Was looking for a replacement engine for my dozer, it has a cummins 4bt turbo motor 1991 model. I'm far from a diesel mechanic, but have been told about several different configurations of this engine. Was wondering how to tell what kind of injection pump I've got. What's the difference between a p-pump, ve pump, inline & a rotary pump. I've found a reman engine but with a ve pump not sure if that's what I need or not. Any help is greatly appreciated. Engine wasn't this oily until rod came through the side of the block. Lol
Sorry the pics are uploaded sideways.
That is a Bosch VE Injection pump in your pics. There should be a tag on the side of the front cover in front of the injection pump with the engine CPL#, check this number against the other engine to make sure what you get is compatible.
Thanks Greg, but is that front cover the only place to find the engine #'s. Cause I looked for some #'s the other day there & I guess something has happened cause the tags are torn off. Is the any other way to compare the 2 engines? The reman engine I was looking at is cpl 858.
What does the cpl#'s identify?
The CPL means control parts list.. it id's all the parts and configuration of the engine.. The tag on the inj. pump should have the CPL on it also.. And yes.. that is a VE pump.
The B series engines sometimes have the serial number stamped on top of the oil filter housing or the back of the cylinder head. If you can clean those areas off you might want to look there.
My Case 850g with the 6BT has the same style pump. I noticed the other day the throttle shaft is leaking, can the seal be changed easily on these pumps? Sorry to change the subject but been studying on this today.
Im sure thepumpguy can agree, any repairs done injection pumps are risky, expecially if they're in the machine. The other day I was changing a distributor head seal on one of the VE pumps, and ended up braking a pump shaft in half, cost me 700$. Lesson learned, I'm not messing with pumps anymore.
BRO.. did you watch that utube video on doing it ON THE ENGINE?? by using longer screws.. I saw it and just HAD TO TRY IT.. I had the pump out and on the bench tho.. I'v got OVER 30 years doing this stuff.. day in and day out.. and THAT was a tough one.!! 1 half turn of the screw and its toast.. as you probably found out.. I wouldn't have put that video out there.. EVEN IF it worked, I wouldda kept that to myself.. WAY TO MUCH liability..
JS300.. Its doable BUT you need special instructions.. and seeing its a BT you'll need some homemade tools.. The throttle and shaft are splined and can go on about 12 different ways.. Another thing is.. the original bushing is brass.. the shaft is steel.. guess what wears a groove in it.. The replacement is steel/Teflon and must be epoxyd in, to a very specific height.. AND they make about 5 different bushing lengths..
I have seen that video, I actually broke the shaft with the pump out of the truck on a vice. I successfully changed two of the head seals on a VE, using that shortcut where you stretch the seal over the pump head and bolts, then gradually torque everything back down. Last time, it had been a while and I forgot that trick and for some reason I just pulled the whole head off leaving me with a mess of springs and washers, I had a schematic of the components and thought everthing was keyed and lined up proper but when I went to rotate the shaft I felt a little extra resistance, than SNAP!!, I knew something broke. It was actually my friends truck and I was "teaching" him how to R & I the pump from his truck. Can't say we didn't learn something.
I've looked this thing over & can't find a cpl# on it. The injection pump has several #'s put I can't make out which 1 would be a cpl #.
That number on the black and silver tag is the cummins part number for that pump it starts with 391.
http://www.maricopa.gov/procurement/awarded_contracts/pdf/15021-c-cummins-bosch-pump-number-cross.pdf Thats a link to Cummins/Bosch injection pump cross reference. I still couldn't quite figure it out. I noticed two numbers that cross reference and were both on your pump I think.... 3908183 and 0 460 424 024
I THINK,, where they wrote conversion date is actually the cpl.. 749 YUP, the CDC # crosses to Bosch.. the pump maker FOR Cummins.. The only prob. w/using the 0 460 # is.. that pump can be put on many diff. engines w/many diff CPL #'s. It WILL narrow it down CONSIDERABLY tho.. I have a book at work that will cross a pump to a cpl but I don't have access to it..
The # stamped into the side of the pump is just a base pump.. it was converted by cummins to the 391#.. for a specific application..use that # when trying to find the cpl.. I found a site by typing in.. cummins cpl 749 I cant read the 391 # in the pic,, on the black tag.
The site is numeralkod I clicked on cpl conversion for industrial engines
The # on the silver tag is 3913251. I went & looked again just to make sure, cause I was thinking the same as Brodiesel was. So you think the 749 is the cpl #? I can't find any info on the web for this thing. I'm just trying to find a complete reman replacement engine for this dozer. Just can't find 1 that close to home to go & look at it & wanna make sure it's the right 1 for what I need before I make a 3-4hr drive 1 way. Thanks for your help
If the 4bt that I've got is cpl 749, can anyone compare the build specs of it to a 4bt cpl 858? I've found a cpl 858 about 3 hours from me. Supposed to be new reman engine complete with ve style pump. I can't find any info on a 749 engine. Any help please
Are u sure it is 749? Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk
No not positive, all the tags on front cover are missing. On the injector pump it has a black & silver tag that has conv. date 749 & then cummins part # 3913251. Someone on here had mentioned he thought the 749 was the cpl #. But I can't find anything on the web about that cpl #
I'll call my work in the AM and have them cross the pump # to a CPL.. and that will give HP, Peak Torque and RPM.. and I'll have them compare it to the 858.. You really don't want to go DOWN in HP or PT..
I agree with ya there pump guy, sure don't want to hurt myself that way. Less is bad, appreciate you doing this for me. Thanks Brandon_M
No problem.. I've got nuthin better to do tomorrow.. Dr's office called and said the insurance co. postponed my surgery for tomorrow.. They want a face to face w/ my surgeon.. WHAT FOR?? I have 2 ruptured disks and 2 bulging disks and cant walk.!!! Seems like a no brainer to me..?? I'll let you know something tomorrow.. TPG
Oh man, wish you the best!!!!!
Your original CPL is 0730.. 85hp@2500rpm 235peak torque@1200rpm 858CPL 105hp@2500rpm 265pt@1700rpm Hope this helps..
Thank you pump guy so much. Appreciate your help tremendously.