Just when I need it the most, my 40h won't start. I replaced the starter after finding out its bad and still not even a click . I'm not getting the 12V signal to the starter relay . I think the starter lockout relay maybe the problem but at $600 , I'm looking for other possible solutions. I will be cleaning all the connections again tomorrow, my pos battery connection is a bit shetchy but I'm getting battery voltage at the key switch , start button and at the relays . I ran a wire from the start switch to the starter rrelay and from the start button to the relay and not even a click . any thoughts?
Ford, Deutz, or Wisconsin engine???
Ford LSG 423
You say that you're getting battery voltage to the ign. switch, start button & relay. Do you still have voltage when you push the start button? If you have a bad connection you can have voltage but it will disappear when you try to start the machine.
Wait, what? The starter lockout relay is $600? According to the diagram that's just a typical Bosch cube relay, just a couple of bucks from a parts house??? I'm with excavator, stick a test light on every connection of the start circuit. Test with ignition on, and test while pushing start button, look for any instance where the light goes dim/out indicating a loss of voltage. As for the starter lock out relay, if it does have a simple Bosch cube relay, simply remove the white/black wire from terminal 85 of the relay and connect a good ground to terminal 85 of relay, lockout now disabled.
The precision governor starter lockout E-237 is $600 .The black/ white wire from the lockout is only giving me 1.24v . The cube relays I will go over again this weekend and clean all connections . The weather is killing me , thunderstorms everyday.
Ok, the E-237, that part I get being expensive, but don't go there until you confirm that is the problem. The whole point of the starter lockout is to prevent activating starter when engine is running. In troubleshooting your problem I would worry little about this feature, rather I would take the lockout out, figure out my problem, then bring lockout back into play when all things are sorted out, or confirm the E-237 is the problem.
Pfffft.... I HATE electrical lockout systems, they're mostly just dumb and their only reason for being is operators that are dumb.... dumb enough to engage the starter with the engine already running. My preference is to install a key switch with the mechanical lockout in it, once released from the start position you can't crank it again without first returning to the off position. May not be quite as good but they almost never fail and they're way cheap compared to safety relays and timers and whatnot..... okay vent mode off, LOL :Banghead
Maybe my terminology is wrong..... The E237 has the black/white wire going to the starter relay along with a white wire that goes to the ford ignition module assembly. The 12v signal that trips the relay sending voltage to the starter , comes from e237 and or ford ignition module . In the control box , I have ignition on relays, governor idle run relay , start signal relay , no black/white on any control box relay.
I think I may have found my problem . I checked all the relays like is mentioned above and all check out ok. I was looking at the wires going to the starter relay and realized that the wires are warm, I traced the wires back to the coil and back to the yellow power wire . Then I noticed that the ignition coil was getting warm. I figure my problem is something to do with the coil or its wiring . I'm getting 8.5v at the starter relay up from the 1.24 v from before but still not the 12v that I need . Any thoughts so I can look into it more tomorrow?
Not sure what you have there, the diagrams I'm looking at show a Ford LRG423 or LRG425, both with DIS, no igintion coil, rather a coil pack controlled by an ignition module. The yellow wire at the starter lockout relay should go to terminal #3 on the engine compartment terminal strip, there's a number of things get ignition power at that terminal. Terminal #3 gets power from the lower control box at terminal #16. All power in the lower control box comes from terminals 10 and 11 in lower control box, which is connected to battery. You need to start at terminal 10 with a volt meter and go through the circuit looking for voltage drop, work with your wiring diagram from terminal 10 all the way the terminal 3 in the engine compartment to find where your voltage is dropping off.
