Hi All Great site glad I found it. I have a old 480c that ran fine last year with a slight diesel drip at the pump that got so bad that more fuel hit the ground than got into the engine. went and got a rebuilt one, hoe ran great the 4-5 times I used it . Now though it runs terrible and surges at less than 1/2 throttle & @ 2/3 throttle no surge but no power anywhere . will move foward back very slowly and If I try to pull a stump out the hoe stalls ??? Ive checked for water in the fuel, fluids all up to proper levels . Ive read posts and get that it could be a number of things ,Shuttle ,trans , Hydro pump ,torque converter ,engine timing ,clogged filters, to the injectors went cause of the new diesel fuel . Im completely lost as to where to go since every item is major time investment and im trying to pinpoint where to best spend my time . any help in the direction I should go in first greatly appreciated thanks Ed
When you changed the pump did the shaft and gear have a key to lock them in time? I recently did a pump on a 580 super m and there is no key and after two days the pump slipped on the shaft putting it out of time and it ran terrible, shaft and gear must be cleaned with brake kleen and very dry for install or timing can change. Very frustraiting :canada
Was last winter when changed the pump . pretty sure it was a keyed fitting with timing adjustment thru the flange bolts .pump is bolted up tight . DTC here I come to check the timing . How much off can the timing be before it plays havoc ? ie if its off 2 degrees would that make all the difference ?
Yes even a few degrees will make a huge difference.:canada
Stry, I'd be suspicious also of your fuel supply. Since the 480C tank is above the filters and injection pump, try checking for fuel flow out the final fuel filter, by disconnecting the supply line going to the injection pump. With the motor shut off, see if fuel runs out, it won't be a fast flow due to some restriction in the fuel filters. Check you fuel tank for proper venting. Does you engine start good cold and when you step on the throttle with no load does respond well? If so the timing is probably okay. Disconnect the fuel return line coming out of the top of the injection pump, with the engine idling, fuel should be coming out the special fitting on the top of the injection pump, roughly 4/5 ths of what is going into the pump. There should be no air in this fuel, unless it's from the previous test and then it should clear up. Blow through the line going back to the tank and make sure it's clear. Does your injection pump have a solenoid valve to shut off fuel supply or a pull cable? Phil
fuel flows good to injector pump havent cracked return line yet Has pull cable to shut off . under no load will stumble off idle when applying throttle runs rough till 1/2 throttle at half throttle if floor it most times nothing happens . {full throttle no rpm change} other times 1/2 throttle then I floor it, engine hesitates then runs at WOT and can back it down to 2/3 throttle . soon as I let off starts surging again. Thing is though even getting the motor running at 2/3 power the hoe still has no power to move or work hydraulics with any force . Still trying to figure out , Is the power loss the cause or effect . ie: is the shuttle robbing all the power ,or the pump stealing it all . Im not sure of the relationship between how the power gets distributed . ie : engine - pump -shuttle -trans engine - shuttle -pump- trans engine- trans-pump -shuttle thanks all who write back Ed
It sounds like your rebuilt pump was working good for a while. That why I haven't suggested an external timing check yet. Where did you get the injection pump and do you still have your old one? I'm wondering if it's a governor problem. Do check for fuel flow out the fitting in the top of the pump( just run a line into a can). There is a tiny relief valve in that fitting, it must not be plugged, although I don't think blowing through it with your mouth is quite enough to unseat it(after removal). Check the return line to tank also, by blowing through it. Good thing also to check the air breather system. Check the lever on the side of the pump and be sure when you push the shut-off cable back in, that the lever goes all the way forward. I don't know what would happen if it wasn't. Those cables are a pain to attach. If you believe your shuttle is robbing power, just shift the gearshift on the floor to neutral, to check. The hydraulic pump is driven off the front of the engine, I don't think it would cause any symptoms like this. ATCOEQUIP is our hydraulics expert here, maybe he would add to this. I will post the timing check, I think you should do these basic checks first. Phil
Weird problem...very weird. runs rough till 1/2 throttle meaning what, it then smooths out? at half throttle if I floor it most times nothing happens . {full throttle no rpm change} is engine now running smootly at a "1/2 throttle rpm"? Then when you step on it, it makes no rpm change? other times 1/2 throttle then I floor it, engine hesitates then runs at WOT huh...WOT? did our fuel line blockage just disappear? and can back it down to 2/3 throttle . soon as I let off starts surging again. surging, that's usually a fuel restriction. but if it were, how did we get WOT? I'm with Phil. Run a hose from a 5 gal bucket to the injection pump, that way we isolate fuel tank and lines. If it runs proper then, you've narrowed down the problem. If it doesn't, I'm real suspicious of injection pump governor. I can't remember, do these engines use a lift pump? Been tooo many years since I've worked on one. This doesn't sound like a hyd problem to me, not yet anyhow.
