop.
:IMO anybody who thinks they are over rated has not used one for what it is intended. I agree 100% with Johnny. This picture from my 953B thread shows exactly what he describes. Picture rolling the bucket forward or backwards and imagine what the cutting edge will do. My dear friend you need to connect it up to something
I find the 4 in 1 is perfect for seperating different materials aswell. Sometimes perfectly good rubble may be up against a truck load of balast.. then you can almost get 99% of it the first go by scraping it off the other material with the 4 in 1 opened up and used as a scraper. As long as all 3 cutting edges are worn evenly (or still there) then trimming and grading should be a walk in the park with a 4 in 1.
After owning both backhoes w/ a MP bucket and a GP bucket, I would never tell anybody to buy a GP bucket again! We have them on of course a 963, 420D, 420E, and our little Kubota 5030. Grading...its a dream with it. In all honesty if you can't grade with a MP bucket then your just not doing it right. Its awesome for smoothing up material that have ruts in it, being that the bucket is in front of the tracks/tires it'll keep the ground your running on smooth and you won't have any dipping. It adds excellent weight to the front of a machine too. ESP if you have like a rear mounted motor like a 963, or a backhoe to keep the bucket on the ground and tires well planted.
I grew up with out 4n'1's but the 580 I run every day has one. Best thing since sliced bread. Makes life much easier especially on the road.
Can a 4 in 1 be added to any machine?
I have one a CAT 416 and I love it. I wouldn't buy a backhoe without one. Excellent for picking up brush removing/picking up stumps and backblading.
Short answer Yes! but it will need an extra hyd service to operate it and will also be adding extra weight to the front axle if a BHL, if a trackshovel I cant imagine any major problems that a bit more weight on the ass wont cure. If you talking, skid steer I would expect the same.
The 4 in 1 bucket I have for the bobcat is my favorite attachment EVER and I'm learning new and creative ways to use it every time I use it, and I use it for absolutely everything! Here's a picture for you all to enjoy, I'll take more next time I'm home!
Great pics spitzair, another perfect example of one of its hundreds of uses. :notworthy For the inexperienced just be careful not to overload one side of the bucket when grabbing like shown. A nice equally sized log like that is perfect. :thumbsup
How hard is it to add an extra service? Or do you have to replace the existing valve?
directional diversion valve These are used on front end loaders for grapples and such like, the divert the flow from the tilt function to opening and closing the 4 in 1 by means of a push button on the lever. Simples no.
i love the 4in1 on my cat 216 , can't see me ever not having one, i have two for it now . teeth and a cutting edge. i can see they wood be good on a track loader too.
I agree with surfer-joe. If you're predominately using the loader as a loader then a standard bucket is the tool, loads better, holds more material, material rolls into the bucket better. However, for things like sewer and water, general clean up, landscaping or base and asphalt work its pretty hard to beat. Kind of like a Crescent wrench in a tool box. Handy as heck for lots of jobs.
I like mine, pretty much self explanitory..
They have a lot more pros then cons if you know how to use it. I have done a lot of demo with 4n1s. And on pipe job ETC where you may have to clean up several piles of material they are priceless.
Yeah, Dozerboy is right. The 4-in-1 just rules for demo. It's great on a wrecking machine. What kind of stuff have you demo'ed with the 4-in-1, John? You got any pictures of that?
Sorry for the very slow reply, I think Stock has about covered it for you though. You really need to know what services and options you have on the machine. On one it might be a piece of cake and cost very little on the other hand if you only have a standard valve block and every service is in use then it could prove too expensive. Normally where there is a will, there is a way it will depend on how much you want to spend and how professional you want it to look and operate.
I hate running a machine without the 4 in 1 bucket it is so useful and i can get so much more done with this bucket faster. depnds on what you are using the machine for but a must have for me.
Can one of the MOD'S add a poll to this thread? . I have one but rarely use it, we will use it on the ToolCat once in a while because it dosnt lift very high and you can through that floor forward and dump,......outside of that i dont like it because of the weight it add's and the capacity it cuts down. when I am working I want to move as much material as I can, and when I need to pick something up, I use a Grapple. I am just a right tool for the right job kinda guy, BUT! after reading about a few of you maybe I will try to run with it more and see if i can make it usefull. I have an opinion about the same on BHL machines too though. but that's for another thread lol Pj
Hi everyone. I am new here. : ) I am buying 71 acres (signing contract tomorrow) and want to start looking for a tractor or dozer, etc. I was wondering if you guys might be able to offer me some advice. I need to clear several acres of the property (probably 20-30). There are very few trees I will want to remove, and the ones that do need to be removed are about 10"-12" in size. (The land was cleared and timber sold about 10 years ago). I also want to widen and tidy up some old logging roads and turn them into trails for the scooter. ;-) The 30 acres I need to clear has mostly brush and trees that are 4" or less in size. I will need to also be able to cut grass ongoing once I have it seeded, with a bush hog I assume? Let me know if you guys think I can do this with one machine or if I will need two. I don't want to buy a hunk of junk but I am cost conscious. Let me know what you guys think! Sorry to hijack this thread but it wouldnt let me start a new one. Also, from what I have read it seems like I might want a 4 in 1 bucket. :-D Thanks! Craig
Welcome to the forum Gixxer600. :usa Once you make 3 posts on the forum you'll lose the probationary status and become a junior member, then you will be able to start a thread with your question. Make a few more posts and you'll be good to go.