The wiring diagram that matches my machine : standard (Ford Dis engine W/ hydraulic controls )page 3-36 , 3-37 figure 3-17 , figure 3-18 in the JLG 40H & 40H+6 service manual . When the ignition and key are on , the resistance wire, that goes to the coil, starts to heat up , eventually the coil itself gets warm . Is it possible that the coil has an internal short? I 'll see what I come up with . Thanks
Ok, hydraulic controls is an important detail as that's a different diagram altogether than the one I was looking at. Hyd controls, fig 3-17/3-18, typical JLG with confusing diagrams. That shows a Ford DIS engine, but it can't be DIS if it has and ignition distributor, but never mind that, JLG is bad about making errors on diagrams. Back to our problem. I'm not sure what to make of this just yet as it seems we have a number of things going on. I can't tell at this point if we have voltage drop, or excessive current draw. The way I read the diagram, trying to put this simply, When you turn on ignition it sends power to the anti-dieseling solenoid on carb via terminal 3. Battery power is at NO oil pressure switch via terminal 10, but switch remains open because engine not running yet, no oil pressure. You hit "start", this sends voltage to E-237 via black wire from terminal 7, E-237 allows voltage to go through and exit on black/white wire and goes to the S terminal on starter solenoid relay. The black/white wire powers up the solenoid to operate starter, sends a voltage signal via the white wire to the Ignition Module, and sends a voltage signal via the brown wire to the + terminal of ignition coil to power up the coil while cranking engine. Once engine is running, NO oil pressure switch closes from engine oil pressure and sends voltage signal via yellow wire from oil pressure switch to ignition module and + terminal of ignition coil to keep engine running since the E-237 has now taken power away from the black/white wire going to starter solenoid relay. An ignition coil will get warm when it's powered up, but it shouldn't get excessively hot. If you have something causing excessive current draw, obviously it's not a dead short or it would trip the circuit breakers in the lower control box. I still suspect you have a bad wire or bad connection somewhere causing a voltage drop. The best way to find things like that is like I stated previously, start at the beginning with a volt meter, go through the entire path of a particular circuit until you find the spot where you find a substantial voltage drop.
When I first noticed the wires getting warm , I separated the wire bundle to pinpoint the wire that was warm. On it , it says resistance wire -do not cut or splice.This wire goes to the coil (brown wire) from the starter relay. Is this wire suppose to get warm? or do I have a short or high resistance in the coil? The black / white wire to the starter relay only gives me 8.5v.
If I'm right in how I'm reading the diagram, the ignition coil will get power to fire after the engine has been cranking a few moments and gets oil pressure. So, my point, don't get hung up on whether the brown resistance wire is supposed to get warm or not. Like I said, the only reason that brown wire going from starter solenoid relay to ignition coil is there is to give ignition coil power to start engine while the engine is cranking. You may be wasting your time chasing a rabbit down a trail to nowhere. Your problem is insufficient voltage on the black/white wire that powers the starter solenoid relay. Disconnect the brown wire going to the coil, get it out of the start circuit. Now test your voltage on the black/white wire. If the voltage is still too low (after disconnecting the brown wire) on the black/white wire, continue back upstream with your volt meter. Follow that circuit upstream with the volt meter until you find the point that low voltage no longer is a problem, you'll narrow down your trouble point then.
Thanks , I'll have to wait until next Sunday to get back to the machine.
After all the tracing, the voltage drop problem seems to be in the starter lockout relay . At $600 , I need to find a way to bypass the lockout relay . If I run a wire from the starter button to the starter relay and disconnect the black /white wire from the starter relay , will this give me the 12v signal to be able crank? will this damage anything?
If I'm reading the diagrams correctly, there's a black wire and a black/white wire at starter lockout. Join those two wires together and see what happens. Again, that's if I'm reading things correctly.
Even easier, the black wire should be connected to terminal #7 of the engine compartment terminal strip. Disconnect that black wire. Now run a wire from terminal 7 to the S terminal on starter solenoid relay.
OK, I'll have to wait until thursday , when I can get back to the machine. Thanks I hope it works.
Ran the wire like you suggested , 12.5v at battery, terminal 7 11.76v .Still not so much as a click, could be a bad relay ,this is the 2nd one I've replaced. I can start it, if I jump the relay with a screw driver with all wires connected properly. I need this lift to finish up for this year. I'll work on it when I have more time . Still open for any suggestions, thanks again.