Stry, Wondering how you are making out. I see that you checked for water in the fuel, that's good, it will ruin injectors.To check timing on your 207 engine, my manual says to turn the engine over with a screwdriver, at the timing inspection hole behind the starter, until the pointer aligns with the correct mark. This 'initial timing degree' is probably shown on your valve cover info decal or in an operators manual which I don't have. I'm guessing 8 degrees before TDC. After turning the engine in a clockwise direction(normal rotation) to find the TDC marks, you might have to back the flywheel up, to the align the pointer with the correct # of lines or degrees. This is where the slack in the gear drivetrain has to be allowed for. Continue turning the crankshaft in a counterclockwise direction for a few inches around the circumference, then turn clockwise up to you mark. Remove the timing window on your pump, it's a small plate with 2 screws holding it on, located just behind the metal decal. After the fuel drains out look for the stationary line, and the rotating line. They should line up. If you don't see the other line then you are probably out by one crankshaft rotation and you will have to rotate the flywheel clockwise exactly 360 degrees. Phil
Got my rotation reversed in the last post , so rotation direction is as viewed from the front of the engine looking back. Phil
Hi All Sorry havent gotten back sooner life interrupted .... opened fitting on top of injector pump .there is no ball check in it . after the elbow the tube leads up to the injectors and then heads back to the top of fuel tank . havent gotten any furthur than that . with putting a hose on does it go on the injector pump fitting or the line that is now free that leads to injectors . the ball check is supposed to keep the fuel from returning to the pump ?{ if I had one in place} thanks again Ed
Hi all Been busy and havent had time to get to everything . Finally got back to the injector pump . Ok checked the timing every good nothing out of wack there. opened return line on top of injector pump when running got about 5-10 drips per second with the fitting cracked all the way open then closed that back up and opened the last return fitting between the injector and the gas tank. got about 3 drips per second . at 900 rpm motor runs rough . step an gas pedal and it still will somestimes rev up to 1500-1800 rpm . if bring rpm up to 1200 and hold with column shift then step on gas no increase in rpms . drop back down to 900 and then step on gas I might get an increase in rpm . As for original injector had to return that as a core for the replacement unit cant have more than 20 hours on it even though Its been installed for a year or so . So thats where it stands at the moment .
I think the valve, in the special 90 degree fitting, in the top of the injection pump, should be operational. I believe it's not just a check valve but may maintain a slight pressure in the pump housing. I would replace it. Disconnect your fuel return line from the top of the injection pump and blow through it by whatever means, a 1/4" hose will slide over the end, then blow through it. Take the top off your fuel tank and you will hear air going back into the tank. It must be open. "at 900 rpm motor runs rough". I don't remember you talking about an injector problem, do you have a miss at certain speeds? Have you had any signs of water in your filter drains, now or before? Phil
Sometimes I have to back up and do an assessment of a problem. I've been following this one from the beginning and have had a number of thoughts, but there's one little detail in the original post that keeps being the fly in the soup with this. Ok, this establishes, upon rebuilt pump install, that everything about the system "was" fine and proper, no? So, obviously, something happened. Question is, what? It seems to me we have covered most things that would cause this, blocked fuel line, timing, etc. I can't help but think something happened in the pump. It could be something as simple as the person doing the pump rebuild failed to tighten something in the pump, and after 4 - 5 times of running, it let go. I have no idea if this is so, nor do I know a method of testing. I'm just throwing it out there as a possiblity of what the problem is.
Hi All As of right now it seems to be something floating around in the fuel tank . Had dumped all the fuel and put new stuff in and it ran fine .thought great problem solved . Next day fired it up same old problem crappy running . ***??? Pulled fuel filters again and when checking them this time No fuel from fuel line ...was clear yesterday So I guess when put the new fuel in it must of moved what ever was blocking pipe. but sitting over night object must of settled again causing blockage . At least this time I know the fuel is good and wont have to add this batch to the oil burner tank . Now the question how do I go about getting whats in out? And whats in it that causing it to clog ? is there a wire mesh screen inside of tank? Hopefully tomorrow the mystery problem will be solved . Thanks Ed
Oh yeah, the old "something floating in the tank" problem. Will drive any mechanic crazy. In most cases, it's drain the tank, remove it, clean it out with a hot pressure washer. If the spout is flush with the top of the tank, sometimes the gremlin will wash out with the spout pointing down. If nothing else, after you get it cleaned good inside, once the steam clears you can usually see what the obstruction is sitting on the bottom of tank and work out a way to remove it. Keep us posted.
:Banghead hopefully it ill be a couple of old hundred dollar bills floating down in there.
Finally All done . Back to running condition Thanks to All who helped out. Fuel tank had a couple pieces of spongee like material floating , sinking around the bottom of it . Now if it only wasnt raining so hard here at the moment ....
Well, I'd say your happy as a hardwood tree!