That sounds good to me!
And it sounds even better now! ;-) I will repost that now if it will let me so ignore it here. : )
See there...your one closer. Keep looking around and post another reply and your all set. On edit: well, you jumped me. After a short time your probationary status will be lifted. Welcome to the forum.
Well I guess it doesn't like them all in one place, I have 3 total and it still is no good. I will go look for other things to reply to. Sort of a silly rule I guess as it encourages fluff. :-\
Well ... I guess you may have been wrong. I have posted 6 times (now 7) and I still cannot create a new topic.
I am a new member also and i agree that it is kind of a dumb rule but if it keeps out spam I am all for it. I posted three then had to wait an hour to get to post actualy i waited till the next day but it works fine for me now. just need more responses to my posts now lol
Patience, my friend. It will happen. This is all by design to control spammers from inundating the website by starting spam threads. It's so "we" can have a forum, not the "spammers" to have a forum. It will happen...trust me.
Ok cool. So any input on my question? : )
A rubber tired backhoe is kind of a do all machine if i had alot of acres to work that would be my machine of choice. Hard to say with out seeing the land and type of work you need to do what would be the best fit for you.
I will be glad to add my thoughts, but I would rather it be at a thread that you started. Not so much for me...but for you. That way it's "your" thread, not someone elses. You have control of the conversation and how the thread goes. Patience my friend.
good point sorry for the thread hijack
Yay it's working! New thread posted!
4in1 Grading Instructions -------- Johnny, Thanks for the grading tip. I tried it today and had great success. I had not discovered this rather simple method, but always wondered just what was behind all the curved contours on the front section and rear blade section of my JCB 4in1 bucket. I would not be without a 4in1, but it is a thinking mans tool, it's for operators, not drivers.
We'll put that down as another forum success then :thumbsup happy grading :drinkup
I am going to reopen an old thread, like six years old. And here is my topic for discussion: I have about 25k to spend for a used backhoe loader and uses will be: maintaining pioneer (old logging roads), installing underground utilities, drainage and culverts, grading, snow removal, and limited logging/stump removal. I have 30 acres way up in the Cherokee National Forest and I am turning this into my own private park. Due to the wetness of the soil and the three dimensional layout, four wheel drive is a mandatory feature. I don't care about an open or closed cab, but.... How much EXTRA should I pay for a four in one bucket? It looks like it would make grading roads easier, ideal for sorting rocks out of soil (rocks are useful for cobble and riprap for stabilizing banks), and awfully handy moving and loading timber. And better at moving snow that a GP bucket. And it looks super for grapping and pulling stumps and would replace a laborer on the ground with a piece of 3/8" logging chain for many land clearing tasks. My wife dislikes being coerced into laborer duties, reminds her too much of growing up on a farm and doing chores with a fleet of green and yellow equipment.
A thumb on the hoe and a 4-in-1 bucket; I'd pay a *lot* extra to have them. Especially for the use that you describe. Hardscaping and landscaping, you will use them all the time. Especially working by yourself. PS Buy pallet forks, and fork hooks for the bucket.
As mentioned 4n1's are not for everybody. Like in high cycle or large volume situations there not practical. However I really like them on crawler loader and backhoe. Once you learn how to properly use one,and all the little tricks That go with them, you can make yourself and your labors life Much easier. I think there a must for city, county, and Dot equipment. Tom
Thanks...do we have a good resource for all the little 4 in 1 tricks? And I have a 62 M37! I just got done repainting the pioneer kit the last week, and put on a new battery terminal and fuel filter. Those are tough trucks. Howard
4-1 handy for quickly moving and placing road plates
Yes. The human intellect, behind the eyes and between the ears... (meant in good fun!)
Yes the M37 is very capable. As far as tricks Jim D sums it up pretty well, "Yes. The human intellect, behind the eyes and between the ears... (meant in good fun!)" Tom